WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.900 [Department of Health and Human Services. USA. CDC] 00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:12.660 [A Centers for Disease Control Production] 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:18.090 [In cooperation with the National Library of Medicine and] 00:00:18.090 --> 00:00:22.920 [The American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene] 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:28.630 [Workers in Tropical Medicine] 00:00:28.630 --> 00:00:34.390 [Lucy Graves Taliaferro, Sc.D., Retired. November 1980] 00:00:34.390 --> 00:00:42.630 [Interviewed by Monroe M. Vincent, Sr. Res. Associate, Dept. of Pediatrics, USUHS, Bethesda, MD] 00:00:46.870 --> 00:01:03.650 Vincent: Mrs. Taliaferro, you've been selected by the American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene as one of the workers in tropical medicine, and we have been asked to discuss the long and productive careers of Lucy Graves and William Hay Taliaferro. 00:01:03.650 --> 00:01:07.670 To begin with, were you interested in science in high school? 00:01:07.670 --> 00:01:15.040 Taliaferro: Yes indeed, I was. I started biology in my second year and I found my niche right there. 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:17.150 Vincent: And how did you get to college? 00:01:17.150 --> 00:01:29.780 Taliaferro: That was a chancy affair, I was slated for normal school, but I received a four-year scholarship to Goucher College from the Alumni Association of Washington, DC. 00:01:29.780 --> 00:01:37.330 Through this happening, I shall always be grateful, as it made the rest of my life possible. 00:01:37.330 --> 00:01:40.290 Vincent: And when did you start your biology courses at Goucher? 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:50.650 Taliaferro: In 1915, and was totally surprised and delighted to be elected to the Phi Beta Kappa when I graduated in 1917. 00:01:50.650 --> 00:01:52.170 Vincent: And what happened then? 00:01:52.170 --> 00:01:58.660 Taliaferro: Another astonishing thing. One day in the laboratory, [Dr. Calicut?] came and said 00:01:58.660 --> 00:02:06.460 How would you like to have a scholarship to the invertebrate zoology class at Woods Hole? 00:02:06.460 --> 00:02:11.130 Well I said, nothing would be nicer, but of course I couldn't do it. 00:02:11.130 --> 00:02:19.230 He said, well, I can give you a scholarship and it would only cost you your fare up there and back. Why don't you write your people and ask them? 00:02:19.230 --> 00:02:21.510 So I wrote and I went. 00:02:21.510 --> 00:02:24.370 Vincent: That must have been a very interesting and important summer for your life. 00:02:24.370 --> 00:02:37.560 Taliaferro: It was. At the Goucher table there were six of us at the laboratory. Of those, Mary Conklin was one. 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:46.790 She was the daughter of the famous biology professor, and Lucille Moore Burns, and Florence [Cyberd?]. 00:02:46.790 --> 00:02:55.670 The last two received their PhDs at Yale in 1923, in biology and biochemistry. 00:02:55.670 --> 00:02:59.200 It was there that I met my husband. 00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:17.690 In fact Dr. Ali is reported to have remarked "Taliaferro, in previous years the Goucher bunch has always seemed bright, but this year they seem to need all your attention, while I have to teach the 100 or more other students." 00:03:17.690 --> 00:03:30.880 Well, William and I were attracted to each other, and as we had found, we were both engaged to somebody else, we thought it was pleasant to date each other. 00:03:30.880 --> 00:03:34.020 Vincent: And then you left Woods Hole? 00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:39.680 Taliaferro: Well, when we left Woods Hole, we never expected to see each other again. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:54.930 But, we corresponded. And he lent me a microscope and some material to help me teach the biology class in the Alexandria High School in 1917-1918 school year where I was employed. 00:03:54.930 --> 00:03:58.340 Vincent: Well, it finally led to marriage, but when were you married? 00:03:58.340 --> 00:04:23.030 Taliaferro: We were married June 6, 1919, and after a week spent in Virginia we arrived at Baltimore, where William had accepted a position under Dr. Robert [Haygner?] in the department of protozoology of this newly formed School of Heigene and Public Health at the Johns Hopkins University. 00:04:23.030 --> 00:04:37.560 Because protozoology was a new subject to all of us, every day was full of novelty. Dr. Welch used to bring people in from all over the world to see the things that we were doing. 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:42.530 Vincent: Well, entertaining visitors and doing all that work, it sounds like you were very very busy. 00:04:42.530 --> 00:05:11.010 Taliaferro: We were. Indeed, at first, I tried to get a teaching position in one of the high schools, but when that failed, Dr. [Haygner?] hired me as his part-time assistant, and the rest of the time, William kept me busy staining slides, washing apparatus, cleaning animal and bird cages, and reading, because I had to learn, too. 00:05:11.010 --> 00:05:19.350 In fact, I began taking an occasional course, espcially those of Dr. Jennings, in genetics. 00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:23.230 Vincent: And what projects did you and your husband work on together for the first time? 00:05:23.230 --> 00:05:37.190 Taliaferro: We specialized on the long-term project, In fact, since trypanosomes were a thread that ran throughout our entire scientific life, I'd like to give you a few background details. 00:05:37.190 --> 00:05:49.640 The word trypanosome is spelled T-R-Y-P-A-N-O-S-O-M-E. Some English scientists call it "tri-pan-osome." [Black slide shown featuring the word "Trypanosome" in green] 00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:53.040 They live in the liquid part of the blood. 00:05:53.040 --> 00:06:02.870 These two trypanosomes, which I'd like to show you, were on a dried blood film, and were drawn with a camera lucida. [Yellow slide shown featuring a sketch of two trypanosomes] 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:08.470 The cytoplasm stains pink and the nucleus stains blue. 00:06:08.470 --> 00:06:21.870 We were so pleased with our stain beauty and grace, that I made some camera lucida drawings of them and some red cells for a lampshade in our home. We enjoyed it for years. 00:06:21.870 --> 00:06:25.060 Vincent: Many of your guests in your home used to admire it very much. 00:06:25.060 --> 00:06:26.070 Taliaferro: Did they? 00:06:26.070 --> 00:06:27.360 Vincent: Yes. 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:37.280 Taliaferro: The camera lucida with its prism and mirror tilted at a 45 degree angle, was indispensable in our work. 00:06:37.280 --> 00:06:53.820 With it, we could see the microscopic field and the drawing board at the same time. Now, when trypanosomes divide, they grow longer and divide into a long one and a short one. 00:06:53.820 --> 00:07:14.640 A dividing population would therefore, be variable in length, whereas a non-dividing one would be more or less equal in length. By drawing and measuring the length of daily samples during an infection we could find out whether the trypanosomes were dividing. 00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:24.910 If they were dividing, but were not increasing, then we could conclude that some factor in the host was killing them. 00:07:24.910 --> 00:07:28.920 Vincent: What were some questions that you wanted asked and answered. 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:36.860 Taliaferro: What we wanted to know was, what reactions occur between a parasite and its host when they get together. 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:39.690 Why do some hosts die? 00:07:39.690 --> 00:07:43.580 And why do others live blithely on? 00:07:43.580 --> 00:07:56.280 In other words, what does any intruder, living or non-living, do in its host, and how, when, and where does the host react to the intruder? 00:07:56.280 --> 00:08:04.110 Vincent: Now this was 1922. Wasn't it rather early for a protozoologist to be asking such questions? 00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:15.130 Taliaferro: Well, the thought of such relationships influenced my husband to accept the position he did, and they were the problems that we worked on throughout our life. 00:08:15.130 --> 00:08:27.810 To get some answers to these questions, we studied specific trypanosome infections in the dog, guinea pig, mouse, and rat. We found three types of infections. 00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:42.190 First, when trypanosoma lewisi is grown in the mouse, the trypanosomes reproduce and increase in a geometric progression and the mouse dies in a few days. 00:08:42.190 --> 00:08:45.260 The mouse doesn't react at all. 00:08:45.260 --> 00:09:08.810 Second, when the same trypanosome is grown in the guinea pig, the trypanosomes again steadily reproduce, and the guinea pig dies, but only after a series of relapses lasting weeks. The guinea pig kills some trypanosomes with e-lysine but the rest keep on reproducing. 00:09:08.810 --> 00:09:20.860 Third, when trypanosoms lewisi is grown in the rat, the trypanosomes only reproduce during the first week and disappear thereafter at intervals. 00:09:20.860 --> 00:09:29.800 Thus, the rat forms an reproduction-inhibiting antibody as well as e-lysine. 00:09:29.800 --> 00:09:36.710 The rat then wins the battle and the infection is mild and benign. 00:09:36.710 --> 00:09:40.050 Vincent: These data, I believe, appeared in your first joint paper. 00:09:40.050 --> 00:09:50.260 Taliaferro: Yes, first I want to say, we didn't find anything like this in our malaria work later on, much to our disappointment. 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:57.290 Yes, they were published in 1922 in the newly organized American Journal of Hygiene. 00:09:57.290 --> 00:10:12.780 The title of the paper was, "The Resistance of Different Hosts to Experimental Trypanosome Infections, with A Special Reference to A New Method of Measuring this Resistance." 00:10:12.780 --> 00:10:19.910 It was a long 55 page paper, with 14 tables and 18 figures. 00:10:19.910 --> 00:10:30.570 The new method of measuring resistance was, of course, the use of the coefficient of variation for total length to measure reproduction. 00:10:30.570 --> 00:10:50.470 The paper took a tremendous lot of work. Each point on each figure throughout many infections necessitated the camera lucida drawing of midlines through each of 100 trypanosomes and a number count of the population. 00:10:50.470 --> 00:11:01.900 That meant over 10,000 drawings and the same number of calculations for means, coefficient of variation, and standard error. 00:11:01.900 --> 00:11:14.600 Vincent: It really shows that published papers in science call for arduous and devoted work, more so in 1920. You had no electronic calculators then, no computers to help you. 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:30.500 Taliaferro: Yes indeed. Now there is something else to explain in the title of this paper. That is the term "resistance." Actually, if the paper had been written today, immunity would have been substituted for the word resistance. 00:11:30.500 --> 00:11:38.790 But in the 1920s, little research had been done on the reaction of any host to protozoa. 00:11:38.790 --> 00:11:48.950 So scientists were leery of extending well-established bacterial terms to animal parasites. 00:11:48.950 --> 00:12:17.910 In the same way, the reproduction-inhibiting property of rats against T. lewisi was at first called a reaction product, and only later, long after it was christened in 1932 by my husband, was it admitted as an antibody. It is in this way that science grows and develops its comprehensive texture. 00:12:17.910 --> 00:12:28.480 No upstart idea can be accepted generally until it is checked and authenticated. 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:32.790 Vincent: And what came next in the laboratory? 00:12:32.790 --> 00:12:39.360 Taliaferro: One day Dr. Hegner came into the lab and said "Now this is the kind of letter I like to get." 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:52.400 William, of course, was duly intrigued. Dr. Hegner said it's from a Dr. Jordan who is head of the department of Hygiene and Bacteriology at the University of Chicago 00:12:52.400 --> 00:13:03.430 and he wants to know whether I know any young parisitologists to recommend for a position in his department. Now what shall I reply? 00:13:03.430 --> 00:13:13.420 William promptly answered, why don't you suggest me? And Dr. Hegner said "You," well sure why not, said William, it might turn out all right. 00:13:13.420 --> 00:13:16.790 Vincent: Little did he know how well it really did turn out 00:13:16.790 --> 00:13:18.990 Taliaferro: Indeed I should say not. 00:13:18.990 --> 00:13:28.230 Well the upshot of it was Dr. Hegner recommended William and Dr. Jordan invited William to Chicago to give a lecture. 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:36.640 He went and wired me to meet him upon his return, at the [Renet?] Hotel for dinner. 00:13:36.640 --> 00:13:53.170 Curiously enough, I only remember two things about that occasion: The eggplant was delicious and two, WIlliam remarked "and think of it, he offered me a position before he heard my lecture." 00:13:53.170 --> 00:13:57.510 Vincent: And your husband accepted the position but with certain provisos? 00:13:57.510 --> 00:14:01.970 Taliaferro: Yes, that's right. As I remember William made three provisos. 00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:12.350 He said he needed lots of animals, a calculating machine, and permission to let me work in the lab as his voluntary assistant. 00:14:12.350 --> 00:14:25.550 All three conditions were granted and I was happy to be put on a staff and to be eventually moved through the graduate grades, including professor, without pay. 00:14:25.550 --> 00:14:30.040 Vincent: Did you really look forward to this change in base, from Baltimore to Chicago? 00:14:30.040 --> 00:14:43.650 Taliaferro: We were thrilled with the offer, but needless to say, we were flabbergasted to think of being uprooted and having to go to the midwest. 00:14:43.650 --> 00:14:46.360 Vincent: And you had to sell your house. 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:47.690 Taliaferro: Yes. 00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:50.450 Vincent: And look for a new apartment 00:14:50.450 --> 00:15:02.450 Taliaferro: We had to sell our house and in the midst of taking courses and I was working on the protozoa that causes malaria in sparrows and chickens for my doctor's degree. 00:15:02.450 --> 00:15:17.380 Fortunately I could return for my orals, and early in 1925 received and earned a doctor of science degree that the school of hygiene gives instead of the PhD. 00:15:17.380 --> 00:15:22.720 Vincent: How did this change from Baltimore to Washington affect your life? 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:37.860 Taliaferro: The University of Chicago was good for us and to us. The Johns Hopkins University had been our protective guardian as beginners. We grew up to adults at the University of Chicago. 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:53.970 At Hopkins, Trypanosomes had dominated our attention. At Chicago, almost from the beginning to 1950, various malarias held sway and the plasmodia that caused them. 00:15:53.970 --> 00:16:03.600 A plasmodium is transmitted naturally, from host to host by the bite of an infected mosquito. 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:08.860 The Anopheles mosquito transmits human malaria. 00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:21.650 The work was launched with the publication of my thesis, entitled "Periodicity of Infection: Reproduction and Resistance to Bird Malaria." 00:16:21.650 --> 00:16:34.690 It appeared in 1925 in preliminary form in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, and in final form in th American Journal of Heigene. 00:16:34.690 --> 00:17:04.090 Here the same problem was attacked, but different circumstances necessitated different methods. The malarial parasite, after infecting a host, starts as small rings in the red blood cells, and are nourished by the hemoglobin in the red cells, the indigestible part of the hemoglobin accumulates as dark brown pigment granules. 00:17:04.090 --> 00:17:28.260 The parasites grow synchronously into multi-nucleated forms and then divide synchronously into fully developed segmentas in the red cell. These segmentas contain from 18 to 24 or more little separate merozoites, depending on the species. 00:17:28.260 --> 00:17:41.330 They then break out of the red cell, and the merozoites enter other red cells sychronously, every one, two, or three days, depending upon the species. 00:17:41.330 --> 00:17:45.540 Vincent: This is a spectacular thing to behold under a microscope. 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:57.760 Taliaferro: It was, and figure 2 may give you some idea. Here the temperature is graphed for four days at the peak of malaria in man. 00:17:57.760 --> 00:18:08.950 The temperature is normal until the evening of the second day. Then a chill and fever up to 104 degrees Fahrenheit occurs. 00:18:08.950 --> 00:18:15.100 Here is a second onset of chill and fever, exactly like the first. 00:18:15.100 --> 00:18:19.320 We can also see what the plasmodium is doing. 00:18:19.320 --> 00:18:28.010 It starts as a small ring in a red cell, grows larger, divides, and reaches the segmenta stage. 00:18:28.010 --> 00:18:40.070 Then, the red cell breaks, and the small merozoites, pigment granules, and residues of the red blood cell are thrown into the blood stream. 00:18:40.070 --> 00:18:44.120 They cause the chill and fever. 00:18:44.120 --> 00:18:51.770 Vincent: Now, I believe that the malaria work, as I recall, involved Plasmodium brasilianum in the spider monkey. 00:18:51.770 --> 00:18:55.290 Taliaferro: Yes,it did, and the data were fascinating. 00:18:55.290 --> 00:19:10.810 In the first place, with the three determinations we made on each side, we could tell the length of each reproductive cycle, the expected increase in number, and the actual number that lived and died. 00:19:10.810 --> 00:19:25.020 For example, if the plasmodia segmented into 10 merozoites every three days, an increase of 10 should be expected every three days. 00:19:25.020 --> 00:19:27.660 Vincent: Now, you have a figure to show this. 00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:38.520 Taliaferro: Yes, in Figure 3, the numbered day is graphed according to the day of infection of Plasmodium brasilianum in the spider monkey. 00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:43.860 The number count increases in a series of steps. 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:52.090 The number of parasites that lived or died is illustrated better in a semi-logarithmic graph of the same data. 00:19:52.090 --> 00:19:55.030 This is shown in Figure 4. 00:19:55.030 --> 00:20:07.990 At the top of Figure 4, the presence of segmentas is indicated by the arrows. The number of merozoites produced by each reproductive cycle is also shown. 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:16.130 For five cycles, the mean of 10 merozoites was formed per segmenta every three days. 00:20:16.130 --> 00:20:24.780 But the number count, as shown by the heavy line, failed to increase by 10 at any time. 00:20:24.780 --> 00:20:34.510 Only six of the 10 merozoites succeeded in entering new red cells, and of these, three died before segmenting. 00:20:34.510 --> 00:20:50.970 Seventy percent of the parasites died during the initial infection, and even more died at the time of the so-called crisis of the infection, when aquired immunity was superimposed on an innate immunity. 00:20:50.970 --> 00:21:05.210 These results, plus related ones, were published in 24 papers between 1925 and 1955. 00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:09.120 Vincent: And most of those were co-authored with you and Dr. Taliaferro. 00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:10.590 Taliaferro: Yes. 00:21:10.590 --> 00:21:12.730 Vincent: And then he also wrote many reviews during that period. 00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:13.580 Taliaferro: Yes. 00:21:13.580 --> 00:21:17.710 Vincent: That sounds, and was, I know, a lot, lot of work. 00:21:17.710 --> 00:21:19.660 Taliaferro: It was. 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:22.910 Vincent: And then, you took some tropical trips that were very interesting. 00:21:22.910 --> 00:21:27.820 Taliaferro: Yes, we enjoyed 10, three-month trips to centers of tropical medicine. 00:21:27.820 --> 00:21:33.590 We went by boat from either New Orleans or New York in winter or spring. 00:21:33.590 --> 00:21:48.410 The trips began in 1926. There were two trips to Honduras, four to Puerto Rico, three to Panama, and one final one to Chile in 1953. 00:21:48.410 --> 00:21:59.020 On our first trip to Honduras, we lived in the guest house of the United Fruit Company among the coconut palms on the beach of the Gulf of Honduras. 00:21:59.020 --> 00:22:09.010 Mixed with work and play, we swam, played tennis, rode horseback, danced, and made many friends. 00:22:09.010 --> 00:22:16.810 This seemed a delightful paradise for two months, but we were glad to return home in another month. 00:22:16.810 --> 00:22:21.070 Every trip followed the same pattern. 00:22:21.070 --> 00:22:34.750 They were all preceded by hectic packing of laboratory equipment, were filled with hard work and play, and were followed by unpacking and the completion of our finished experiments. 00:22:34.750 --> 00:22:41.890 We brought back agoutis, a dog, mice, and monkeys, all filled with parasites. 00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:54.640 Our return with a dozen agoutis, a guinea pig-like animal the size of a rabbit, was preceded by a lot of correspondence with the Department of Animal Industry in Washington. 00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:07.770 When we arrived at New Orleans, a customs official greeted William with "Well, you are the fellow we had all of the trouble with. How do we pronounce your name? William said "Toliver." 00:23:07.770 --> 00:23:20.110 Good, said the official, I win 10 dollars on that! Go right on through. And he stamped all of our cages and bags with a satisfied flourish. 00:23:20.110 --> 00:23:36.580 I don't blame people for being mystified by the name. Although William's forebearers came from England to Virginia, the name is spelled T-a-l-i-a-f-e-r-r-o and pronounced "Toliver." 00:23:36.580 --> 00:23:41.720 It was in 1935 that you sailed into our life, remember? 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.020 Vincent: Indeed I do. Probably the most important day of my entire life. 00:23:45.020 --> 00:23:48.290 Taliaferro: [laughter] I don't believe it. 00:23:48.290 --> 00:23:56.490 We had just come back from Panama with two red spider monkeys, each with a temperament all her own, remember? 00:23:56.490 --> 00:23:57.890 Vincent: Yes. 00:23:57.890 --> 00:24:04.740 Taliaferro: One small, endearing one we christened "Freckles." The large and opinionated one was "Suki." 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:15.370 Both were infected with Plasmodium brasilianum and they went through infections similar to that in Figures 3 and 4. 00:24:15.370 --> 00:24:27.380 Vincent: We really had the duty, bleeding as early as 6 in the morning, sometimes 10 to 12 o'clock at night, Sundays, Saturdays, holidays, and weekends, too. 00:24:27.380 --> 00:24:28.980 Taliaferro: Yes. 00:24:28.980 --> 00:24:39.750 Vincent: It was no picnic, tying those screaming bunches of animal activity to the board and trying to get a little blood for the differential counts and the blood smears. 00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:46.310 Taliaferro: And all of this took time, and the results weren't published until five years later. 00:24:46.310 --> 00:24:56.770 Vincent: You know, except for your friends, and some coworkers and graduate students, not many are aware of the major role you played during those 36 years in Chicago. 00:24:56.770 --> 00:25:05.900 I'd like to read an excerpt from one of the letters that was sent to you and Dr. Taliaferro at the time of your retirement from the University of Chicago. 00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:18.580 [Vincent reads from letter.] Knowing the man, and happily his wife, Lucy, all can see that his acheivement is shared and indeed made possible by her strong support and untiring energy and research. 00:25:18.580 --> 00:25:20.290 Taliaferro: Well, thank you very much. 00:25:20.290 --> 00:25:27.590 Vincent: That is a very small indication of what you really did during your entire lifetime. 00:25:27.590 --> 00:25:36.220 Now, to continue with the research projects. Quinine was one of the standard treatments for malaria. Did you and Dr. Taliaferro do any work with quinine? 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:52.980 Taliaferro: Oh, yes. We did a tremendous amount of work on quinine, especially in connection with the Second World War, you know. For that study we used Plasmodium gallinaceum, a lethal malaria of chickens. 00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:59.730 Our basic work on this parasite corroborated what we had found in the other malarias. 00:25:59.730 --> 00:26:10.350 To test the action of quinine, young chickens were given quinine before and after infection with the Plasmodium. 00:26:10.350 --> 00:26:24.350 Splenectomized chickens were similarly treated and infected. Then, quinine levels blood levels were determined, and the blood serums and tissues exhaustively studied. 00:26:24.350 --> 00:26:44.990 We found during supressive quinine therapy, that quinine acted directly by stunting and inhibiting reproduction of the parasites, while both innate and acquired immunity killed the parasites as was to be expected. 00:26:44.990 --> 00:26:57.770 And that the spleen acted in two antagonistic ways. It descreased drug parasite contact, but increased acquired immunity. 00:26:57.770 --> 00:27:04.000 Vincent: So now, we return to what makes all of those Plasmodia die in malaria? 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:15.660 Taliaferro: That took an intensive study of cells during the course of various malarias in the canary, chickens, and all kinds of monkeys. 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:25.750 Fresh, normal and infected tissues were excised, fixed, sectioned, stained, and studied under the microscope. 00:27:25.750 --> 00:27:48.660 It was found that the Plasmodia were actively concentrated by the host in strategically placed organs, such as the spleen, liver, and bone marrow in a blood-inhabiting parasite, and were there [phagocytosed?] by cells in situ called macrophages. 00:27:48.660 --> 00:28:07.250 It was found further that the macrophages increased enormously in number by dividing mainly from lymphocytes and monocytes, and that the lymphosites and monocytes actively divided to supply the drain made on them. 00:28:07.250 --> 00:28:36.920 The phagocytic macrophages and their development from actively dividing lymphcytes and monocytes thus accounted for the 70 percent disappearance of Plasmodia during natural or innate immunity of the host as well as during aquired immunity at the so-called crisis and thereafter. 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:52.290 All this work was published by William and a succession of his associates and completed our study of the interrelationships of host and malaria parasite. 00:28:52.290 --> 00:29:10.270 This work brought into prominence the hitherto neglected lymphocyte. That the lymphocyte is important in defense was a novel idea in the 1930s and 40s, but it has since been generally accepted. 00:29:10.270 --> 00:29:23.380 Thus scientists need a receptive and resilient mind, as well as imagination and ingenuity to expand the borders of knowledge. 00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:29.330 Vincent: Now you have a slide, I believe, that shows some of the things that you were working on. 00:29:29.330 --> 00:29:41.030 Taliaferro: Yes. These drawings were made with a camera lucida. They are so small, that I'm sure that all of them could sit comfortably on the head of a pin. 00:29:41.030 --> 00:29:42.400 Vincent: A very small pin. 00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:49.250 Taliaferro: Such small things guard our health, unknowingly to us. 00:29:49.250 --> 00:30:02.030 To the left, the cells are flattened out on a stained, dried tissue impression of a spleen, and those on the square are rounded as they appear in sections of the spleen. 00:30:02.030 --> 00:30:13.890 The large cells are macrophages which have ingested malaria parasites and the smaller cells are lymphocytes and monocytes from which the macrophages arise. 00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:32.080 The dark brown pigment granules that you see in the macrophages, are evidently as indigestable to the macrophages as they are to the parasite itself, because they can be seen months after the infection has subsided. 00:30:32.080 --> 00:30:43.150 As a consequence, they were invaluable markers for locating those cells that were phagocytically active. 00:30:43.150 --> 00:30:52.200 When the lymphocytes and monocytes divide, they swell up, and their nuclei look like a pack of small worms. 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.390 Vincent: How did you get involved in hemolysin work? 00:30:55.390 --> 00:31:06.200 Taliaferro: There were three important factors: We wrote a review on the effect of x-rays on immunity in conjunction with the Second World War. 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:15.910 In the second place, we began to teach a course in immunology. William gave the lectures, and I watched over the laboratory work. 00:31:15.910 --> 00:31:26.320 In the third place, William wanted to study an antigen antibody system by itself, without the complication of reproduction. 00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:49.190 But he had to [divide?] a test. He was lucky. He found that the newly perfected [?] would measure the amount of color freed from red blood cells by hemolysin. 00:31:49.190 --> 00:31:55.390 He then selected sheep red cells as the antigen to inject into rabbits. 00:31:55.390 --> 00:32:05.420 The test consisted of the following: [lutions?] of serum from the clotted blood of rabbits were set up in test tubes. 00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:20.330 A standard amount of sheep red blood cells was added, and after incubating it 37 degrees centigrade for half an hour, the percent of color was obtained in each tube in the colorimeter. 00:32:20.330 --> 00:32:27.300 These percentages were graphed to find the exact 50 percent point of hemolysis. 00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:33.050 Vincent: A very precise technique and chore. 00:32:33.050 --> 00:32:43.230 Taliaferro: Logarithmic titers were used in our work because they lent themselves to statistical analysis better than arithmetic value. 00:32:43.230 --> 00:32:51.690 This same advantage was evident in Figure 4 vs. Figure 3 of the malaria in the red spider monkey. 00:32:51.690 --> 00:33:04.220 Log titers for each response could then be plotted and separated into linear segments to determine time and rates of production and decline. 00:33:04.220 --> 00:33:15.910 The method was a phenomenally exact and comparatively simple, but the antibody was not as easily measured as ribbon by the yard. 00:33:15.910 --> 00:33:35.100 It took complicated steps involving expert pipetting as well as automatic pipettes, constant temperature water baths, centrifuges, colorimeters, logarithmic transformations, and graphing of the data. 00:33:35.100 --> 00:33:40.460 Tests were set up each week for the serum collected the preceding week. 00:33:40.460 --> 00:34:02.400 Then, a peak of activity occurred. Every Tuesday and Thursday in our laboratory when a 10-minute schedule for the actual tests was maintained for several hours by a battery of alarmed timers, relentlessly regulating the various procedures. 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:14.810 By contrast, Friday was quiet. The tests were graphed for their 50 percent points and these were in turn added to the proper serum graph. 00:34:14.810 --> 00:34:30.970 To us, the outcome of the weekly schedule was like the installment of an intriguing detective story. 00:34:30.970 --> 00:34:50.180 When a small amount of sheep red blood cells was injected intravenously into a rabbit, an induction period of about two days was followed by a rapid rise to peak titer of about 3.3 log units. 00:34:50.180 --> 00:34:55.720 This was followed by a moderate decline. 00:34:55.720 --> 00:35:00.600 Vincent: You have a figure, I believe, to indicate this. 00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:01.360 Taliaferro: Yes. 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:21.380 Other basic facts were also established. And then we started an extensive study of the effect of small and large doses of x-rays, when given before and after red cells were injected. 00:35:21.380 --> 00:35:51.970 It had long been known that antibody titer is markedly suppressed by such large doses as 500R, when the antigen is given one or two days after irradiation, but we found that peak titer was markedly enhanced after a lengthened induction period when red cells were given two hours before irradiation with such large doses. 00:35:51.970 --> 00:36:09.520 We also found that peak titer was markedly stimulated within a normal time when red cells were given two days to two hours before very small doses of x-rays, 25 to 100 Roentgen. 00:36:09.520 --> 00:36:23.900 Or when red cells were given one or two days before extremely large doses of x-rays, 5,000 to 10,000R were given locally to the spleen alone. 00:36:23.900 --> 00:36:37.070 We sterilized the spleen and gave it the 500R that way. These results were surprising and unexpected. 00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:57.820 William and Dr. [Jerry Slogan?] concluded that stimiuation of the hymolocyn response was accounted for by the x-ray release of nucleic acid degradation products which are in short supply in the normal host. That was very interesting. 00:36:57.820 --> 00:37:03.150 Vincent: Now this work was divided between Chicago and Argonne. 00:37:03.150 --> 00:37:04.750 Taliaferro: Yes. That's right 00:37:04.750 --> 00:37:06.900 Vincent: Started in Chicago, and then continued at Argonne. 00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:26.540 Taliaferro: That's right. This work involving more than 20 joint publications was carried out at the University of Chicago until 1960, when we retired. It was then continued for another nine years, when we moved to the Argonne National Laboratory. 00:37:26.540 --> 00:37:40.810 This laboratory was 30 miles from the University of Chicago, and necessitated a whole new life pattern. We had to buy a house, and at last became the owners of an automobile. 00:37:40.810 --> 00:37:48.380 Publications continued through 1970, and William died three years later. 00:37:48.380 --> 00:38:00.130 Vincent: Can we, for a minute, go back, I think it would be very interesting if you could describe how the word "ablastin" came into being. 00:38:00.130 --> 00:38:02.000 Taliaferro: For goodness sake. 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:21.410 Well, William was very interested in words, always was, and he and Dr. Blanche [Boya?], the Latin professor, got together and decided to name it some Latin term, so blast was supposed to be "body" and a was "against" something. 00:38:21.410 --> 00:38:34.800 So "ablastin" was an antibody against reproduction. That was the way it was spelled. They had lots of sessions about that. It was real funny. 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:46.070 Vincent: After Dr. Taliaferro died you decided to move from the Argonne area. 00:38:46.070 --> 00:39:06.810 Taliaferro: Yes, since then I have moved to the 12th floor of Oak Cove, in Clearwater, Florida, with a gorgeous panaramic view of Clearwater Bay, and a string of islands beyond, and the Gulf of Mexico beyond that. It's a beautiful view. 00:39:06.810 --> 00:39:28.470 Aside from two short trips to Europe and frequent trips to Washington to see my family, I garden, do voluntary library work at Oak Grove and at the Methodist Church, explore nearby Florida by bus, make new friends, and exercise, and piano-practice daily. 00:39:28.470 --> 00:39:41.940 Vincent: I am very pleased that you are enjoying your years of retirement, but there are many people who miss you and you would be very productive if you were back in the laboratory. 00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:43.750 [Music plays as photographs of William and Lucy Graves Taliaferro are displayed.] 00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:55.480 [1923-1924 group photo] 00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:01.360 [1951 group photo] 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:06.340 [1952 group photo] 00:40:06.340 --> 00:40:11.830 [1954 group photo] 00:40:11.830 --> 00:40:17.480 [1960 group photo] 00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:42.680 [ASTMH 1955 group photo] 00:40:45.100 --> 00:40:49.430 [Workers in Tropical Medicine] 00:40:49.430 --> 00:40:53.990 [Lucy Graves Taliaferro, Sc.D., Retired] 00:40:53.990 --> 00:40:59.490 [Interviewed by Monroe M. Vincent, Sr. Res. Associate. Dept. of Pediatrics, USUHS, Bethesda, Md.] 00:40:59.490 --> 00:41:03.580 [Produced by the Centers for Disease Control 00:41:03.580 --> 00:41:11.370 [in cooperation with the National Library of Medicine and the American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene] 00:41:11.370 --> 00:41:16.330 [Workers in Tropical Medicine]