WEBVTT
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*This machine-generated transcript may have errors. If remediation or a manually-generated transcript is needed, please contact NLM Support at https://support.nlm.nih.gov.*

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mhm

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me?

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Yeah.

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The

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e could tell.

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I could tell I was hurting him,

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not hurting him.

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But I was.

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I was bothering him.

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He was acting crazy in the house.

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No person can't stand something like that.

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What we're doing.

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I couldn't control my voice.

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1000 screen,

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that screen,

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but sort of half scream.

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Thank you.

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Then you should control yourself on then.

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The most important thing about the about what happened?

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I didn't tell you yet.

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It's like I was being possessed by the devil.

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He was telling me.

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It was like he was telling me what to do and I would do it

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and I would go along with it.

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I would couldn't fight it.

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I know it's hard to you to believe that,

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but what was it?

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What did it feel like?

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It was horrible.

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But I know I was destroyed.

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I was on the verge of destroying my father.

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The voice said,

01:16.870 --> 01:17.610
Kill your father.

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Something like that.

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Stab your father.

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Then I would answer.

01:20.210 --> 01:20.380
No,

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I won't do it.

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I'll do it later.

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That,

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uh,

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I couldn't stand on.

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Drove me nuts was a real struggle.

01:30.840 --> 01:31.110
Well,

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I was I wasn't getting anywhere I was just

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getting deeper and deeper into the intra mess.

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Every action I took was against my father.

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Then I said,

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after my father,

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I'm gonna kill my aunt and uncle,

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then all my relatives that I killed

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that I that I do the supreme act of eliminating

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eliminate the universe destroyed the entire

01:56.840 --> 01:57.350
universe.

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I felt I could do it.

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Actually.

01:59.790 --> 02:01.470
Did you really feel you could do it at the time?

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You know,

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it's not.

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It's not that hard.

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I mean,

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I heard people when I walk on the street,

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I look at people,

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people look at me and I turn away,

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and I heard some a little bit.

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You do this enough times.

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It can affect people on their jobs.

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When they go,

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come back from the lunch hour on their job.

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They make a mistake on their job based on a reaction

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expression that I passed on to them in a

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purposeful expression.

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No,

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it's not the whole I don't wanna hurt anyone,

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but I don't know what to do when people look at me in the street.

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Once in a while,

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every once in a while,

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a person looks at me in the street like a very friendly

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look.

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You know,

02:34.930 --> 02:37.860
like he sees something that he likes.

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He sees in me something that he likes a panic stricken.

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I have no idea what to do.

02:42.840 --> 02:45.510
It was a man usually no men or

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women e they smile at you.

02:48.260 --> 02:51.120
They don't smile about sometimes sometimes

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women smiling Pastor,

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I don't know what they don't

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smile back.

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Haven't been able to do that.

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Young man you've just been looking at has

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been diagnosed as suffering from a schizophrenic illness.

03:05.900 --> 03:08.100
And at the time of this visit,

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one week after he had had an acute

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exacerbation of his symptoms

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uh,

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he is beginning Thio tell

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us how the recurrence of this

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episode occurred.

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He stopped taking his medicine,

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which is a very common problem in

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patients suffering from long

03:27.580 --> 03:30.450
standing chronic mental conditions.

03:31.910 --> 03:32.950
As you'll see,

03:33.740 --> 03:36.120
he describes a variety of delusional

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experiences,

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hallucinations and other terrifying things

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which are very disconcerting to him is well as

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to his father with whom he lives,

03:45.600 --> 03:48.470
the important thing in this tape is

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that once his symptoms are

03:51.230 --> 03:52.180
under control,

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the problems he's got to deal with are largely

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social problems faced by other young

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people who are still very dependent on very

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attached to their families.

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I think this is the underlying theme that

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has the widest significance,

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the most significance in terms of the

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problem of managing patients such as this.

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Because with the advent of chemotherapy in

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the past 15 years,

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it's now possible to treat people suffering

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from schizophrenic conditions in the community.

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And almost half the hospital beds in New York state

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alone have been emptied as a result of

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the advent of the major

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tranquilizers,

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the Fino thighs scenes.

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But once they're in the community,

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they oftentimes face the same problems that

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they did when they were in the large institutions.

04:42.110 --> 04:43.210
That is custodial is,

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um,

04:43.620 --> 04:46.410
a an excessive concern and

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sensitivity for their problems.

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Experience by their families,

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which leads to a over protectiveness,

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a kind of reluctance to let the

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young man go out on his own,

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become independent.

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In turn,

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the young man begins to experience some of the

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same frustrations and feeling

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that his father parents

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are very dependent upon him.

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And it's the generation of guilt and

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frustration because of of this

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feeling of obligation towards the family,

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which creates much of the pent up hostility

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which is then reflected in the kind

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of delusional formation which he describes.

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But if you compare me with all the evil people in this world,

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I come out the worst.

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What have you done?

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That's been evil.

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I told you evil thoughts about my father Stand evil

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thoughts.

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Yeah,

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but you haven't.

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Evil accident is not what you've done.

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A lot of people have evil thoughts.

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What you're saying is angry feelings.

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Why would I want my father?

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Why would I wanna hurt my father?

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I don't know.

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Purely.

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It's purely an evil thing.

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It has no basis.

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There's no rationality for Well,

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maybe there is.

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E,

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have you ever gotten angry?

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Again.

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You probably get angry.

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And sometimes,

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without even being willing to

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express that anger,

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I try not to express Try to impress her.

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That's right.

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What is that?

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Where's that feeling?

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Go.

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I know.

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Uh huh.

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Builds up.

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Where'd you go?

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Doesn't any.

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Doesn't sign.

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It builds up inside you builds up these evil thoughts.

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Were these angry thoughts which you then interpret his evil.

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Okay,

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if you were evil,

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you wouldn't.

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You sort of get having angry feeling.

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You express it and you wouldn't be concerned with the consequence,

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they wouldn't have any evil.

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That's no good.

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When I express my anger,

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that's gonna be very well not be

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because you feel guilty for doing that,

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too.

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Question is,

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what can you do to prevent yourself from getting angry

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to prevent myself from getting?

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I get angry at everything.

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Every little thing in the course of the day gets me angry

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or everything.

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Everything gets me angry.

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Your father make it particularly difficult to get angry with him because

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he's so kind to you.

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I can't stand that way.

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He's so come to me.

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You can.

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That really makes me feel guilty.

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Does everything.

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For me,

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everything is to sacrifice a little thing,

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like making some bacon for lunch.

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He'll take the old package.

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You don't say,

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and I'll give you see?

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Tell me you start the new package.

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It's a trivial little item,

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yet that happens 10 times a day.

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I guess me that great guilty

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on mad.

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But you can't express it because he's done.

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What he feels is an act of kindness.

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Is that I think so.

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I can't think too well.

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Did you understand that?

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I think you've explained it quite clearly.

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Kids.

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He's nice to you.

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It makes you feel a little bit helpless.

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Makes you feel a little bit guilty.

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It makes you feel a bit resentful the same time it

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obligates you and your kind of caught in that trap.

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Oh,

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yeah,

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I see what you mean.

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I mean,

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if he was sort of nasty to you.

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Yeah.

08:00.860 --> 08:02.160
Then you could get nasty back.

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But he is kind to you.

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It makes it very difficult.

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Think like you feel like he's doing it for you when maybe

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he's really doing it for himself.

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Maybe he feels more comfortable.

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Maybe it makes him feel good that he's kind.

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Mhm?

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Well,

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he thinks he's kind because from what you're saying doesn't sound like it's real

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kindness.

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Real kindness would give you a kick in the tail,

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let you go out and discover that you really have more.

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Resource is Then you believe you dio

08:33.440 --> 08:33.650
Yeah.

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How much do you help him?

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Help him?

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How do you know what we spend?

08:37.850 --> 08:40.360
How much are you supporting him?

08:40.460 --> 08:43.430
Even though it looks like he's taking care of you Well,

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I try to support of a lot.

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It means that I

08:48.730 --> 08:49.950
I listen to all this conversation.

08:49.960 --> 08:52.450
I pretend to listen to those conversations without really listening toe.

08:54.030 --> 08:54.870
That's that's no good.

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You're cheating.

08:56.800 --> 08:57.470
It's cheating.

08:59.540 --> 09:02.310
What about sort of his conversations are so

09:02.310 --> 09:02.660
bad?

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Why can't I just listen to him?

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Really?

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Maybe you don't want to All the time.

09:06.720 --> 09:07.010
Yeah,

09:07.010 --> 09:08.080
but you have to do it.

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You have toe,

09:08.750 --> 09:09.170
do you?

09:11.540 --> 09:11.670
Well,

09:11.670 --> 09:13.710
he has certain needs that I have to help him with,

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do you?

09:14.840 --> 09:14.990
Well,

09:14.990 --> 09:15.350
who else?

09:15.360 --> 09:16.370
Don't be anyone else there.

09:16.740 --> 09:17.580
Is that his problem?

09:17.590 --> 09:18.150
Your problem?

09:18.740 --> 09:18.890
Well,

09:18.890 --> 09:19.770
I have to help him out.

09:20.000 --> 09:20.450
Why?

09:20.940 --> 09:22.850
Because your father let me.

09:23.740 --> 09:23.980
Oh,

09:23.990 --> 09:25.020
that means a lot.

09:25.360 --> 09:25.790
What do you say?

09:25.790 --> 09:26.430
What does that mean?

09:26.660 --> 09:28.860
What we're you know how much is good for me.

09:29.740 --> 09:29.900
Yeah,

09:29.900 --> 09:31.870
but you've got your own nice lead to,

09:31.880 --> 09:33.030
but I can't lead at this point.

09:33.030 --> 09:33.870
He's supporting me.

09:33.990 --> 09:36.580
He's not even he's not even criticizing me.

09:36.730 --> 09:38.560
He's myself support.

09:38.940 --> 09:40.170
He knows I can't.

09:40.640 --> 09:42.460
He senses that I can't go out in the street.

09:42.470 --> 09:44.150
But I wonder whether you couldn't do Mawr.

09:45.240 --> 09:47.070
If you didn't feel like you have.

09:47.440 --> 09:49.870
He needs you to be dependent on him.

09:53.540 --> 09:56.350
It makes him feel good to take care of

09:56.350 --> 09:56.570
you.

09:57.140 --> 09:57.470
Yeah,

09:57.940 --> 09:58.520
that true?

09:58.710 --> 09:59.050
Yeah.

09:59.840 --> 10:02.690
And so for you to go out and get a job becomes self supporting

10:03.340 --> 10:04.150
are self sufficient.

10:04.150 --> 10:05.190
I don't think it goes that far.

10:05.200 --> 10:06.700
That doesn't want me to get a job,

10:06.710 --> 10:09.430
but I think it definitely means live on your own.

10:09.440 --> 10:10.780
You have your own life with that.

10:10.840 --> 10:10.990
Well,

10:10.990 --> 10:12.160
he'd be glad if I got married.

10:13.140 --> 10:13.950
He'd be glad.

10:14.650 --> 10:17.470
Of course you have a conflict with the

10:18.140 --> 10:19.140
we've been read.

10:19.480 --> 10:21.710
I don't think he you would be.

10:21.710 --> 10:23.230
That hung up Thio.

10:23.240 --> 10:23.630
Protest.

10:23.630 --> 10:24.220
Something like that.

10:24.230 --> 10:24.960
If I got a job,

10:24.970 --> 10:25.560
got married.

10:25.940 --> 10:27.990
He's encouraging me to go out and meet friends.

10:28.130 --> 10:29.360
He's coming to club this friend.

10:29.740 --> 10:30.250
Try and get it.

10:30.940 --> 10:31.610
Go with him.

10:34.040 --> 10:35.570
He wants me to work that well

10:39.540 --> 10:39.950
tomorrow.

10:39.950 --> 10:42.720
That's an upsetting thoughts that he wants me to get.

10:42.720 --> 10:43.040
Well,

10:43.060 --> 10:43.570
but he doesn't.

10:44.040 --> 10:44.250
Well,

10:44.260 --> 10:44.970
he does.

10:45.840 --> 10:46.950
He doesn't want me to go well,

10:48.840 --> 10:50.880
but you're afraid of e.

10:50.880 --> 10:53.690
Think like you're putting a lot of emphasis now My father's

10:53.690 --> 10:54.210
problems.

10:54.410 --> 10:56.370
I don't think my father has been such a big problems.

10:56.610 --> 10:56.900
I don't know,

10:56.910 --> 10:58.860
but you have these feelings about your father.

10:59.140 --> 11:02.090
You compromise yourself to some extent in order to

11:02.090 --> 11:02.930
please him.

11:03.170 --> 11:04.500
Listen to him when you don't feel it,

11:04.510 --> 11:06.750
but but the reason I do it is because

11:07.740 --> 11:09.360
I think he's an exceptional human being.

11:09.740 --> 11:12.430
The fact that he never complains about it work,

11:12.490 --> 11:13.010
they in it,

11:13.010 --> 11:13.600
they get,

11:13.600 --> 11:14.440
somebody goes to work,

11:14.440 --> 11:16.170
there's a four o'clock in 15 o'clock,

11:16.640 --> 11:18.770
goes out and does a good days work.

11:19.640 --> 11:20.750
It's even hard to beat that.

11:21.440 --> 11:21.720
I mean,

11:21.720 --> 11:22.760
it makes him a saint,

11:23.440 --> 11:26.390
but he he is in a way that's so I mean anything less

11:26.390 --> 11:26.790
than that.

11:26.910 --> 11:27.460
You know,

11:27.570 --> 11:30.550
Certainly if you're not even getting up going up and you really are the devil

11:31.440 --> 11:32.370
from that point of view,

11:32.740 --> 11:34.980
e don't think you are,

11:34.990 --> 11:35.440
But I mean,

11:35.720 --> 11:37.420
I could see where you might feel like you are.

11:37.780 --> 11:38.950
You can't measure upto.

11:41.940 --> 11:43.050
It makes you feel very guilty.

11:47.440 --> 11:50.280
I think I said to the truth and what you're saying.

11:50.280 --> 11:51.670
I can't really think about it.

11:52.140 --> 11:53.850
I can't really follow with that great good.

11:54.240 --> 11:55.650
I think I said What do you think about it?

11:57.240 --> 11:58.390
As you can see,

11:59.040 --> 12:01.000
it's quite possible to

12:01.000 --> 12:03.840
engage the quite

12:03.850 --> 12:06.460
irrational and disturbed young person

12:06.470 --> 12:08.900
in a psychotherapeutic

12:08.900 --> 12:09.500
encounter.

12:09.500 --> 12:11.480
It's quite possible to,

12:11.490 --> 12:12.280
uh,

12:12.290 --> 12:15.020
acknowledge that you understand how he

12:15.020 --> 12:17.870
feels but that you don't necessarily agree with

12:17.870 --> 12:18.160
him.

12:18.460 --> 12:21.410
I think it's important not to argue with people and not

12:21.420 --> 12:23.650
to discount the way they're feeling.

12:23.660 --> 12:26.620
He really believes that he was talking to the

12:26.620 --> 12:26.980
devil.

12:26.980 --> 12:29.600
He really believes that he's one of the worst

12:29.610 --> 12:31.070
people of all time.

12:31.440 --> 12:34.050
The important thing is to acknowledge and to recognize,

12:34.540 --> 12:34.950
uh,

12:34.960 --> 12:37.820
that he does feel that way and try to understand what the

12:37.820 --> 12:39.060
sources of it are,

12:39.120 --> 12:41.910
because the sources are likely d o t.

12:41.920 --> 12:44.750
To turn out to be very much of similar experiences,

12:44.760 --> 12:47.710
to the kinds of things everybody experiences in the process of

12:47.710 --> 12:50.420
growing up so that his

12:50.940 --> 12:53.570
delusions are understandable and it's in

12:53.580 --> 12:56.400
trying to get at the source of them that one is

12:56.400 --> 12:59.400
able to see what the root of his current problem

12:59.400 --> 12:59.850
is.

13:00.240 --> 13:02.890
I think he's vulnerable in the sense that he

13:03.140 --> 13:05.460
tends under stress and under difficult

13:05.460 --> 13:08.410
circumstances to become schizophrenic in terms of the

13:08.410 --> 13:09.430
symptoms he has.

13:09.570 --> 13:12.430
But I think at the same time the problem he has

13:12.610 --> 13:15.350
is one which can be worked with.

13:16.140 --> 13:16.530
It's funny,

13:16.530 --> 13:17.600
I'm trying to be such a good point.

13:17.600 --> 13:17.880
I want.

13:17.880 --> 13:20.840
I'm not being a good boy because the good boy is out of the house

13:20.840 --> 13:21.240
at home.

13:21.250 --> 13:23.850
He's his in his own home with his own wife and Children.

13:24.440 --> 13:25.610
So where my good boy?

13:25.620 --> 13:28.490
Not even a good boy at home he's been.

13:28.490 --> 13:29.670
He's been very,

13:29.680 --> 13:30.450
very helpful.

13:30.610 --> 13:31.560
He helps you with the cooking.

13:31.560 --> 13:31.880
He helps.

13:31.880 --> 13:33.250
You were cleaning up the apartment.

13:34.040 --> 13:34.840
Hey,

13:34.850 --> 13:37.500
takes a shower every day very clean about

13:37.500 --> 13:38.060
himself.

13:39.340 --> 13:40.540
Last week,

13:40.550 --> 13:41.660
when he was so disturbed,

13:41.660 --> 13:43.620
was his behavior peculiar at home?

13:43.620 --> 13:44.260
Yeah,

13:44.640 --> 13:47.370
it all started Wednesday night when I got

13:47.380 --> 13:48.570
married when I came home,

13:49.440 --> 13:50.140
by the way,

13:50.140 --> 13:50.830
he said,

13:50.840 --> 13:51.090
Dad,

13:51.090 --> 13:51.350
he says,

13:51.350 --> 13:52.110
I'm not gonna trouble you.

13:52.110 --> 13:53.280
I want to go to the hospital.

13:53.290 --> 13:54.700
I want to go to Rockland said.

13:54.700 --> 13:54.920
What?

13:54.920 --> 13:55.860
I'll stay home.

13:55.990 --> 13:57.220
We'll take care of you.

13:57.220 --> 13:57.870
You'll be all right.

13:57.870 --> 13:59.860
There's no he doesn't wanna.

14:00.240 --> 14:02.760
He doesn't want to make things worse for me.

14:03.940 --> 14:06.670
So finally I I

14:06.680 --> 14:07.530
calmed him down.

14:07.530 --> 14:07.890
I said,

14:08.340 --> 14:09.870
Let's get in touch with Dr Keith

14:11.210 --> 14:12.360
on board.

14:12.820 --> 14:15.200
That's when I called you Andi.

14:15.210 --> 14:16.240
I spoke to you.

14:16.240 --> 14:19.010
But is he rather a difficult problem for you to handle it?

14:19.020 --> 14:19.390
No,

14:19.390 --> 14:19.650
no,

14:19.650 --> 14:19.870
no,

14:19.870 --> 14:20.200
no.

14:20.200 --> 14:21.430
He's very nice.

14:21.940 --> 14:23.880
He's not difficulty.

14:23.880 --> 14:24.350
Oh,

14:24.360 --> 14:25.910
he's very nice.

14:25.920 --> 14:27.090
You do a lot for him.

14:27.420 --> 14:27.920
No,

14:27.920 --> 14:28.750
he does everything.

14:28.750 --> 14:31.610
So the only thing that I do is when he doesn't feel like going shopping.

14:31.990 --> 14:32.540
Hey,

14:32.540 --> 14:35.190
used to go shopping every Saturday on

14:35.190 --> 14:35.770
board.

14:36.240 --> 14:37.560
You stay care of the laundry.

14:38.640 --> 14:39.410
But there Recently,

14:39.410 --> 14:40.170
in the past few weeks,

14:40.170 --> 14:41.670
he stopped doing everything

14:42.640 --> 14:45.540
but this survey right

14:45.540 --> 14:47.160
after the visit with you,

14:47.290 --> 14:49.020
he did the laundry.

14:49.020 --> 14:50.730
I did the shopping on.

14:50.730 --> 14:52.570
We clean up the apartment way

14:53.540 --> 14:54.060
on.

14:54.070 --> 14:54.650
Hey,

14:54.650 --> 14:55.670
was all right over the language.

14:55.670 --> 14:56.870
Do you depend on him?

14:57.240 --> 14:59.300
I don't depend at all on it.

14:59.530 --> 15:02.170
I wonder if he has the feeling that that if

15:02.170 --> 15:04.250
he went off became independent,

15:04.250 --> 15:05.080
lead his own life.

15:05.090 --> 15:05.960
You'll be all alone.

15:06.840 --> 15:07.470
You have that said?

15:07.480 --> 15:07.730
Well,

15:07.740 --> 15:08.450
hey,

15:08.580 --> 15:10.350
he had that feeling here in the office

15:11.040 --> 15:12.450
that Thursday.

15:13.440 --> 15:14.340
Uh,

15:14.350 --> 15:15.300
when uh,

15:15.310 --> 15:16.390
you mentioned hospital?

15:16.440 --> 15:16.780
You know,

15:16.780 --> 15:18.140
he says to me,

15:18.150 --> 15:20.760
You think Dr people send me the hospital said

15:21.840 --> 15:22.760
I don't think he will.

15:23.070 --> 15:24.670
Then he says if he does,

15:24.670 --> 15:25.770
you're gonna be all alone.

15:27.540 --> 15:29.230
So I I said,

15:29.240 --> 15:30.190
don't worry about me.

15:31.140 --> 15:32.970
I can't believe that you

15:34.040 --> 15:36.320
He is worried about that.

15:36.330 --> 15:37.250
I'll be alone.

15:38.740 --> 15:39.320
Andi.

15:39.320 --> 15:41.650
I told him that there wouldn't be any problem.

15:43.740 --> 15:44.970
I told him many times It says,

15:44.970 --> 15:45.680
Go out world,

15:46.240 --> 15:46.930
get friends.

15:46.930 --> 15:49.840
He has no friends but I think he feels a

15:49.850 --> 15:52.750
tremendous sense of royalty when feels like

15:53.740 --> 15:56.690
that's why that's why he probably feels He feels

15:56.690 --> 15:59.660
that if he if he doesn't get better and go

15:59.660 --> 16:02.590
out with friends on

16:02.590 --> 16:04.060
DE so I'll be all alone.

16:04.230 --> 16:05.430
So I told him I said,

16:05.440 --> 16:05.930
Don't worry.

16:05.930 --> 16:06.250
I said,

16:06.250 --> 16:07.300
I have plenty of places to go.

16:07.300 --> 16:08.440
I have plenty of friends have.

16:08.450 --> 16:10.450
How much of a life of your own delete?

16:12.540 --> 16:12.820
Well,

16:12.830 --> 16:15.270
I don't.

16:15.740 --> 16:17.000
After all,

16:17.920 --> 16:20.890
I'm not an age where life has passed me

16:20.890 --> 16:21.580
by already.

16:21.590 --> 16:23.660
I'm gonna be 65 years old.

16:24.640 --> 16:26.450
I went hard all my life.

16:26.600 --> 16:29.170
I feel that

16:30.040 --> 16:31.040
How many more years?

16:31.040 --> 16:31.870
If I got to go?

16:33.740 --> 16:35.060
So I

16:36.140 --> 16:38.890
I go to visit my sister.

16:39.540 --> 16:40.080
Uh,

16:40.440 --> 16:42.060
I have a nephew.

16:43.340 --> 16:44.890
I have plenty of places to go.

16:44.890 --> 16:47.870
If if he would only shown inclination

16:48.240 --> 16:49.140
to settle down,

16:49.150 --> 16:49.790
I mean,

16:49.800 --> 16:50.830
that would be my feel.

16:50.830 --> 16:51.700
Probably my life.

16:51.710 --> 16:52.470
Leave him.

16:52.840 --> 16:53.240
No,

16:53.250 --> 16:54.760
I that's it.

16:55.140 --> 16:57.160
That said I couldn't even find

16:57.840 --> 16:58.510
e.

16:58.510 --> 17:01.460
I mean the way and the way he is

17:01.470 --> 17:02.680
way is now.

17:02.690 --> 17:03.060
See,

17:03.060 --> 17:03.460
he would.

17:04.240 --> 17:04.680
And I mean,

17:04.680 --> 17:05.660
leaving for a day,

17:05.670 --> 17:06.850
leaving for a weekend.

17:07.440 --> 17:08.460
You're leaving to go to work?

17:08.840 --> 17:09.090
Oh,

17:09.090 --> 17:09.350
yeah,

17:09.740 --> 17:10.120
Yeah.

17:10.130 --> 17:11.450
Could you leave me for a evening?

17:12.040 --> 17:12.250
Oh,

17:12.250 --> 17:12.530
yeah.

17:12.530 --> 17:13.360
Sure I could.

17:13.840 --> 17:14.440
I could leave.

17:14.480 --> 17:15.620
I couldn't even fucking see.

17:15.620 --> 17:16.130
What did you think?

17:16.130 --> 17:16.470
Obviously,

17:17.140 --> 17:18.760
E H

17:19.340 --> 17:20.890
The thing is,

17:20.890 --> 17:22.340
if if I would leave him,

17:22.340 --> 17:23.510
I know he would stay in the house.

17:23.510 --> 17:23.880
He wouldn't.

17:23.880 --> 17:25.610
He wouldn't go anywhere.

17:25.830 --> 17:26.180
Okay,

17:26.840 --> 17:29.570
One of the important ingredients and treating such

17:29.570 --> 17:31.540
patients is obviously to involve the family,

17:31.540 --> 17:34.420
as I'm doing right here talking to his father

17:34.430 --> 17:37.410
because it's in getting the family

17:37.410 --> 17:39.770
to understand how they are

17:39.780 --> 17:41.070
burdening the patient,

17:41.080 --> 17:42.010
how they are,

17:42.020 --> 17:42.650
uh,

17:42.660 --> 17:45.080
taking on a martyr role and

17:45.080 --> 17:47.820
creating what has been called a double bind

17:47.820 --> 17:50.770
situation where the messages to the patient are

17:50.780 --> 17:51.740
twofold.

17:51.750 --> 17:52.150
Uh,

17:52.160 --> 17:55.120
the father is encouraging him to get out

17:55.120 --> 17:58.090
on his own and to meet young people at the same time

17:58.310 --> 18:00.860
as he's doing all kinds of things to

18:00.860 --> 18:03.180
encourage and foster this dependency.

18:03.430 --> 18:06.150
It's clarifying that which is quite a

18:06.150 --> 18:06.600
task,

18:06.600 --> 18:09.490
but which is critical to the long range

18:09.630 --> 18:12.410
prognosis for this patient the

18:12.410 --> 18:15.320
important role of the therapist is to help the

18:15.320 --> 18:16.750
patient to,

18:16.760 --> 18:17.200
uh,

18:17.210 --> 18:19.550
make these decisions to take

18:19.550 --> 18:22.530
advantage of what strengths and resource is he

18:22.530 --> 18:25.370
has and not to focus so much on the psycho pathology.

18:25.740 --> 18:26.420
That is to say,

18:26.420 --> 18:27.170
in this instance,

18:27.170 --> 18:28.360
I've been talking with him,

18:28.360 --> 18:30.290
trying to understand the,

18:30.300 --> 18:30.960
uh,

18:30.970 --> 18:33.520
root of this delusion formation by

18:33.520 --> 18:35.900
way of trying to minimize it,

18:35.910 --> 18:36.760
uh,

18:36.770 --> 18:39.630
and to bring the problem down into a workable area.

18:39.640 --> 18:42.620
I don't really know very much about exercising devils,

18:42.630 --> 18:45.280
but I can help him to see how it's

18:45.280 --> 18:47.610
perfectly all right for him to go off on his own,

18:47.610 --> 18:50.600
that his father need not be so dependent upon him

18:50.760 --> 18:52.670
that he's not totally responsible.

18:53.040 --> 18:53.290
If,

18:53.290 --> 18:53.660
in fact,

18:53.660 --> 18:55.950
he's responsible at all for his father's welfare,

18:56.340 --> 18:59.070
it's not so much to tell him to rebel or be

18:59.070 --> 18:59.790
antagonistic,

18:59.800 --> 19:02.490
but to begin to think about his own welfare.

19:02.500 --> 19:03.910
And in the long run,

19:03.910 --> 19:06.560
that will have much more positive benefit for

19:06.560 --> 19:08.460
him as well as for his father.

19:43.340 --> 19:43.550
Yeah,

19:58.240 --> 19:58.450
yeah,