WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.066 [This audiovisual has been acquired for distribution by the National Medical Audiovisual Center] 00:00:10.066 --> 00:00:14.932 [Anatomy of a Sex History: The Wife's Husband] 00:00:14.933 --> 00:00:20.333 [From the Center for the Study of Sex Education in Medicine, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine] 00:00:20.333 --> 00:00:29.266 [Produced by Ortho Pharmceutical Corporation, Department of Educational Resources] 00:00:29.266 --> 00:00:36.099 [Dr. Harold Lief:] The film you are about to see is a sequel to the film entitled A Frigid Wife. 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:40.533 You may recall that at the end of that film, 00:00:40.533 --> 00:00:44.299 Dr. Reed, the interviewer, had asked the patient, Mrs. Martin, 00:00:44.300 --> 00:00:47.466 to return next time with her husband. 00:00:47.466 --> 00:00:52.332 It is important to review the previous film in order 00:00:52.333 --> 00:00:55.166 to fully appreciate this one. 00:00:55.166 --> 00:00:57.099 The one-to-one model of interviewing 00:00:57.100 --> 00:01:00.366 with which most clinicians are comfortable 00:01:00.366 --> 00:01:04.699 is inadequate in treating sexual problems. 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:11.100 We prefer the conjoint interviewing method. 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:14.600 Although clinicians may be uncomfortable with this method, 00:01:14.600 --> 00:01:17.733 we feel that this film is an effort 00:01:17.733 --> 00:01:19.699 to make them more comfortable 00:01:19.700 --> 00:01:23.800 and more competent with this form of treatment. 00:01:23.800 --> 00:01:26.900 It is crucial to see both people. 00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:30.300 And for this reason, the husband has been asked 00:01:30.300 --> 00:01:32.166 to come back with his wife. 00:01:32.166 --> 00:01:35.899 One way of phasing into the conjoint session 00:01:35.900 --> 00:01:40.333 when one partner has been seen alone is to see the spouse alone 00:01:40.333 --> 00:01:41.866 to begin with. 00:01:41.866 --> 00:01:44.766 And this is what Dr. Reed will do 00:01:44.766 --> 00:01:47.466 in this particular interview. 00:01:47.466 --> 00:01:49.899 This gives the spouse the feeling 00:01:49.900 --> 00:01:54.466 that he being given the same amount of time, 00:01:54.466 --> 00:02:00.466 and it avoids putting the blame or making one person 00:02:00.466 --> 00:02:02.899 the sick one. 00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:05.233 This is a way of emphasizing that we 00:02:05.233 --> 00:02:07.666 are treating the relationship. 00:02:07.666 --> 00:02:13.766 It's a way, also, of eliciting information from the spouse, 00:02:13.766 --> 00:02:16.899 and it gives us a chance to appraise 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:21.300 the husband's perception and compare it with the wife's. 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:25.133 We must, of course, enlist the husband's support, 00:02:25.133 --> 00:02:27.333 for without his support, we will not 00:02:27.333 --> 00:02:32.399 be effective in treating the wife's sexual problem. 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.766 As the scene of this interview opens, 00:02:35.766 --> 00:02:40.232 Bob, the husband of the patient that we had previously seen, 00:02:40.233 --> 00:02:43.799 is being interviewed by Dr. Reed. 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:45.866 Because of the limits of time, 00:02:45.866 --> 00:02:48.699 we will only show you the beginning and end 00:02:48.700 --> 00:02:50.933 of the interview with Bob, 00:02:50.933 --> 00:02:55.899 and then move from that into the conjoint interviewing session. 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:59.833 Following the conjoint session, as we do in all these films, 00:02:59.833 --> 00:03:03.799 we will have a replay analysis of interview techniques 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:05.866 and of interactional dynamics. 00:03:05.866 --> 00:03:13.866 Now let's turn and watch the interview as it unfolds. 00:03:13.866 --> 00:03:16.599 [Dr. Reed:] Mr. Martin, I appreciate your coming in. 00:03:16.600 --> 00:03:19.033 As you know, I saw Linda last week. 00:03:19.033 --> 00:03:21.099 May I call you Bob? [Bob:] Certainly. 00:03:21.100 --> 00:03:24.333 [Dr. Reed:] Tell me how you felt about coming in. 00:03:24.333 --> 00:03:26.733 I want very much to meet you and get your perspective, 00:03:26.733 --> 00:03:31.599 but do you have any reactions to her asking you to see me? 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:33.100 [Bob:] Irritation. 00:03:33.100 --> 00:03:33.900 [Dr. Reed:] Tell me about that. 00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:34.866 What do you mean? 00:03:34.866 --> 00:03:37.666 [Bob:] Well, I had to reshuffle an entire week's schedule. 00:03:37.666 --> 00:03:39.299 I'm afraid I'm very busy in the office. 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:40.000 [Dr. Reed:] You're a lawyer. 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:40.533 [Bob:] That's right. 00:03:40.533 --> 00:03:41.199 [Dr. Reed:] Right. 00:03:41.200 --> 00:03:45.533 [Bob:] And it required quite a bit of redoing. 00:03:45.533 --> 00:03:48.599 And I'm questioning the importance 00:03:48.600 --> 00:03:50.566 of my being here at all. 00:03:50.566 --> 00:03:52.966 [Dr. Reed:] So you have some personal irritation 00:03:52.966 --> 00:03:54.532 besides the professional? 00:03:54.533 --> 00:03:55.333 [Bob:] Oh, yes, of course. 00:03:55.333 --> 00:03:58.233 As I said, I'm very busy 00:03:58.233 --> 00:03:59.999 and this is Linda's problem, basically, 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:05.366 and I don't understand what value my being here can be. 00:04:05.366 --> 00:04:09.099 I don't think I can contribute anything that's significant 00:04:09.100 --> 00:04:12.900 except to probably restate what Linda's already said. 00:04:12.900 --> 00:04:15.033 [Dr. Reed:] Let me tell you my findings. 00:04:15.033 --> 00:04:18.966 I feel that Linda is suffering from some emotional blocks 00:04:18.966 --> 00:04:21.366 about her sexual performance. 00:04:21.366 --> 00:04:23.532 She felt she was frigid, which is a bad word. 00:04:23.533 --> 00:04:24.133 She's not. 00:04:24.133 --> 00:04:27.833 She simply doesn't have orgasm during intercourse. 00:04:27.833 --> 00:04:30.499 That means that you're involved. 00:04:30.500 --> 00:04:32.633 And I would like very much to have your perspective 00:04:32.633 --> 00:04:36.666 on the situation in order to be able to have you help her 00:04:36.666 --> 00:04:37.866 through me. 00:04:37.866 --> 00:04:39.732 Would this be a possibility? 00:04:39.733 --> 00:04:41.233 [Bob:] Well, I suppose it is. 00:04:41.233 --> 00:04:42.066 [Dr. Reed:] All right. 00:04:42.066 --> 00:04:44.266 Tell me, if you can, something about your analysis 00:04:44.266 --> 00:04:45.132 of the situation. 00:04:45.133 --> 00:04:46.866 How do you see it? 00:04:46.866 --> 00:04:52.699 [Bob:] Well, of course, I'm somewhat subjective about it, but... 00:04:52.700 --> 00:04:58.700 her sexual performance is diminished. 00:04:58.700 --> 00:05:01.500 She doesn't seem to be enjoying it. 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:06.833 Consequently, my enjoyment is a little less. 00:05:06.833 --> 00:05:09.933 She's snappy around the house, a little quick to anger. 00:05:09.933 --> 00:05:11.266 [Dr. Reed:] And you don't know why this is. 00:05:11.266 --> 00:05:12.466 [Bob:] No, no I don't. 00:05:12.466 --> 00:05:14.832 [Dr. Reed:] It's been about two months as far as you can tell? 00:05:14.833 --> 00:05:15.366 [Bob:] That's right. 00:05:15.366 --> 00:05:16.366 [Dr. Reed:] All right. 00:05:16.366 --> 00:05:19.099 Tell me, if you can, something, then, along these lines. 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:21.300 We'll get back to the cause of all this. 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:22.400 Something about yourself. 00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:25.100 Where do you come from and what kind of a sexual upbringing 00:05:25.100 --> 00:05:26.800 have you had? 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.900 [Bob:] I suppose I'm an average middle-class American. 00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:32.600 My parents went to church regularly. 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:34.500 They didn't discuss sex much. 00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:38.400 I don't think they had any particular [?] tie in. 00:05:38.400 --> 00:05:40.400 We had hotter and heavier arguments, 00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:44.600 but up to that point, everything had been going quite well. 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:46.700 Dr. Reed:] And you still can't quite explain 00:05:46.700 --> 00:05:49.066 why the sexual problem has occurred 00:05:49.066 --> 00:05:50.232 in the midst of all this. 00:05:50.233 --> 00:05:51.466 [Bob:] No, I can't. 00:05:51.466 --> 00:05:53.566 [Dr. Reed:] Let me give you some ideas about your own history, 00:05:53.566 --> 00:05:57.266 and then we'll get back to this and talk to Linda, too. 00:05:57.266 --> 00:05:59.866 Your own history indicates that you had 00:05:59.866 --> 00:06:01.732 a casual upbringing about sex. 00:06:01.733 --> 00:06:04.666 And most of the encounters that you've had with women 00:06:04.666 --> 00:06:07.099 are largely short-term relationships. 00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:11.000 Linda is the first complex relationship with a woman 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:11.700 that you've had. 00:06:11.700 --> 00:06:12.233 Am I correct? 00:06:12.233 --> 00:06:12.799 [Bob:] That's true. 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:13.766 [Dr. Reed:] All right. 00:06:13.766 --> 00:06:17.599 And apparently you're also a very busy guy 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.333 working on his career, and you said 00:06:20.333 --> 00:06:22.366 that there's lots of responsibilities 00:06:22.366 --> 00:06:26.332 on your shoulders concerning the home since you've been married. 00:06:26.333 --> 00:06:27.666 [Bob:] Of course. 00:06:27.666 --> 00:06:31.832 [Dr. Reed:] And the only thing you know is that in the past couple of months, 00:06:31.833 --> 00:06:33.466 Linda has become irritable 00:06:33.466 --> 00:06:37.199 and her sexual response has gone down, 00:06:37.200 --> 00:06:40.366 and that brings you here, and that's sort of up to date? 00:06:40.366 --> 00:06:41.166 Is that correct? 00:06:41.166 --> 00:06:43.366 [Bob:] Well, that's true. 00:06:43.366 --> 00:06:44.932 [Dr. Reed:] Now we've talked for a bit about this. 00:06:44.933 --> 00:06:48.266 Do you feel, having talked for a while, any more involved 00:06:48.266 --> 00:06:50.199 in the situation? 00:06:50.200 --> 00:06:53.533 [Bob:] There is obviously some involvement that I have. 00:06:53.533 --> 00:06:57.766 I'm still not convinced that the problem is based on that. 00:06:57.766 --> 00:07:02.966 But certainly the situation is a little more complex 00:07:02.966 --> 00:07:06.532 than I at first imagined. 00:07:06.533 --> 00:07:10.666 [Dr. Reed:] Let's bring Linda in now and talk it over. 00:07:10.666 --> 00:07:13.166 Before she comes in, do you have any questions for me? 00:07:13.166 --> 00:07:14.099 [Bob:] I don't think so. 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:14.600 [Dr. Reed:] All right. 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:20.100 We'll bring her in and go on with the rest of the session. 00:07:20.100 --> 00:07:23.733 Linda, Bob and I have just been talking in the same way 00:07:23.733 --> 00:07:26.799 that you and I talked as to how he views the situation 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.733 and what might be done to correct things 00:07:29.733 --> 00:07:31.866 as they've developed. 00:07:31.866 --> 00:07:34.999 I want to know something about your feelings, 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:37.733 for starters, in terms of being out there in the waiting room. 00:07:37.733 --> 00:07:39.099 Incidentally, I see you got your hair cut 00:07:39.100 --> 00:07:40.133 since you were here last. 00:07:40.133 --> 00:07:41.499 [Linda:] Yes, do you like it? 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:43.633 I feel like I needed a change of some kind. 00:07:43.633 --> 00:07:45.733 I don't think Bob likes it. 00:07:45.733 --> 00:07:47.233 [Bob:] I like it. 00:07:47.233 --> 00:07:48.333 [Linda:] Oh, you like long hair. 00:07:48.333 --> 00:07:49.799 You know you do. 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:50.566 [Bob:] Looks fine. 00:07:50.566 --> 00:07:51.166 Looks fine. 00:07:51.166 --> 00:07:51.866 [Linda:] Well, anyway. 00:07:51.866 --> 00:07:53.966 [Dr. Reed:] She didn't believe you. 00:07:53.966 --> 00:07:55.166 OK. 00:07:55.166 --> 00:07:57.032 How did you feel sitting out there? 00:07:57.033 --> 00:08:00.866 [Linda:] Well, a lot better today than I did last week when I was here. 00:08:00.866 --> 00:08:05.932 I feel much more relaxed, and... 00:08:05.933 --> 00:08:07.666 I'm anxious to talk about these things. 00:08:07.666 --> 00:08:11.532 When I went home I told Bob that I already felt a lot better. 00:08:11.533 --> 00:08:14.933 And if we could come together and talk, 00:08:14.933 --> 00:08:17.966 we could probably find out more about what was wrong. 00:08:17.966 --> 00:08:19.199 I was so relieved. 00:08:19.200 --> 00:08:21.333 I told him I was so relieved last week to find out 00:08:21.333 --> 00:08:26.933 I wasn't frigid because that had been one of my big worries. 00:08:26.933 --> 00:08:31.599 Also, I realized that I did have trouble communicating to Bob 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:33.100 how I felt. 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:35.200 [Dr. Reed:] Tell him now. Go ahead. 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.866 [Linda:] Well, you know I have trouble talking to you sometimes. 00:08:37.866 --> 00:08:41.399 I always feel like I'm on the witness stand, 00:08:41.400 --> 00:08:45.266 and I have to make a logical argument the way 00:08:45.266 --> 00:08:47.432 your clients do, or your colleagues do. 00:08:47.433 --> 00:08:49.466 [Bob:] You don't have to make a logical argument the way 00:08:49.466 --> 00:08:51.766 my clients or my colleagues do. 00:08:51.766 --> 00:08:53.899 All you have to do is make a logical argument. 00:08:53.900 --> 00:08:56.566 [Linda:] Well, sometimes, you know, it's hard to say 00:08:56.566 --> 00:08:57.799 exactly how you feel. 00:08:57.800 --> 00:09:00.766 I know I have that difficulty and I have to work on it. 00:09:00.766 --> 00:09:02.266 But that's one of the reasons you're here, 00:09:02.266 --> 00:09:04.032 because it's both of our problems, 00:09:04.033 --> 00:09:07.566 and because sometimes I think you don't listen to me. 00:09:07.566 --> 00:09:11.566 [Dr. Reed:] So what you picked up, if I may, the last time we were together, 00:09:11.566 --> 00:09:14.199 is that you have been trying to get through to Bob 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:15.866 and feel you've failed. 00:09:15.866 --> 00:09:18.999 And one of the side effects of this, 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.400 perhaps, has been the sexual problem. 00:09:21.400 --> 00:09:22.566 Am I correct? 00:09:22.566 --> 00:09:23.066 [Linda:] I guess. 00:09:23.066 --> 00:09:25.299 [Dr. Reed:] Something like that appears to be involved, 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:27.200 which is why it was important to bring you in. 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:31.333 Now if I can, Bob, would you tell Linda 00:09:31.333 --> 00:09:34.566 your summary, so to speak, of what we just talked about? 00:09:34.566 --> 00:09:37.499 Give her some feedback, and then we'll build on this. 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:39.033 Can you please? 00:09:39.033 --> 00:09:40.499 [Bob:] I presume you mean the... 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:42.066 [Dr. Reed:] What we just talked about. 00:09:42.066 --> 00:09:44.199 Tell her your view of what we just discussed. 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:48.966 [Bob:] Well, I guess we arrived at two main points, 00:09:48.966 --> 00:09:54.899 which were the fact that there is an involvement on my part 00:09:54.900 --> 00:09:59.200 with your problem, and the fact that ours 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.066 is a complex relationship, 00:10:02.066 --> 00:10:05.666 contrasted against the casual relationships that I had with other women 00:10:05.666 --> 00:10:06.632 before we were married. 00:10:06.633 --> 00:10:08.599 Ours is in a much more complex one, 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:10.733 and therefore the solutions to problems 00:10:10.733 --> 00:10:12.566 are a little more complex. 00:10:12.566 --> 00:10:14.632 I think that about touches it, doesn't it? 00:10:14.633 --> 00:10:17.599 [Bob:] Well, why don't you check that out with Linda? 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:19.300 [Linda:] So cut and dried. 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:21.066 [Dr. Reed:] Let me ask you a question. 00:10:21.066 --> 00:10:27.432 When Linda get emotional, what goes on in you? 00:10:27.433 --> 00:10:32.199 What do you feel at a gut level when she gets emotional? 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.033 [Bob:] Well, I just find it impossible to deal with that, 00:10:35.033 --> 00:10:37.066 with anyone on that level. 00:10:37.066 --> 00:10:38.099 What am I supposed to do? 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:39.733 Am I supposed to get equally emotional, 00:10:39.733 --> 00:10:41.233 and then we get nowhere? 00:10:41.233 --> 00:10:43.299 [Dr. Reed:] I don't know. What do you do? 00:10:43.300 --> 00:10:48.033 [Bob:] What I try to do is to calm her down and to the point 00:10:48.033 --> 00:10:50.666 where we can talk rationally, 00:10:50.666 --> 00:10:54.899 and not with a great deal of emotion, which is unintelligible. 00:10:54.900 --> 00:10:55.466 [Dr. Reed:] I see. 00:10:55.466 --> 00:10:58.566 [Linda:] But you never seem to sense anything. 00:10:58.566 --> 00:11:01.532 I feel like I can sense your mood or sense your needs, 00:11:01.533 --> 00:11:03.266 and you don't ever seem to sense mine. 00:11:03.266 --> 00:11:04.899 You're always distracted. 00:11:04.900 --> 00:11:06.966 You're not romantic anymore. 00:11:06.966 --> 00:11:09.266 You don't ever touch me. 00:11:09.266 --> 00:11:12.366 You know, it's always just, let's go to bed. 00:11:12.366 --> 00:11:14.066 [Dr. Reed:] You seem to have some hostilities here 00:11:14.066 --> 00:11:18.266 that are getting the better of you in your relationship, 00:11:18.266 --> 00:11:20.032 and I'd like you to keep that in mind 00:11:20.033 --> 00:11:23.366 because I'm very aware of them, that you're drifting apart 00:11:23.366 --> 00:11:26.766 and you have some differences and grievances 00:11:26.766 --> 00:11:29.399 that haven't been brought to the light of day. 00:11:29.400 --> 00:11:32.433 Now let's go back to this kind of a situation. 00:11:32.433 --> 00:11:36.999 I want you to try to go back in your mind to an experience 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:43.433 somewhere where things got bleak in the sexual area. 00:11:43.433 --> 00:11:45.966 What did you try to do that failed in some way 00:11:45.966 --> 00:11:49.032 when it somehow wasn't quite the same thereafter? 00:11:49.033 --> 00:11:50.699 Can you think of some... 00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:51.700 do you know what I mean? 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:56.900 [Linda:] I can remember one very specific incident when things 00:11:56.900 --> 00:11:59.466 were getting bad between us, 00:11:59.466 --> 00:12:03.399 and I began to feel unattractive, 00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:05.400 that he wasn't attracted to me, 00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:08.500 never sensed that I needed anything. 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:11.766 He seemed so distracted all the time. 00:12:11.766 --> 00:12:14.499 So one day I, 00:12:14.500 --> 00:12:17.200 I always keep the house very clean, and when he comes home 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.733 there's not garbage all around from the kids. 00:12:19.733 --> 00:12:22.233 I always try to keep a nice atmosphere for him 00:12:22.233 --> 00:12:22.999 to come home to. 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:27.000 But this particular night, I had cooked a special dinner 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:32.066 from Gourmet cookbook, and I had a low-cut dress on, 00:12:32.066 --> 00:12:33.132 and I had the lights down. 00:12:33.133 --> 00:12:35.299 I had candles on the table. 00:12:35.300 --> 00:12:38.766 I had everything, you know, I wanted to show him that 00:12:38.766 --> 00:12:42.666 I wanted to be attractive for him, and I wanted him to think of me as a... 00:12:42.666 --> 00:12:44.532 [Dr. Reed:] Tell him the story while you're [?] 00:12:44.533 --> 00:12:45.399 [Linda:] As a woman. 00:12:45.400 --> 00:12:48.200 [Dr. Reed:] You seem to know what she's talking about. Do you? 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:49.966 [Bob:] I know now, yes, what she's talking about. 00:12:49.966 --> 00:12:53.099 [Dr. Reed:] All right. Go ahead, finish... 00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:57.466 [Linda:] Because, well, he came in, didn't even notice 00:12:57.466 --> 00:12:59.932 that I had anything different on or that there were candles 00:12:59.933 --> 00:13:04.033 on the table, or even smelled the fantastic aroma of the food 00:13:04.033 --> 00:13:05.066 I was cooking. 00:13:05.066 --> 00:13:07.766 Walked right through the room. 00:13:07.766 --> 00:13:10.166 I had made sure the kids stayed with my parents. 00:13:10.166 --> 00:13:11.532 He walked right through the room, 00:13:11.533 --> 00:13:14.633 opened his briefcase, fumbled around, papers, 00:13:14.633 --> 00:13:17.966 turned around, said, where are the kids? 00:13:17.966 --> 00:13:21.699 [Dr. Reed:] And then what happened after he did that? 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:24.366 [Bob:] She launched into hysterics. 00:13:24.366 --> 00:13:26.399 [Linda:] Not right away! 00:13:26.400 --> 00:13:29.633 [Bob:] Well, if it wasn't right away, it was certainly very fast. 00:13:29.633 --> 00:13:34.533 I walked in, and as she says, I can't remember 00:13:34.533 --> 00:13:35.633 what it was I was doing. 00:13:35.633 --> 00:13:37.933 But I'd just come in from a busy day at the office, 00:13:37.933 --> 00:13:39.533 and I had some something on my mind 00:13:39.533 --> 00:13:41.766 about something I was going to be doing the next day, 00:13:41.766 --> 00:13:43.032 preparing a brief or something. 00:13:43.033 --> 00:13:44.766 [Linda:] You always do. 00:13:44.766 --> 00:13:46.299 [Bob:] Well, that's the nature of my business. 00:13:46.300 --> 00:13:52.133 But at any rate, I walk in, and then was 00:13:52.133 --> 00:13:55.133 prepared to be a father and husband, as I 00:13:55.133 --> 00:13:56.633 thought would be nice to do, 00:13:56.633 --> 00:13:58.499 and I said, where's the kids? 00:13:58.500 --> 00:13:59.733 And she launched into a scene. 00:13:59.733 --> 00:14:01.366 [Linda:] Well, how could you turn and look at me 00:14:01.366 --> 00:14:03.399 in a beautiful dress like that with candlelight 00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:04.466 and say where's the kids? 00:14:04.466 --> 00:14:06.466 I'm not just a housemaid. 00:14:06.466 --> 00:14:10.832 [Bob:] I hardly had time to take a look at the stage setting. 00:14:10.833 --> 00:14:12.766 [Linda:] That's ridiculous. You'd have to be blind. 00:14:12.766 --> 00:14:15.199 That was then that I decided he really 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:17.033 wasn't attracted to me at all anymore, 00:14:17.033 --> 00:14:19.033 and that he probably saw women from the office. 00:14:19.033 --> 00:14:19.833 I didn't know. 00:14:19.833 --> 00:14:20.833 [Bob:] Oh, that's ridiculous. 00:14:20.833 --> 00:14:23.366 [Linda:] Well, that's the way I felt. 00:14:23.366 --> 00:14:27.932 [Dr. Reed:] This fight that you're having, a struggle for power 00:14:27.933 --> 00:14:30.299 within this relationship, is something 00:14:30.300 --> 00:14:33.733 that has to be settled, not in the sense of having a winner 00:14:33.733 --> 00:14:36.099 and a loser, which is what you've done...you win, 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:39.900 she loses, and out goes sex. 00:14:39.900 --> 00:14:41.566 There's got to be, perhaps, a better way 00:14:41.566 --> 00:14:44.899 to work out your hostilities and your grievances 00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:47.433 and your anxieties than just kind of carrying away 00:14:47.433 --> 00:14:48.599 at each other. 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:50.333 I think you can see that what you do 00:14:50.333 --> 00:14:53.233 is you tend to overreact, both of you. 00:14:53.233 --> 00:14:56.266 You both tend to overreact to each other. 00:14:56.266 --> 00:15:01.666 You get really, too tense, when she gets over-emotional, if you will. 00:15:01.666 --> 00:15:04.432 And you get too tense when he gets too preoccupied. 00:15:04.433 --> 00:15:06.499 And rather than try to engage each other 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:09.100 and, like, negotiate about that or deal with it, 00:15:09.100 --> 00:15:11.333 you tend to both withdraw. 00:15:11.333 --> 00:15:16.999 And your sexual problem is a result of that withdrawal. 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.766 She can't respond to you because she feels 00:15:18.766 --> 00:15:22.499 put down by you, as though she's constantly 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.200 got this residual anger, can't get it out, 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:28.000 and that's when sex gets turned off. 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.733 If you could handle this level of communication 00:15:31.733 --> 00:15:33.699 between you, if you can start to get acquainted 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:37.633 in the non-sexual area, which seems like it's possible 00:15:37.633 --> 00:15:39.866 that you can recognize that you really have something 00:15:39.866 --> 00:15:44.332 to go with, you seem to have much fondness for each other. 00:15:44.333 --> 00:15:46.999 What you're no good at is having a good, healthy argument, 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:48.600 which just gets the feelings out. 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.266 If you can handle thatin a non-sexual area, 00:15:51.266 --> 00:15:53.666 let's move on to the sexual. 00:15:53.666 --> 00:15:57.732 I'm going to try to change the topic in some way, slightly. 00:15:57.733 --> 00:16:00.633 Seems to me that what we've got to do with the sexual area 00:16:00.633 --> 00:16:02.866 is also get you reacquainted. 00:16:02.866 --> 00:16:05.699 What I want to do is suggest this. 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:08.400 For the next three nights, I'm going 00:16:08.400 --> 00:16:11.433 to ask you to make a deal with me, 00:16:11.433 --> 00:16:14.799 and that is, you agree to meet in your bedroom 00:16:14.800 --> 00:16:17.433 and do some things thatI'm going to suggest. 00:16:17.433 --> 00:16:19.099 Now the first thing I'm going to suggest 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:21.200 is no fighting in the bedroom. 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.200 If you're going to work on your sexual response, 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.633 have your fight someplace else. 00:16:24.633 --> 00:16:27.899 Don't have it about sex, OK? 00:16:27.900 --> 00:16:29.966 What I'd like us to do is to learn 00:16:29.966 --> 00:16:34.299 about your sexual expression with each other. 00:16:34.300 --> 00:16:36.266 Not fight about sex. 00:16:36.266 --> 00:16:38.566 The second thing is no intercourse 00:16:38.566 --> 00:16:40.332 until further notice. 00:16:40.333 --> 00:16:45.033 I'd like you to begin some kind of sexual fun, 00:16:45.033 --> 00:16:47.966 some kind of pleasure together that excludes intercourse. 00:16:47.966 --> 00:16:50.732 Do you know why that's important? 00:16:50.733 --> 00:16:51.266 [Bob:] Not yet. 00:16:51.266 --> 00:16:57.966 [Linda:] Every time intercourse is likely to occur, a couple of messages 00:16:57.966 --> 00:16:59.432 go through Linda's mind. 00:16:59.433 --> 00:17:06.999 One is you're getting your way, and the second is, she's gonna fail. 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.233 So she cannot anticipate any reward. 00:17:11.233 --> 00:17:14.166 And what she does is she enters the bedroom, 00:17:14.166 --> 00:17:16.099 and she's going to have to perform, 00:17:16.100 --> 00:17:18.900 and then she has to say relax, damn it, relax, 00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:19.900 and she fails again. 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:21.900 And that becomes a vicious cycle. 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:23.500 [Bob:] That conditioned reflex we were talking about. 00:17:23.500 --> 00:17:24.366 [Dr. Reed:] Right. 00:17:24.366 --> 00:17:27.399 I need your help to help her with that. 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:28.333 This is what I suggest. 00:17:28.333 --> 00:17:31.733 Now I would like you to do something for me, to learn. 00:17:31.733 --> 00:17:34.966 Would you reach over and touch Bob's hand, OK? 00:17:34.966 --> 00:17:37.866 Caress his hand in some way and show me how you might do this. 00:17:37.866 --> 00:17:40.032 Just take his hand, and I don't think he'll hit you. 00:17:40.033 --> 00:17:40.866 Go ahead. 00:17:40.866 --> 00:17:42.632 Try. 00:17:42.633 --> 00:17:43.133 Go ahead. 00:17:43.133 --> 00:17:43.799 Caress his hand. 00:17:43.800 --> 00:17:46.466 What goes through your mind as you do this now? 00:17:46.466 --> 00:17:47.732 Describe what it is you think. 00:17:47.733 --> 00:17:48.699 [Linda:] It feels good. 00:17:48.700 --> 00:17:50.500 [Bob:] Working in the garden. 00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:51.566 [Linda:] When? 00:17:51.566 --> 00:17:54.299 [Bob:] Occasionally I do. 00:17:54.300 --> 00:17:55.400 [Linda:] What goes through my mind? 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:55.900 [Dr. Reed:] Yeah. 00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:58.233 You're wondering about his hand, and... 00:17:58.233 --> 00:17:58.733 Yeah. 00:17:58.733 --> 00:18:01.866 [Linda:] I feel the hairs on his hand. 00:18:01.866 --> 00:18:02.532 [Dr. Reed:] Fair enough. 00:18:02.533 --> 00:18:03.033 All right. 00:18:03.033 --> 00:18:03.899 I'd like you to stop. 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.066 Now Bob, would you mind, do this in return. 00:18:06.066 --> 00:18:08.566 Would you touch her hand in some way? 00:18:08.566 --> 00:18:11.699 And tell me what goes through your mind as you do this now? 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.933 Go ahead. 00:18:14.933 --> 00:18:23.099 [Bob:] I feel her skin and her bones, knuckles. 00:18:23.100 --> 00:18:24.100 [Dr. Reed:] All right. 00:18:24.100 --> 00:18:28.866 Now both of you focused on the other person's hand. 00:18:28.866 --> 00:18:31.032 You wondered about her hand, you wondered about his. 00:18:31.033 --> 00:18:32.033 Am I correct? 00:18:32.033 --> 00:18:34.433 You both wondered about the receiver. 00:18:34.433 --> 00:18:37.166 Now I'm going to suggest that the next three nights, 00:18:37.166 --> 00:18:39.666 when you touch, change that. 00:18:39.666 --> 00:18:42.766 Rather than trying to worry about the receiving hand, 00:18:42.766 --> 00:18:44.632 if you do this to yourself, you see, 00:18:44.633 --> 00:18:47.066 we typically think about the receiving hand, 00:18:47.066 --> 00:18:48.832 think about the sender. 00:18:48.833 --> 00:18:51.066 When you touch each other, don't worry so much 00:18:51.066 --> 00:18:52.799 about what the receiver is getting. 00:18:52.800 --> 00:18:55.500 Think about what you're getting out of it. 00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:59.566 Think about what you go through when you're touching 00:18:59.566 --> 00:19:00.799 your partner in some way. 00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:03.000 [Linda:] But isn't that just selfish, 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.800 just to think about what feels good to me? 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:06.000 [Dr. Reed:] Yes, it is. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.133 But it's selfish within a good relationship, 00:19:08.133 --> 00:19:11.099 within some capacity for concern. 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:12.866 The reason it's important is this. 00:19:12.866 --> 00:19:13.799 Now watch. 00:19:13.800 --> 00:19:19.433 When she starts to be concerned about her own sexual comfort, 00:19:19.433 --> 00:19:21.933 she gets critical and then she withdraws. 00:19:21.933 --> 00:19:24.099 Part of her is up there in the corner of the bedroom 00:19:24.100 --> 00:19:25.466 saying relax. 00:19:25.466 --> 00:19:29.199 The moment that happens, you're trapped. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.500 When that starts to happen, I'd like you 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:34.066 to be able to touch this guy in such a way 00:19:34.066 --> 00:19:35.332 that you are pleased. 00:19:35.333 --> 00:19:35.833 Not him. 00:19:35.833 --> 00:19:36.633 He'll be all right. 00:19:36.633 --> 00:19:38.599 He'll tell you if it's no good. 00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:40.100 And in order to get to this point. 00:19:40.100 --> 00:19:42.633 I'd like you to learn that. 00:19:42.633 --> 00:19:43.999 So for the next three nights, 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.700 I'd like you to get physically acquainted 00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:49.133 without touching the breasts or the genitals 00:19:49.133 --> 00:19:52.833 on the basis of, as you touch, are you giving to your partner 00:19:52.833 --> 00:19:55.766 some kind of caressing, some sensual expression? 00:19:55.766 --> 00:19:57.599 The reason you're doing it is because 00:19:57.600 --> 00:20:00.700 you're getting something from it. 00:20:00.700 --> 00:20:01.633 Do you understand? 00:20:01.633 --> 00:20:02.899 You look a little puzzled, Bob. 00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:03.666 Do you understand? 00:20:03.666 --> 00:20:04.166 [Bob:] Yeah, I... 00:20:04.166 --> 00:20:05.566 [Dr. Reed:] Is it worth a try? 00:20:05.566 --> 00:20:10.732 [Bob:] I suppose so. It just seems like a very artificial kind of setup. 00:20:10.733 --> 00:20:14.566 [Linda:] I would like to try it. That's what I miss about... 00:20:14.566 --> 00:20:17.666 remember before we began to have sex, 00:20:17.666 --> 00:20:20.899 we did a lot of holding hands and silly things. 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:24.400 But I really, I miss that. 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.433 [Dr. Reed:] It's called foreplay. 00:20:25.433 --> 00:20:28.699 A lot of people make it forework, which is too bad. 00:20:28.700 --> 00:20:31.466 Now let me explain his dilemma. 00:20:31.466 --> 00:20:34.399 He's an ordinary American male 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.233 who was brought up in a casual atmosphere about sex 00:20:37.233 --> 00:20:40.266 and really hasn't had very close, longstanding 00:20:40.266 --> 00:20:43.266 intimate relationships with women. 00:20:43.266 --> 00:20:47.299 And also, he is conditioned, as a sexual animal, 00:20:47.300 --> 00:20:51.200 to really be more concerned about his genital sensations 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.400 than anything else. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.566 We're like that. 00:20:53.566 --> 00:20:57.199 We don't have the same kind of skin hunger 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.566 that the Lindas of the world have for a total caressing experience. 00:21:01.566 --> 00:21:03.966 Our bodies aren't used to that. 00:21:03.966 --> 00:21:05.699 And I really bring this us up because 00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:10.600 I think that the women are right, that their desires for a more 00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:14.566 generalized sexual experience are probably healthier 00:21:14.566 --> 00:21:17.799 than just you and I, who get a genital sensation, get aroused, 00:21:17.800 --> 00:21:19.800 and want to get to it, down to the nitty gritty, 00:21:19.800 --> 00:21:21.766 and stop all this messing around. 00:21:21.766 --> 00:21:24.066 That's what you call artificial. 00:21:24.066 --> 00:21:26.466 I'd like to suggest that we do this 00:21:26.466 --> 00:21:29.266 because it's going to be rather like learning a new sport... 00:21:29.266 --> 00:21:31.066 [Linda laughs uncomfortably] 00:21:31.066 --> 00:21:35.232 [Dr. Reed:] At first artificial, but then you'll slip into it naturally. 00:21:35.233 --> 00:21:38.866 What I'm going to ask you to do is simply record in your mind 00:21:38.866 --> 00:21:40.966 what it's like to receive. 00:21:40.966 --> 00:21:45.499 You take 10 minutes each, all right? 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:49.400 10 minutes giving and 10 minutes receiving each, each night. 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:51.233 And your task when you return here 00:21:51.233 --> 00:21:55.599 will be to share with us what it is you went through as a giver 00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:56.700 and as a receiver. 00:21:56.700 --> 00:22:01.033 And we'll try to start out your signals. 00:22:01.033 --> 00:22:02.799 You're not working clearly with each other 00:22:02.800 --> 00:22:05.166 in the sexual communication sphere. 00:22:05.166 --> 00:22:06.866 You're misreading things. 00:22:06.866 --> 00:22:09.632 You hoped he could understand you without being clear, 00:22:09.633 --> 00:22:11.999 and you end up overreacting when she's getting emotional, 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.100 whether it has to do with sex or not. 00:22:14.100 --> 00:22:17.000 And that has created this kind of Mexican standoff 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.700 that you run into every now and then. 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:21.300 So what I want to do is come back, 00:22:21.300 --> 00:22:23.800 and we'll work on the sexual pattern. 00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:28.400 We'll go next to caressing the genital area and the breasts, 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.266 and then the face. 00:22:29.266 --> 00:22:31.099 Beyond that, we'll go to intercourse itself. 00:22:31.100 --> 00:22:35.566 But this one is as I described it, kind of the early phase. 00:22:35.566 --> 00:22:38.132 Your marriage can obviously work out fine 00:22:38.133 --> 00:22:39.766 if you just work at it. 00:22:39.766 --> 00:22:42.199 You're too preoccupied, and you have to get back in it. 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.866 And you've got to be able to get through 00:22:43.866 --> 00:22:45.766 without being so threatening. 00:22:45.766 --> 00:22:46.899 OK? 00:22:46.900 --> 00:22:49.733 It's not that difficult if you let her hang in there. 00:22:49.733 --> 00:22:52.599 [Bob:] Hmmm. 00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:56.500 [Dr. Reed:] So I think you can see we want to work out both the non-sexual 00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.800 and the sexual together. 00:22:57.800 --> 00:22:59.900 For now, correct the sexual pattern, 00:22:59.900 --> 00:23:01.833 and I think you'll have an interesting time. 00:23:01.833 --> 00:23:04.466 I think you'll see that it'll have a ripple effect 00:23:04.466 --> 00:23:06.566 and improve lots of things. 00:23:06.566 --> 00:23:09.332 All we have to do is learn. 00:23:09.333 --> 00:23:12.466 So I'll see you in a few days, and we'll get together then. 00:23:12.466 --> 00:23:13.699 [Linda:] Okay. 00:23:13.700 --> 00:23:14.800 [Dr. Reed:] Fair enough? 00:23:14.800 --> 00:23:16.100 [Bob:] Well, we'll give it a try. 00:23:16.100 --> 00:23:18.433 [Dr. Reed:] OK. See you then. 00:23:18.433 --> 00:23:23.699 [Linda:] Thank you. 00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:28.133 [Dr. Lief:] As we always do, we will now take a closer look 00:23:28.133 --> 00:23:29.999 at the interview. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:32.766 The viewer should pay particular attention 00:23:32.766 --> 00:23:35.532 to the interaction between husband and wife, 00:23:35.533 --> 00:23:39.399 as well as the interaction between the doctor 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.266 and the couple. 00:23:41.266 --> 00:23:44.166 We are interested in all dimensions 00:23:44.166 --> 00:23:46.466 of interactional dynamics. 00:23:46.466 --> 00:23:51.466 We are also concerned with interview techniques. 00:23:51.466 --> 00:23:55.332 Through instant replay, we will observe 00:23:55.333 --> 00:24:02.566 these details more thoroughly. 00:24:02.566 --> 00:24:04.599 [Dr. Reed:] You have some personal irritation 00:24:04.600 --> 00:24:06.100 besides the professional? 00:24:06.100 --> 00:24:07.000 [Bob:] Oh yes, of course. 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.666 As I said, I'm very busy, and this is Linda's problem, basically, 00:24:11.666 --> 00:24:16.999 and I don't understand what value my being here can be. 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.366 I don't think I can contribute anything that's significant. 00:24:20.366 --> 00:24:22.966 [Dr. Lief:] Anger at being involved in therapy 00:24:22.966 --> 00:24:26.599 is commonplace, especially if this partner 00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:30.900 himself has no problem with sexual performance. 00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:35.233 He would like to make his spouse the sick one, and at some level 00:24:35.233 --> 00:24:37.366 is fearful that he will be judged 00:24:37.366 --> 00:24:39.699 to be an ineffective lover. 00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:42.633 It takes some education to get husband and wife 00:24:42.633 --> 00:24:45.366 to focus on the relationship and to 00:24:45.366 --> 00:24:47.799 stop blaming each other or oneself. 00:24:47.800 --> 00:24:51.233 The therapist is taking time to educate 00:24:51.233 --> 00:24:56.566 Bob about his part in the relationship. 00:24:56.566 --> 00:24:58.966 This reduces confusion and gives him 00:24:58.966 --> 00:25:01.766 the feeling that he will get something of value 00:25:01.766 --> 00:25:04.566 from becoming involved in treatment. 00:25:04.566 --> 00:25:07.366 This "sells him" that the results may 00:25:07.366 --> 00:25:10.099 be worth the price and paves the way 00:25:10.100 --> 00:25:15.133 for more effective cooperation in the conjoint interview. 00:25:15.133 --> 00:25:18.299 [Dr. Reed:] I want to know something about your feelings, 00:25:18.300 --> 00:25:20.900 for starters, in terms of being out there in the waiting room. 00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:22.333 Incidentally, I see you got your hair cut 00:25:22.333 --> 00:25:23.366 since you were here last. 00:25:23.366 --> 00:25:24.766 [Linda:] Oh yes, do you like it? 00:25:24.766 --> 00:25:26.899 I felt like I needed a change of some kind. 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:29.033 I don't think Bob likes it. 00:25:29.033 --> 00:25:30.466 [Bob:] I like it. 00:25:30.466 --> 00:25:31.632 [Linda:] Oh, you like long hair. 00:25:31.633 --> 00:25:33.166 You know you do. 00:25:33.166 --> 00:25:33.999 [Bob:] Looks fine. 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.266 It looks fine. 00:25:36.266 --> 00:25:40.399 [Dr. Lief:] You will note that the therapeutic relationship begins 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.400 immediately. 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:51.366 Linda, who has a new hairstyle, turns to the therapist 00:25:51.366 --> 00:25:54.399 for affirmation. 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.866 His response is important to her. 00:25:58.866 --> 00:26:01.066 Her self-esteem is low. 00:26:01.066 --> 00:26:03.566 She needs constant reassurance 00:26:03.566 --> 00:26:05.899 that she is attractive and lovable. 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:10.166 Even when her husband gives her the support 00:26:10.166 --> 00:26:14.632 and shows signs of his affection, she doesn't hear it 00:26:14.633 --> 00:26:17.966 or she tunes him out, even though she readily 00:26:17.966 --> 00:26:19.766 hears his criticisms. 00:26:19.766 --> 00:26:22.532 This is a classical gambit of the person 00:26:22.533 --> 00:26:25.966 whose self-esteem is low. 00:26:25.966 --> 00:26:29.499 The therapist must be very careful 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:34.333 not to overplay his hand in this type of situation. 00:26:34.333 --> 00:26:36.999 [Bob:] When I point out what is obvious 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:41.800 is that she either does that, which is just disappears, 00:26:41.800 --> 00:26:44.333 or she gets completely irrational 00:26:44.333 --> 00:26:46.699 and eventually hysterical. 00:26:46.700 --> 00:26:50.500 And I try to keep whatever discussion 00:26:50.500 --> 00:26:54.366 we're having on an intelligent level 00:26:54.366 --> 00:26:55.566 rather than an emotional one. 00:26:55.566 --> 00:26:59.466 [Dr. Lief:] Notice his perception of the communication process. 00:26:59.466 --> 00:27:02.899 If he expresses himself well, he believes 00:27:02.900 --> 00:27:06.266 he has handled communication effectively. 00:27:06.266 --> 00:27:10.099 He fails to consider if his message is getting across 00:27:10.100 --> 00:27:15.066 to his wife and leaves out a consideration: 00:27:15.066 --> 00:27:17.266 his listening and understanding his wife. 00:27:17.266 --> 00:27:21.066 Note, too, his overemphasis of the verbal, 00:27:21.066 --> 00:27:25.599 logical, rational aspects and his underemphasis 00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:30.866 of the emotional dimensions of communication. 00:27:30.866 --> 00:27:34.299 Decreasing his need to control 00:27:34.300 --> 00:27:39.400 and increasing her control of her feelings 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:44.033 and the expression of those feelings will be the job 00:27:44.033 --> 00:27:45.999 of the skilled marriage counselor. 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.733 [Dr. Reed:] Let's go back to this kind of a situation. 00:27:48.733 --> 00:27:53.333 I want you to try to go back in your mind to an experience 00:27:53.333 --> 00:27:58.033 somewhere where things got bleak in the sexual area. 00:27:58.033 --> 00:28:03.099 What did you try to do that failed in some way, when... 00:28:03.100 --> 00:28:08.466 [Dr. Lief:] Dr. Reed takes the pair from the general to the specific 00:28:08.466 --> 00:28:11.899 in order to see how the abstractions they have 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:15.766 been hurling at each other are played out 00:28:15.766 --> 00:28:18.432 around a specific event. 00:28:18.433 --> 00:28:23.399 After concentrating on their relationship 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:28.100 and decreasing their angry feelings somewhat, 00:28:28.100 --> 00:28:32.033 and partially clarifying the problem in communication, 00:28:32.033 --> 00:28:35.833 the therapist feels that he has paved 00:28:35.833 --> 00:28:40.699 the way for a specific sexual reeducation. 00:28:40.700 --> 00:28:42.433 This is a subtle point. 00:28:42.433 --> 00:28:48.333 The timing of this may be difficult to ascertain. 00:28:48.333 --> 00:28:48.366 If it is premature, the couple will sabotage 00:28:48.366 --> 00:28:54.032 the specific techniques explained by the therapist. 00:28:54.033 --> 00:28:56.866 If this happens, the resistances to therapy 00:28:56.866 --> 00:29:00.132 will be dealt with directly, the couple learning 00:29:00.133 --> 00:29:04.233 from their mistakes something more about the nature 00:29:04.233 --> 00:29:05.566 of their relationship. 00:29:05.566 --> 00:29:08.232 [Dr. Reed:] What you're no good at is having a good, healthy argument, 00:29:08.233 --> 00:29:09.566 which just gets the feelings out. 00:29:09.566 --> 00:29:12.499 Now if you can handle that in the non-sexual area, 00:29:12.500 --> 00:29:14.900 let's move on to the sexual. 00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:19.000 I'm gonna try to change the topic in some way slightly. 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.900 Seems to me that what we've got to do with the sexual area 00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:24.333 is also get you reacquainted. 00:29:24.333 --> 00:29:28.966 [Dr. Lief:] Make careful note of the therapist's emphasis 00:29:28.966 --> 00:29:35.466 on the broad range of sensual feelings and behavior, 00:29:35.466 --> 00:29:39.666 decreasing the emphasis on genitality. 00:29:39.666 --> 00:29:44.366 This allows people to de-emphasize 00:29:44.366 --> 00:29:49.366 the performance aspects of their relationship. 00:29:49.366 --> 00:29:55.332 Hopefully, this is the beginning of a continuous learning process. 00:29:55.333 --> 00:30:00.333 Couples not infrequently learn more from their mistakes 00:30:00.333 --> 00:30:07.366 than from their successes. 00:30:07.366 --> 00:30:12.232 [Harold M. Lief, M.D., Director of the Center; David M. Reed, PhD., MPH, Assistant Director of the Center] 00:30:12.233 --> 00:30:16.599 [Executive Producer, Charles Galbraith; Producer-Director, Stan Carlson] 00:30:16.600 --> 00:30:21.466 [Video Tape Editor, Bob Howard] 00:30:21.466 --> 00:30:33.132 [Produced through the facilities of Northwest Mobile Television] 00:30:33.133 --> 00:35:26.066 [End of film]