WEBVTT

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[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] History of
medicine seminar,

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one of the special
events that we're

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putting on to mark African-American
History Month.

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I'm very pleased to be able to
introduce Margaret Humphreys.

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She is the Josiah Charles
Trent professor

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in the history of medicine
at Duke University

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and she is also a professor
of medicine at Duke.

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She received her
PhD from Harvard

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and she is the author of
Yellow Fever and The South.

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And, Malaria: Poverty
Race, and Public Health

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in the United States.

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Books that explore
the tropical disease

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environment of
the American South

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and its role in the National
public health effort.

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Now in the spring of
2008, Dr. Humphreys

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published her latest book,
Intensely Human, The Health

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Of The Black Soldier In
The American Civil War.

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And this is her topic for today.

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She teaches history of medicine,
public health, and biology

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at Duke University,
where she also

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edits the Journal of
the History of Medicine.

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Her current research
project concerns

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the impact of the Civil
War on American medicine.

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Now just before
she starts, I want

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to mention that the next
history of medicine seminar

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will be on Wednesday
March, 23.

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Here in the Lister Hill Auditorium.

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And it's a program for
Women's History Month.

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Professor Valerie Hartouni of
the University of California,

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San Diego, will speak on
Reproductive Technologies

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and the Post Human
Future, are we there yet.

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So now please help me to
welcome, Dr. Humphreys.

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[Applause]

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[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Thank you.

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Thank you, Liz.

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And to Steven Greenberg who
helped organize my visit

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and to whoever else may have
been involved in planning it.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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I particularly am
pleased to be here

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because the National
Library of Medicine

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has supported my research,
both with grants as well

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as their wonderful
collections on the historical,

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the historical collections here.

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And so it's nice
to give back some.

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And it's also very nice to be
talking during Black History

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Month and talking in
conjunction with the exhibit--

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I've got my mic, I hope it's on.

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The exhibit which you see
a brief version of out

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in the lobby here and
there's a Fuller version

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over in the
historical collection.

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So I urge you to visit that.

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That exhibition is about Black
health workers in the Civil

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War, my talk is about the Health
of Black soldiers in the Civil

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War and they cross.

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But they're obviously coming
at it in different ways,

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whether blacks who worked
as healers versus blacks

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who were actually soldiers.

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So, I'm talking today from
the book as Liz mentioned.

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And some people will ask
me where it's available.

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I'm sure Amazon has it and also
Johns Hopkins University Press

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will be glad to sell you a copy.

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I'm almost certain it's
still in print with them.

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And if it's not, tell them
to put it out in paperback.

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Anyway, so let's see now.

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You got all this
technology here.

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Now I imagine that most of
you, if you know anything

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about the Black soldiers
in the Civil War,

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if you haven't made a
special study of it.

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Know this movie, which of
course, starring Matthew

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Broderick, Denzel Washington,
and Morgan Freeman.

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called Glory, which was
about the 54th Massachusetts

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regiment and its experiences
during the Civil War.

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This movie brought the
story of the Black soldiers

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to people who had
never known there were

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black troops in the Civil War.

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In fact, 1/10 of union
troops were African-American

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and they were key in helping
the union win the war.

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[Movie poster]

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So it's good the movie
exists but it also

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gives a very different image
of the kind of experiences

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black troops had on average.

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And I'm going to talk
some about how I see that.

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[Narratives about Black Soldiers slide]

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To understand the
kinds of things

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I'm going to talk about today.

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One is to point out that the
historians of the Civil War

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tend to start in 1861 go
to 1865, and ignore

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the rest of the 19th century.

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But you can't really
rewrite history that way.

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And one of the things that
happens with the Civil War is

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all sorts of discussions from
before the war-- continue to get

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transformed, get changed
by the events of the war.

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And so you can
trace at least three

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or four narratives
about African-Americans

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through the war experience and
the black soldier experience

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and some of those narratives
have to do with health issues.

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Now, the Glory narrative, if
you will is a heroic narrative.

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It's about black men fighting
for their own freedom,

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it's about black
men gaining respect

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from their fellow white troops,
who first denigrate them.

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It's about self
liberation and black men

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liberating black
slaves in the South.

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And that focus on the Civil War.

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You could mix in the
Emancipation Proclamation,

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the great steps
forward the war brings.

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And that's one line which
is a very glorious line.

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There's a second
narrative though about

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medical differences,
Africans versus whites

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that begins before the war
and discussions of how slaves

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or black bodies are
different, carries

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through the war with
analysis of what

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happens to the black
troops as they come

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under the view of the
white doctors in the North

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and how that war
turns out for them

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in terms of health and disease.

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And then finally,
there's something

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that I label the
Anxiety narrative.

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It's hard to put a label on it.

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[...]

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One needs to be careful to see--

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to think that all the people
in the union were very pro

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slaves and abolitionists,
which is not true.

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They were often just as racist
as their Southern fellow

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Americans.

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And they were also quite
worried that all those slaves

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were, if we liberate the
slaves what's going to happen.

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Are they going to move North are
they going to become citizens,

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are they going to overrun
us, can they really

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take care of themselves.

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The Southerners were saying
you can't make citizens out

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of these four
million black slaves

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because they can't
feed themselves.

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They don't know how to
take care of themselves

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when they're sick et
cetera, et cetera.

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So there's an Anxiety narrative

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about if we do this
big change, what's

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going to happen next.

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All these narratives
get interwoven

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during the war in talking
about the black soldiers.

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Now some of the
questions about how

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blacks were
different than whites

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that Northern elites, the kinda
people who write things down

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had include, as I
said, can he become

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an independent citizen
who supports himself

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and his family.

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Since most slaves of
course didn't do this

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because they weren't
allowed to do it.

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Will he maintain his health,
will he behave lawfully,

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and vote responsibly?

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Is he physically different
than the white man,

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in biologically important ways?

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More prone to diseases,
more or less intelligent?

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Well, they knew that, they
were sure they knew that.

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More able to work in
certain environments?

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If you make him a soldier, will
he fight or will he run away?

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Some people even ask
are black men human

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or are they a different
species somehow,

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halfway between animal
and real humans of course,

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defined as white people.

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What about mulattoes
are they even fertile?

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And this question was
sincerely ask in the 1850s.

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Should blacks be thought
of as property like cows

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or as people?

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[Abraham Lincoln photograph]

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Now just to make it
clear that it wasn't only

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horribly rabid racist
to ask these questions,

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Lincoln said in his
Lincoln Douglas debates.

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There is a physical difference
between the white and black

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races, which I believe
will forever forbid the two

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races living together on
terms of social and political

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equality.

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So these questions, these
assumptions are pervasive even

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among those you might think
of is the most well-meaning

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in Northern society.

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So the American Civil War
brings new answers and new data

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to all of these questions.

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OK.

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Now a very brief calendar of
events in 1862 and 1863 as it

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relates to my topic.

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Ignoring small other
events like say the Battle

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of Shiloh and so forth.

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So in 1862, refugee slaves
forced the first discussion

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of Emancipation as union
troops increasingly

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invade pockets of
the South and slaves

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rushed to the union camps.

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Union soldiers and
union leaders have

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to do something about them.

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Had to decide what their
policy is going to be.

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And this makes it
clear that if the union

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does win, what are they going
to do with all these slaves,

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or brings that question up.

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You see the evolution of
contraband policy, which

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I'll talk about in a second.

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And even a congressional
committee or commission

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that looked at the
whole question of how

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the freedmen, the beginning of
the discussion of how freedmen

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if they are brought
into being liberated

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slaves, how they
are to transform

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into American citizens.

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That explore questions like,
do black people get married?

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They just didn't know.

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So what's a contraband.

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In 1862, General Benjamin Butler
was at Fort Monroe in Virginia

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and they were starting
to deal with slaves

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who had come into the Union
camps or into the Union sphere,

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and he was asked, what
do we do with them?

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And Butler was
from Massachusetts,

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he wasn't a full
fledged abolitionist,

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but he was at least sympathetic
to the cause and he said,

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these men are contraband of war.

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Meaning and it's not
particularly complimentary

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thing to say, black men
that come into our camps

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are just like if we captured
their mules or their horses

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or their wagons or their
corn, it's contraband of war

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and they're ours now.

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Now realize the Fugitive Slave
law was still on the books.

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And you're supposed to
send captured slaves back,

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but Butler says, no the slaves
are important to the war effort

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just like horses, mules,
they're contraband,

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and not going to be sent back.

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This had a lot of resonance
among Northern abolitionists

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and anti-slavery folks.

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One of the things I
did in the Civil War

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is make envelopes
with old cartoons

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in the corner and
stationery and so forth

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and so you see this cartoon.

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"Come back here you
black rascal."

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"Can't come back nohow massa
this child's contraband."

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So you see him go and
nenna and inana over here

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at Fortress Monroe.

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Now that's 1862 as I said,
this is from a very limited

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perspective.

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On the 1st of
January 1863, Lincoln

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issued his Emancipation
Proclamation,

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freeing all the states.

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To bring all the slaves
in the states that

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are under rebellion,
namely the states

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he doesn't have
any control over.

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But never mind, it's at
least a major statement

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that those slaves are free.

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That left by the way.

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Union states with slaves
and slavery intact.

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So there's still slavery
in Kentucky, in Maryland,

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in Missouri, and Arkansas.

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So he only freed them
in states in rebellion.

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That spring is when
there for example,

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draft riots in New York City.

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The Irish are rebelling.

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The poor are tired
of being called upon

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to die when so many
have already died.

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And the union is starting to
feel the pressure of where

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are we going to get
enough troops to continue

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this war, which was becoming
increasingly unpopular.

12:33.500 --> 12:36.733
And Lincoln finally agreed
to start drafting, not

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drafting but enlisting
black men in large numbers.

12:41.700 --> 12:44.000
A lot of people were doubtful,
this was a good idea,

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but that summer.

12:44.966 --> 12:47.432
You see the battles
of Battery Wagner,

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where the "Glory" guys die.

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Milliken's Bend in Port Hudson
on the lower Mississippi-- people

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start to say, yeah,
they can't fight.

12:56.266 --> 13:00.499
Yes, this is a reasonable plan.

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So by the end of
1863, more and more

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Northerners would come to agree
that the black man properly

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led, made a good soldier.

13:07.733 --> 13:10.199
This had been in question
now, it had been shown.

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And many accepted
the transition mantra

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that you see over
and over again.

13:15.000 --> 13:17.766
We'll take slaves, will
turn them into soldiers,

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and they'll come out
ready to be citizens.

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So slave to soldier to citizen.

13:24.533 --> 13:28.733
And this comes in an era when
people are still talking about

13:28.733 --> 13:31.399
whether black men
are animals or not.

13:31.400 --> 13:34.433
So this rather rude
cartoon from Harper's

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Weekly in January 1863.

13:36.933 --> 13:39.066
So you have the black
gentleman there on the left.

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“Ugh! Get out. I ain’t one ob you no more. I’se a Man, I is!“

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There's a lot of
talk about what's

13:44.466 --> 13:47.699
it going to take to make
African-American males into men

13:47.700 --> 13:49.100
into citizens.

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[...]

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So, Frederick Douglass of course,
one of the great abolitionist

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thinkers and writers, put
some of this into words

13:59.466 --> 14:03.332
and then Ken Burns had
Morgan Freeman say it:

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“Once let the black man get upon his person the brass letters, U.S.--

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[Music, The Battle Hymn of the Republic]

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Let him get an
eagle on his buttons

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and a musket on his shoulder,
bullets in his pockets.

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There's no power
on Earth which can deny

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that he has earned
the right to citizenship

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in the United States."

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[Music ends]

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I played this clip in Charleston
and before I started I said

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is it legal to play
the Battle Hymn

14:34.266 --> 14:36.132
of the republic in Charleston.

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It got a laugh there too.

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OK.

14:39.800 --> 14:43.866
So this is the 24th regiment
US Colored Troops flag

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and it says, you see
this the sentiment.

14:47.033 --> 14:48.833
I don't know if you
can see it the way this

14:48.833 --> 14:52.299
is projected, but says up
there let soldiers in war

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be citizens in peace.

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So some officers
anyway took this

14:57.500 --> 15:00.200
on as an important function
of their leadership

15:00.200 --> 15:02.300
that they not only trained
them to be soldiers

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but they brought in
teachers to teach them

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to read in this sort of thing.

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But other people
said, they're really

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good at being trained to
be soldiers because they're

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like children, they like to
match, and they like music,

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and they've got rhythm,
and all this sort of stuff,

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and they're accustomed
to obedience.

15:24.300 --> 15:25.733
I just wanted to
throw this and not

15:25.733 --> 15:30.899
everybody saw this glorious
path to citizenship.

15:30.900 --> 15:33.000
So now this is supposed
to be about the health

15:33.000 --> 15:36.066
of the Black soldier and
we're finally getting there.

15:36.066 --> 15:43.232
The question that comes up
is having already decided

15:43.233 --> 15:45.599
whether the black
man has the willpower

15:45.600 --> 15:47.600
and the mental ability
to be a good soldier,

15:47.600 --> 15:50.466
is he physically strong enough.

15:50.466 --> 15:53.899
Now you might think that
if you were comparing

15:53.900 --> 15:57.333
men who could work 10 hours
in the sun of Mississippi

15:57.333 --> 16:00.833
picking cotton to some white
guy sitting on the veranda,

16:00.833 --> 16:02.599
that there'd be no
question about who's

16:02.600 --> 16:03.600
physically stronger.

16:03.600 --> 16:06.066
But of course, any sort
of narrative that ranks

16:06.066 --> 16:07.699
the races in the
mid 19th century

16:07.700 --> 16:09.800
has to make white
people the strongest

16:09.800 --> 16:12.433
and to talk about
inherent weakness

16:12.433 --> 16:13.999
of the African-Americans.

16:14.000 --> 16:16.366
So they're down the list.

16:16.366 --> 16:19.466
So there's these broad questions
about biological differences.

16:19.466 --> 16:26.199
And one of the ways the
debate changes during the war

16:26.200 --> 16:30.333
is that black men die in very
large numbers from disease.

16:30.333 --> 16:32.966
In the contraband camps,
these camps that form up

16:32.966 --> 16:35.666
around the Union troops,
they're refugee camps,

16:35.666 --> 16:37.432
they're not run
by the Union Army,

16:37.433 --> 16:39.833
they're tolerated
by the Union Army.

16:39.833 --> 16:42.099
The mortality rate
in the year tended

16:42.100 --> 16:45.566
to be as high as 25%,
men and women.

16:45.566 --> 16:48.199
These black soldiers
died at higher rates

16:48.200 --> 16:50.833
than white soldiers of disease.

16:50.833 --> 16:57.533
So some notice was
taken and these results

16:57.533 --> 16:59.933
had to be interpreted.

16:59.933 --> 17:03.433
The probably worst
regiment that we

17:03.433 --> 17:05.933
have data for and one
historian has very carefully

17:05.933 --> 17:09.366
gone through every person who
is enrolled in that regiment,

17:09.366 --> 17:12.499
not me did this.

17:12.500 --> 17:16.900
Found that the regiment
enrolled just over 1,700 men

17:16.900 --> 17:20.466
and 772 of them died of disease.

17:20.466 --> 17:21.399
Horrific.

17:21.400 --> 17:24.100
In this regiment saw no
battle, so you can't blame it

17:24.100 --> 17:26.666
on battle or battle conditions.

17:26.666 --> 17:28.332
So they didn't know
what this meant.

17:28.333 --> 17:31.099
Did it mean that black
men were physically weaker

17:31.100 --> 17:31.900
than white men?

17:31.900 --> 17:34.500
Were slavery's defenders
right and the black man

17:34.500 --> 17:38.233
would not thrive in freedom.

17:38.233 --> 17:42.633
So some data, which
is lousy data.

17:42.633 --> 17:44.499
Just to say that straight out.

17:44.500 --> 17:47.933
And I could do a whole talk on
why the data for Black Civil

17:47.933 --> 17:51.299
War soldiers is so terrible,
partly because they didn't care

17:51.300 --> 17:53.866
as much about writing it down.

17:53.866 --> 17:55.366
And we could go on and on.

17:55.366 --> 18:01.166
But still it gives
you a ballpark figure

18:01.166 --> 18:03.999
of what the differences
were and people,

18:04.000 --> 18:06.533
even if they disagreed about
the actual numbers talk

18:06.533 --> 18:07.733
about the distinctions.

18:07.733 --> 18:13.733
So about the deaths from
disease per 1,000 men about one

18:13.733 --> 18:16.133
in seven of their
official category

18:16.133 --> 18:19.166
was US Colored Troops,
USCT, about one

18:19.166 --> 18:22.432
in seven died of disease
during the war and about 1

18:22.433 --> 18:24.833
in 62 died in battle.

18:24.833 --> 18:27.399
That's because they didn't put
the black men in battle as much

18:27.400 --> 18:29.233
and that's a separate issue.

18:29.233 --> 18:34.799
White volunteers 1 in 17
died of disease and 1 in 29

18:34.800 --> 18:37.666
died in battle.

18:37.666 --> 18:40.499
So for some reason,
the difference

18:40.500 --> 18:44.800
in mortality from disease
was markedly higher

18:44.800 --> 18:46.500
in the Black troops.

18:46.500 --> 18:49.400
Another way to look at it is
to compare disease mortality

18:49.400 --> 18:53.100
to battle mortality it was 8 to
1 for Black troops and 2 to 1

18:53.100 --> 18:54.600
for white troops.

18:54.600 --> 18:57.600
So-- why?

18:57.600 --> 19:00.433
Now you can ask why in terms
of a modern perspective

19:00.433 --> 19:02.099
or asked why in terms
of what they said.

19:02.100 --> 19:06.100
So let's start with
a modern perspective.

19:06.100 --> 19:08.600
The first thing to say
is the Massachusetts 54th

19:08.600 --> 19:11.033
was not typical of US
Colored Troops that's

19:11.033 --> 19:12.599
the Glory regiment.

19:12.600 --> 19:15.266
Matthew Broderick,
was a really nice guy

19:15.266 --> 19:17.166
and most of the leaders
of the black troops

19:17.166 --> 19:18.732
were not really nice guys.

19:18.733 --> 19:21.799
They were not driven by
abolitionist tendencies,

19:21.800 --> 19:25.100
they were not driven by a
desire to elevate and reform

19:25.100 --> 19:27.800
their troops, they were
driven by the desire

19:27.800 --> 19:30.666
to get an officer's
pay and they were

19:30.666 --> 19:32.599
willing to put up with
the fact that they were

19:32.600 --> 19:35.266
leading Black troops to get it.

19:35.266 --> 19:39.566
We know this from a lot of
letters home and whatnot.

19:39.566 --> 19:45.732
In general were
not led by officers

19:45.733 --> 19:50.066
that would have been
officers of white troops.

19:50.066 --> 19:51.499
They were good
enough black troops,

19:51.500 --> 19:53.766
but they weren't good
enough for white troops.

19:53.766 --> 19:56.299
The Mass-54th was tied
to a particular state.

19:56.300 --> 19:58.100
The governor was
involved, the governor

19:58.100 --> 20:00.333
was interested in their outcome.

20:00.333 --> 20:02.699
Most of US Colored Troops
were just federal troops.

20:02.700 --> 20:06.566
They didn't have a state to
be tied to and with any kind

20:06.566 --> 20:07.999
of local support.

20:08.000 --> 20:10.733
And the Mass-54th had people
who could read and write.

20:10.733 --> 20:12.899
That little guy in the movie
with the little glasses

20:12.900 --> 20:15.966
and whatnot, he could write.

20:15.966 --> 20:19.232
Most troops would have been
illiterate and unable to speak

20:19.233 --> 20:22.233
for themselves and
advocate for themselves.

20:22.233 --> 20:26.966
The 140,000 more or less
of the black troops,

20:26.966 --> 20:32.299
they were maybe 186,000
in all-- were ex slaves.

20:32.300 --> 20:34.200
And some of them were
actually bought off

20:34.200 --> 20:40.300
the plantations of Kentucky,
in Maryland, in Missouri,

20:40.300 --> 20:41.933
and Arkansas.

20:41.933 --> 20:46.299
Now of course this is the
slave belt, the black belt.

20:46.300 --> 20:48.100
And you can imagine
that or you probably

20:48.100 --> 20:51.000
know that most of the
Civil War, Mississippi,

20:51.000 --> 20:53.066
except for the
coastal on the river

20:53.066 --> 20:56.999
Alabama, Georgia, until
Sherman's March, and much

20:57.000 --> 20:59.800
of South Carolina were
out of union hands.

20:59.800 --> 21:02.966
But the union has a lot
of contact on the coast

21:02.966 --> 21:06.766
here, Northern Virginia,
they control Kentucky,

21:06.766 --> 21:09.232
they get West Tennessee, and
Middle Tennessee fairly early,

21:09.233 --> 21:11.166
they control Missouri
and Arkansas,

21:11.166 --> 21:12.299
and parts of West Texas.

21:12.300 --> 21:17.500
So they are enrolling ex
slaves who belong to rebels,

21:17.500 --> 21:19.200
so therefore they're
officially free

21:19.200 --> 21:25.400
or they buy slaves from
loyal Kentucky slave owners.

21:25.400 --> 21:27.500
Some of them resisted.

21:27.500 --> 21:30.200
It's hard for me to get in the
mind of a Kentucky slave owner

21:30.200 --> 21:34.900
in 1864, who's fighting selling
his slave to the Union army,

21:34.900 --> 21:37.700
like he doesn't get the
picture of where this is going.

21:37.700 --> 21:43.100
But still it's not our image of
glory of a recruiting officer,

21:43.100 --> 21:44.833
actually buying
male slaves, which

21:44.833 --> 21:47.699
is what he did for the army.

21:47.700 --> 21:48.933
So why does this matter?

21:48.933 --> 21:53.266
Well, this is just some
pictures of who these guys were.

21:53.266 --> 21:56.532
I think also the kind
of lost and scared look

21:56.533 --> 21:57.733
of some of them.

21:57.733 --> 21:59.566
This picture and the
next one was commonly

21:59.566 --> 22:05.599
shown to go from slave to
free man or slave to citizen.

22:05.600 --> 22:09.366
They put to these
pictures side by side,

22:09.366 --> 22:11.766
but it gives you some
concept of from where

22:11.766 --> 22:14.299
they came to where they went.

22:14.300 --> 22:16.366
Most of these ex-slaves
were illiterate.

22:16.366 --> 22:18.866
It was illegal to
teach slaves to read.

22:18.866 --> 22:20.466
In most Southern
states they couldn't

22:20.466 --> 22:22.799
advocate for themselves, they
couldn't write to somebody

22:22.800 --> 22:24.166
and complain.

22:24.166 --> 22:26.199
They arrived in
camp malnourished,

22:26.200 --> 22:29.033
diseased, poorly clothed.

22:29.033 --> 22:31.699
They should have been exempted,
but recruiting officers

22:31.700 --> 22:33.700
didn't care that
they had aspects

22:33.700 --> 22:37.600
that would have kept them out
if they'd been white troops

22:37.600 --> 22:41.500
and they had no advocacy group.

22:41.500 --> 22:44.566
They were treated as
second class soldiers.

22:44.566 --> 22:47.266
We think of the Civil War
soldiers as glorious person

22:47.266 --> 22:50.899
that everybody rah-rah along,
but by the middle of the war

22:50.900 --> 22:54.200
they needed cannon fodder
and these guys were it in it.

22:54.200 --> 23:00.000
They were semi slaves
in the Union Army.

23:00.000 --> 23:02.133
They received much lower pay.

23:02.133 --> 23:03.499
They couldn't
because of that pay

23:03.500 --> 23:07.466
buy extra food to supplement
the rations the army gave them.

23:07.466 --> 23:11.199
They receive poor quality
rations, poor quality tents,

23:11.200 --> 23:14.433
shabby clothing, poor quality
firearms that didn't work,

23:14.433 --> 23:18.533
and their officers didn't
do much to defend them.

23:18.533 --> 23:21.166
Now I've heard people say,
but yes the Union troops--

23:21.166 --> 23:24.199
the regular troops also had
poor tents and blah blah.

23:24.200 --> 23:27.000
But we know that because
they wrote letters home

23:27.000 --> 23:28.900
and they complained and
the governor got mad

23:28.900 --> 23:32.233
and he called the general
and something happened.

23:32.233 --> 23:39.999
Black troops couldn't pull
that kind of influence.

23:40.000 --> 23:44.400
So, this was also manifested
in the medical care

23:44.400 --> 23:45.333
of the black soldiers.

23:45.333 --> 23:48.166
There weren't enough doctors,
there wasn't enough medicine,

23:48.166 --> 23:50.499
their hospitals were
terrible, and they didn't

23:50.500 --> 23:53.400
get the rest they needed.

23:53.400 --> 23:54.800
OK.

23:54.800 --> 23:58.900
So one of the problems was
just finding enough doctors.

23:58.900 --> 24:00.200
It's 1863.

24:00.200 --> 24:02.200
All the doctors who want
to be in the Union Army

24:02.200 --> 24:04.400
are already in it.

24:04.400 --> 24:05.966
Maybe there's a
few new ones who've

24:05.966 --> 24:08.699
come through medical
school, but most

24:08.700 --> 24:10.733
of the guys who would have
been in medical school

24:10.733 --> 24:11.733
are in the army.

24:11.733 --> 24:13.299
They've dropped out
of medical school.

24:13.300 --> 24:15.300
They're doing something else.

24:15.300 --> 24:19.100
The doctors supply
is very scarce.

24:19.100 --> 24:24.800
So one general who was involved
in recruiting black troops

24:24.800 --> 24:27.166
said maybe we could
turn hospital stewards

24:27.166 --> 24:29.499
into surgeons, because after
all these are black troops,

24:29.500 --> 24:31.400
they don't have to be--

24:31.400 --> 24:34.366
they don't have to have the
first class M.D. quality

24:34.366 --> 24:35.766
medical care.

24:35.766 --> 24:39.766
Hospital stewards were to
some extent pharmacists, often

24:39.766 --> 24:43.066
they were trained on
the spot by doctors.

24:43.066 --> 24:46.899
They had some medical
knowledge, but not often they

24:46.900 --> 24:49.500
had more than the
medicine knowledge but not

24:49.500 --> 24:52.733
the surgical knowledge.

24:52.733 --> 24:55.766
And Lorenzo Thomas
countered this idea.

24:55.766 --> 24:57.599
He said, we shouldn't do this.

24:57.600 --> 25:00.066
But we know from the
fact that he fought it

25:00.066 --> 25:03.466
that other commanders
allowed hospital stewards

25:03.466 --> 25:07.999
to become the medical
officers for black regiments.

25:08.000 --> 25:10.033
And we have another letter
from Nathaniel Banks

25:10.033 --> 25:13.599
who was involved
in the supervision

25:13.600 --> 25:17.100
of the department that includes
Louisiana, Southern Missouri.

25:17.100 --> 25:19.300
Who pointed out
that, well, maybe you

25:19.300 --> 25:20.900
might think that
hospital stewards are

25:20.900 --> 25:23.933
fine for black troops, but black
troops it's not like they're

25:23.933 --> 25:25.833
just all isolated and
not near white troops.

25:25.833 --> 25:28.299
So what do you do if you have
Black troops and white troops

25:28.300 --> 25:30.666
in battle and here's a
white guy who's injured

25:30.666 --> 25:33.532
and the only doctor available
is this poorly trained steward,

25:33.533 --> 25:35.333
this isn't going to work.

25:35.333 --> 25:40.933
So the officers
remember, they have

25:40.933 --> 25:43.599
white officers, said
we need real doctors,

25:43.600 --> 25:46.566
because we're like valuable
people we're white men.

25:46.566 --> 25:50.766
And so, again they
had this debate.

25:50.766 --> 25:53.799
Banks actually tried to
get new medical graduates.

25:53.800 --> 25:55.966
And he hired some
guys who were students

25:55.966 --> 25:59.732
and we know that one black
soldier at least in Texas

25:59.733 --> 26:01.299
didn't think much
of these students.

26:01.300 --> 26:03.766
The doctors visits them
about three times a week

26:03.766 --> 26:05.932
and they do more harm than good.

26:05.933 --> 26:07.033
They poison the soldiers.

26:07.033 --> 26:09.099
They are called doctors
but they are not.

26:09.100 --> 26:10.766
They're only students
who knows nothing

26:10.766 --> 26:14.466
about issuing medicines.

26:14.466 --> 26:16.066
I think patients are
still complaining

26:16.066 --> 26:19.432
about medical students,
but these particularly

26:19.433 --> 26:21.999
seem to have even a
black soldier could

26:22.000 --> 26:24.366
tell they didn't know anything.

26:24.366 --> 26:26.732
So one solution to this
problem is why don't we

26:26.733 --> 26:28.966
get black doctors for
black patients they'll take

26:28.966 --> 26:30.266
good care of them and so forth.

26:30.266 --> 26:32.599
Well, first of all, there
weren't very many of them.

26:32.600 --> 26:36.766
But we know that
a few guys tried

26:36.766 --> 26:40.699
to get commissions in the
Union Army as black men

26:40.700 --> 26:42.733
to get commissions
as black doctors.

26:42.733 --> 26:46.299
The most famous of them
is Alexander Augusta,

26:46.300 --> 26:50.200
who surfaces during
the Civil War,

26:50.200 --> 26:54.333
trying to do this becomes
after the war an advocate.

26:54.333 --> 26:57.966
One of the people who helps
start Howard medical school

26:57.966 --> 27:01.132
and the National
Medical Association.

27:01.133 --> 27:03.199
Throughout his career
he is an advocate

27:03.200 --> 27:06.766
for civil rights for blacks in
general and for black doctors.

27:06.766 --> 27:12.232
So in January 1863, in lieu of
the Emancipation Proclamation

27:12.233 --> 27:13.999
has just come out
he writes Lincoln,

27:14.000 --> 27:16.166
"I beg leave to apply to
you for an Appointment

27:16.166 --> 27:18.032
as surgeon to some of
the coloured regiments...

27:18.033 --> 27:21.999
where I can be of
use to my race."

27:22.000 --> 27:24.266
So Lincoln gets the right
people to examine him,

27:24.266 --> 27:27.966
he gets appointed as a major and
surgeon of the 7th US Colored

27:27.966 --> 27:30.899
Infantry in April 1863.

27:30.900 --> 27:32.700
Major is a full
fledged surgeon, he's

27:32.700 --> 27:34.733
also a commissioned officer.

27:34.733 --> 27:38.299
The assistant
surgeons were white.

27:38.300 --> 27:41.466
"This is wrong, it's grave,
it's unjust and humiliating."

27:41.466 --> 27:43.332
said the white surgeons,
because suddenly you

27:43.333 --> 27:46.499
have white men being
commanded by a black man.

27:46.500 --> 27:48.933
This cannot stand.

27:48.933 --> 27:51.299
"This thing of amalgamation
or miscegenation in the

27:51.300 --> 27:53.900
appointment of officers
I do not believe in."

27:53.900 --> 27:59.233
Wrote this surgeon who would
have been under Augusta writing

27:59.233 --> 28:03.299
to John Sherman of Ohio,
William Tecumseh's brother.

28:03.300 --> 28:07.366
Sherman was a Senator from Ohio.
Big uproar and hoop-dee-doo

28:07.366 --> 28:10.399
and white doctors saying
we cannot serve under black

28:10.400 --> 28:12.333
doctors.

28:12.333 --> 28:16.933
So the surgeon general
sends Augusta to Baltimore

28:16.933 --> 28:20.266
to serve as a recruiting
doctor to examine recruits

28:20.266 --> 28:22.732
so he doesn't have
anybody underneath him,

28:22.733 --> 28:26.366
but he does leave the war with
a brevet rank of Lieutenant

28:26.366 --> 28:29.066
Colonel which makes him the
highest ranking black officer

28:29.066 --> 28:33.032
in the American Civil War and he
goes on to these other events.

28:33.033 --> 28:35.666
So if you go to
the exhibit, you'll

28:35.666 --> 28:38.399
see this picture of John
Van Surly DeGrasse, which

28:38.400 --> 28:39.766
I stole from their website.

28:39.766 --> 28:41.499
He's the only other
commissioned surgeon.

28:41.500 --> 28:46.800
After all this whoopty do they
stopped commissioning surgeons.

28:46.800 --> 28:50.933
I must say DeGrasse
looks very light to me.

28:50.933 --> 28:53.666
If you looked at this picture
you wouldn't necessarily

28:53.666 --> 28:55.566
say he's an African-American.

28:55.566 --> 28:57.132
And this highlights
the fact that many

28:57.133 --> 28:59.966
of the African-American doctors
we know about from the war

28:59.966 --> 29:02.166
would not have been seen
as black in their time,

29:02.166 --> 29:04.632
but would have been
called mulatto.

29:04.633 --> 29:07.599
And perhaps got their
education and so forth

29:07.600 --> 29:10.966
because their white
father was able to fund

29:10.966 --> 29:16.032
some of their education,
but that's just supposition.

29:16.033 --> 29:20.699
At least eight men were
hired as contract surgeons

29:20.700 --> 29:24.633
meaning you avoid the
commissions during the war.

29:24.633 --> 29:27.299
And one of the
confusions is that you

29:27.300 --> 29:29.300
have contraband
hospitals such as one

29:29.300 --> 29:32.900
here in DC, which took
care of the black freedmen

29:32.900 --> 29:34.700
as well as the black
soldiers so you

29:34.700 --> 29:40.566
get this mix of essentially
a quasi VA with a Freedmen's

29:40.566 --> 29:42.299
Bureau Hospital.

29:42.300 --> 29:46.700
And they're the black doctors
were seen as more acceptable.

29:46.700 --> 29:50.100
There were never enough doctors
for the Black regiments.

29:50.100 --> 29:54.600
And that US Colored Infantry
that lost 700 and 1,700,

29:54.600 --> 29:56.400
it'll give you an
idea of why when you

29:56.400 --> 29:59.966
look at their doctor career.

29:59.966 --> 30:02.832
The regiment was gathered in
St. Louis in the winter of 1863,

30:02.833 --> 30:04.599
'64.

30:04.600 --> 30:06.033
Now a regiment is
supposed to have

30:06.033 --> 30:08.066
one surgeon, four
fledged surgeon, and two

30:08.066 --> 30:09.866
assistant surgeons.

30:09.866 --> 30:13.466
So surgeon 1, one year
out of medical school

30:13.466 --> 30:16.732
appointed for surgeon January
1864, developed a hernia,

30:16.733 --> 30:18.433
he was gone by the summer.

30:18.433 --> 30:22.033
Surgeon 2, joined
in April 1864, he

30:22.033 --> 30:24.199
was dead one month
later of diarrhea.

30:24.200 --> 30:28.100
Surgeon 3 joined in August 1864,
to which point you might say,

30:28.100 --> 30:30.733
but wait a minute, they don't
have a doctor at all in July,

30:30.733 --> 30:32.233
Yeah, well that's true.

30:32.233 --> 30:34.499
Joined in August
1864, he got sick

30:34.500 --> 30:36.800
and he left in
November on disability.

30:36.800 --> 30:39.733
And then there's a guy
who joins in August 1864

30:39.733 --> 30:40.833
and lasted for a year.

30:40.833 --> 30:43.299
So while this regiment is
dying in such large numbers

30:43.300 --> 30:47.533
of disease, they
don't have doctors.

30:47.533 --> 30:49.399
So what?

30:49.400 --> 30:52.500
Given mid 19th century medical
care weren't they better off

30:52.500 --> 30:54.766
without doctors.

30:54.766 --> 30:57.132
And I beg to differ.

30:57.133 --> 30:57.633
All right.

30:57.633 --> 31:01.033
So this is the time of
so-called heroic medicine.

31:01.033 --> 31:04.166
When doctors treated
fevers with bloodletting,

31:04.166 --> 31:06.766
they used a lot of
medicines we now know

31:06.766 --> 31:09.866
as toxic such as Calomel,
it's a mercury compound.

31:09.866 --> 31:11.599
And so you might argue
you'd be better off

31:11.600 --> 31:16.533
without a doctor giving you
these things than with one.

31:16.533 --> 31:18.299
But there were certain
things that doctors

31:18.300 --> 31:20.333
did in the Civil War that
did make a difference

31:20.333 --> 31:22.233
and made a positive difference.

31:22.233 --> 31:24.466
They organized a
field evacuation

31:24.466 --> 31:26.566
and getting the sick
off the battlefield

31:26.566 --> 31:29.932
so you don't die of dehydration,
two days after the battle

31:29.933 --> 31:32.599
because you can't
walk and nobody

31:32.600 --> 31:36.533
is getting you any water, or
getting you out of there.

31:36.533 --> 31:40.099
There were effective medical
interventions, quarantine

31:40.100 --> 31:42.266
being one of the major ones.

31:42.266 --> 31:45.299
Chloroform was very helpful if
you happen to be having surgery

31:45.300 --> 31:47.400
and they did have
chloroform and ether,

31:47.400 --> 31:51.233
and opium which could help you
with diarrhea and with pain

31:51.233 --> 31:54.999
or other opium compounds.

31:55.000 --> 31:57.466
The most important
effective interventions

31:57.466 --> 31:59.499
was available in the hospital.

31:59.500 --> 32:03.700
Food, warmth, hydration, rest.

32:03.700 --> 32:05.966
And somebody to
say that man needs

32:05.966 --> 32:08.699
food, warmth, hydration, rest.

32:08.700 --> 32:11.900
He should not be living in that
tent lying on a wet blanket,

32:11.900 --> 32:13.500
we should get him
in the hospital.

32:13.500 --> 32:18.066
These may seem
obvious, but it wasn't

32:18.066 --> 32:20.032
until somebody
organized, he created,

32:20.033 --> 32:24.099
it created a clean hospital,
and took care of guys.

32:24.100 --> 32:28.466
Surgery this is a grim
19th century surgery kits.

32:28.466 --> 32:31.199
Save lives when a leg had
been shattered or whatnot.

32:31.200 --> 32:33.000
And the wound of
course it took some too

32:33.000 --> 32:35.200
because there was no
antisepsis, but many,

32:35.200 --> 32:38.166
many men survived the
amputations in the war

32:38.166 --> 32:40.599
and it saved their lives.

32:40.600 --> 32:45.766
Further medical officers or who
controlled furloughs and rest.

32:45.766 --> 32:50.232
And a Furlough was being
allowed to go home for 30 days

32:50.233 --> 32:53.766
or 90 days or whatnot and get
over whatever is wrong with you

32:53.766 --> 32:57.766
or just to say of
like modern day you

32:57.766 --> 33:02.832
need a note from your doctor
to get off work for three days.

33:02.833 --> 33:06.033
The medical officers controlled
that to that if you're sick

33:06.033 --> 33:08.366
and not digging
ditches or whatnot

33:08.366 --> 33:12.599
you're better off than if you're
made to do that kind of work

33:12.600 --> 33:13.633
while you're ill.

33:13.633 --> 33:16.433
So the Colored Troops
in general were

33:16.433 --> 33:19.599
worked more in slave like ways.

33:19.600 --> 33:24.400
And so the doctors saying
stop that was important.

33:24.400 --> 33:27.933
The white doctors were
often insensitive and cruel

33:27.933 --> 33:28.899
to the black soldiers.

33:28.900 --> 33:32.066
We have a lot of
information about that.

33:32.066 --> 33:34.866
They shared southern
assumptions that the black man

33:34.866 --> 33:37.966
was lazy and prone
to malingering

33:37.966 --> 33:39.532
and had decreased empathy.

33:39.533 --> 33:42.833
And so they were less likely
to advocate for improvement

33:42.833 --> 33:43.399
for the guys.

33:43.400 --> 33:45.266
So what medical
officers they had

33:45.266 --> 33:46.932
weren't necessarily
good ones and they

33:46.933 --> 33:49.233
didn't serve these functions.

33:49.233 --> 33:52.766
Now finally and we could talk
a lot about this epidemiology

33:52.766 --> 33:54.532
was against them too.

33:54.533 --> 33:56.133
All those guys who
had been slaves

33:56.133 --> 33:58.633
had lived largely in
isolated rural settings,

33:58.633 --> 34:01.799
they never had the childhood
diseases measles, mumps,

34:01.800 --> 34:05.300
rubella, and in that
time period smallpox.

34:05.300 --> 34:07.300
And so when they were
gathered together,

34:07.300 --> 34:11.300
they tended to get them all,
one after the other.

34:11.300 --> 34:14.800
They also were susceptible
to things like pneumococcus

34:14.800 --> 34:17.800
from crowding in barracks
which they might not

34:17.800 --> 34:19.366
have seen at all.

34:19.366 --> 34:21.966
That exposure mattered.

34:21.966 --> 34:25.266
And the union deliberately
put the black troops in areas

34:25.266 --> 34:26.632
with malaria
because they thought

34:26.633 --> 34:28.966
they would do better there
than whites or at least

34:28.966 --> 34:32.932
were more expendable
than whites.

34:32.933 --> 34:36.866
So I want to talk about just
a few examples of places

34:36.866 --> 34:40.799
when things went really bad
or badly for black troops

34:40.800 --> 34:44.000
and that we have some
information about them.

34:44.000 --> 34:46.466
The first is Benton
barracks in St. Louis.

34:46.466 --> 34:49.699
We know about this because of
a man named Ira Russell, who

34:49.700 --> 34:52.066
wrote reports and sent them
to the United States Sanitary

34:52.066 --> 34:55.566
Commission, whose
papers have been saved.

34:55.566 --> 34:58.366
And so we know about
what he had to say.

34:58.366 --> 35:00.532
This was a gathering
point for black recruits

35:00.533 --> 35:02.866
from Missouri,
Kentucky, and Tennessee.

35:02.866 --> 35:06.166
We know their
housing was terrible.

35:06.166 --> 35:08.432
It was the middle of
winter, they were not warm,

35:08.433 --> 35:11.599
they got rained
on, and so forth.

35:11.600 --> 35:13.266
And many of these
regimens as I gathered

35:13.266 --> 35:16.299
didn't have doctors yet and
there were rampant outbreaks

35:16.300 --> 35:18.766
of meningitis,
pneumonia, smallpox,

35:18.766 --> 35:20.866
measles with very
high mortality.

35:20.866 --> 35:22.999
Amidst all these, Russell
was having trouble

35:23.000 --> 35:27.066
getting them hospital beds
because the army was sure

35:27.066 --> 35:29.166
that they had to strictly
segregate the black guys

35:29.166 --> 35:30.499
from everybody else.

35:30.500 --> 35:32.500
And so the black guys
are waiting for beds

35:32.500 --> 35:34.533
while there's lots
of white beds and he

35:34.533 --> 35:37.399
couldn't get them released.

35:37.400 --> 35:39.866
And one of the things
Russell did is do a lot of,

35:39.866 --> 35:42.566
he did a lot of autopsies
which we'll talk about a bit

35:42.566 --> 35:44.266
later, trying to
understand why they were

35:44.266 --> 35:46.732
dying in such high numbers.

35:46.733 --> 35:49.266
In Port Hudson, Louisiana
the aftermath of one

35:49.266 --> 35:51.332
of their famous
battles the troops

35:51.333 --> 35:53.099
are garrisoned
meaning they are put

35:53.100 --> 35:57.500
there to guard now the
Mississippi River in this spot.

35:57.500 --> 36:00.933
There was a highly malarious
area, the southern part

36:00.933 --> 36:02.533
of the Mississippi River.

36:02.533 --> 36:05.199
They thought the black troops
were better there, because they

36:05.200 --> 36:06.866
wouldn't get as much malaria.

36:06.866 --> 36:08.932
Some didn't even think
they needed quarantine

36:08.933 --> 36:10.366
if they got sick.

36:10.366 --> 36:14.166
They were camped in an area
with a very high water table.

36:14.166 --> 36:15.966
They actually were
camped in an area where

36:15.966 --> 36:18.266
men had been buried
from prior battles

36:18.266 --> 36:19.699
and they were
sinking their wells

36:19.700 --> 36:24.066
through these burying grounds
and dysentery was rampant.

36:24.066 --> 36:25.866
Because the high
water table meant

36:25.866 --> 36:28.899
the Privy and the water
supply are connected.

36:28.900 --> 36:30.900
And they weren't allowed
to do local foraging,

36:30.900 --> 36:34.000
the Union Army was
worried about incidents

36:34.000 --> 36:35.666
between the black
troops and the locals,

36:35.666 --> 36:38.732
so they didn't let them in
go out and find more food.

36:38.733 --> 36:43.233
They didn't have enough
food and they got scurvy.

36:43.233 --> 36:47.733
In Texas, an island
called Brazos Santiago,

36:47.733 --> 36:50.499
which is just South
of South Padre

36:50.500 --> 36:55.166
Island, which of course is a
highly valuable beachfront now.

36:55.166 --> 36:58.932
In the summer of 1865, when you
might think this was all over,

36:58.933 --> 37:02.233
there's a huge outbreak of
scurvy among black troops.

37:02.233 --> 37:03.799
Where they didn't
have enough water,

37:03.800 --> 37:06.266
their officers were
completely inept

37:06.266 --> 37:12.499
and their doctors were busy
importing things like--

37:12.500 --> 37:14.400
importing things from
Mexico and selling them

37:14.400 --> 37:17.066
to the local inhabitants
using the money they had

37:17.066 --> 37:20.666
rather than buying
things for the men.

37:20.666 --> 37:22.499
So you have men in the
hospital for scurvy

37:22.500 --> 37:27.700
who are being fed coffee and
hardtack which is crackers.

37:27.700 --> 37:29.200
And they didn't care.

37:29.200 --> 37:32.166
People some like
2/3 of the troops

37:32.166 --> 37:34.632
were sick with scurvy
and their officers

37:34.633 --> 37:36.933
knew exactly how to treat
scurvy and they weren't

37:36.933 --> 37:38.666
making any effort to do it.

37:38.666 --> 37:42.966
So you see in these cases
epidemiology, the crowding,

37:42.966 --> 37:45.632
uncaring officers.

37:45.633 --> 37:49.633
Bad assumptions about the
black troops and their health

37:49.633 --> 37:54.399
all can come together to
create high mortality.

37:54.400 --> 37:56.233
It was widely
recognized at the time

37:56.233 --> 37:59.899
that the black troops were
dying like flies, if you will.

37:59.900 --> 38:02.333
And it called for an
investigation, study,

38:02.333 --> 38:05.199
and explanations.

38:05.200 --> 38:08.533
This built on this Northern
fascination with the black body

38:08.533 --> 38:10.199
that somehow it's
going to be different.

38:10.200 --> 38:12.300
They suffer
pneumonia differently

38:12.300 --> 38:14.966
or malaria differently,
what can we find out.

38:14.966 --> 38:17.066
And one of the things
they do is autopsies

38:17.066 --> 38:20.032
were very big in
that time period.

38:20.033 --> 38:22.366
Did I see Michael [?]
Sepulchers, there is.

38:22.366 --> 38:25.032
One [?] autopsies just came.

38:25.033 --> 38:26.733
It was one of the
major forms of research

38:26.733 --> 38:28.366
in the mid 19th
century and they looked

38:28.366 --> 38:34.232
for what's the difference,
black and white in these bodies.

38:34.233 --> 38:37.566
There studying in
this in every way

38:37.566 --> 38:39.499
they can know they have
all these black bodies

38:39.500 --> 38:40.933
at their command.

38:40.933 --> 38:45.033
Now this is a page from the
Century Commission papers

38:45.033 --> 38:49.666
Ira Russell's autopsy
results from St. Louis

38:49.666 --> 38:51.532
and the Benton
Barracks and all these.

38:51.533 --> 38:53.399
Every line here
is a guy who died

38:53.400 --> 38:54.800
and I realize you
can't read that

38:54.800 --> 38:58.266
but that's a full
span of the page.

38:58.266 --> 39:01.132
And this is the sort of
information he gathered.

39:01.133 --> 39:03.966
So here's the guy's
name, his rank,

39:03.966 --> 39:07.699
and they're all private is
pretty much, he's regiment.

39:07.700 --> 39:09.266
And the company number.

39:09.266 --> 39:11.399
And this fascinates me.

39:11.400 --> 39:14.933
This is what color the guy
is and almost none of them

39:14.933 --> 39:16.733
are black.

39:16.733 --> 39:20.999
They're 1/8 white,
1/4 white, 3/16 white.

39:21.000 --> 39:24.133
I have this sense of them
with Sherwin-Williams strips,

39:24.133 --> 39:27.533
saying know what color is
the skin, how white is he,

39:27.533 --> 39:30.266
because they're fascinated
by the question of mulattoes.

39:30.266 --> 39:32.732
And many of the
slaves in the West,

39:32.733 --> 39:36.366
in this area in Missouri,
Kentucky, Northern Arkansas

39:36.366 --> 39:38.999
were mixed race blacks.

39:39.000 --> 39:41.266
The Joel Williamson
has written about this

39:41.266 --> 39:44.466
that a lot of the mixed race
slaves were sold in that area

39:44.466 --> 39:49.099
to get them away from
the wives in Virginia.

39:49.100 --> 39:52.600
Who were mad about the
existence of these people.

39:52.600 --> 39:53.433
Just an example.

39:53.433 --> 39:56.733
This is the brain is one of the
categories you see it flipped.

39:56.733 --> 39:59.733
And so you get a
effusion into the ventricle

39:59.733 --> 40:02.333
or in the arachnoid
condition wait.

40:02.333 --> 40:05.299
So they described it they way--
there wasn't a whole lot else

40:05.300 --> 40:05.900
they could do.

40:05.900 --> 40:09.500
They didn't do much
microscopic in this.

40:09.500 --> 40:13.666
And so spleen, intestines,
stomach, left lung, right lung,

40:13.666 --> 40:16.332
and heart.

40:16.333 --> 40:20.133
About the only thing
Russell was able to conclude

40:20.133 --> 40:26.166
after looking at some 500 slaves
or 500 black men who died.

40:26.166 --> 40:28.566
One thing you can see
is when tuberculosis

40:28.566 --> 40:29.932
comes into his system.

40:29.933 --> 40:32.466
He sees his first
TB case in February

40:32.466 --> 40:34.499
after documenting for
example, a whole bunch

40:34.500 --> 40:36.500
of cerebral spinal
meningitis cases

40:36.500 --> 40:38.666
and pneumonia cases in January.

40:38.666 --> 40:40.866
So you get a piece
of information

40:40.866 --> 40:44.466
that know these people
didn't have TB until they

40:44.466 --> 40:46.699
got exposed to soldiers.

40:46.700 --> 40:49.466
The second kind of research
they did to send out surveys.

40:49.466 --> 40:51.366
The US Sanitary Commission
love to send out

40:51.366 --> 40:52.432
surveys about things.

40:52.433 --> 40:53.899
And one of the
things they surveyed

40:53.900 --> 40:56.466
is what is your experience
with black guys.

40:56.466 --> 41:00.866
And so they ask doctors,
why are they weak?

41:00.866 --> 41:02.832
What diseases are
they susceptible to?

41:02.833 --> 41:05.299
What sort of therapies do they
get and are they different

41:05.300 --> 41:08.000
and how they respond
to those therapies?

41:08.000 --> 41:11.066
And do you see what
they call as mulattoes

41:11.066 --> 41:14.066
is having these things
differently than pure blacks

41:14.066 --> 41:15.732
or pure whites.

41:15.733 --> 41:17.233
So they gather all
that information,

41:17.233 --> 41:20.566
which was as you might
imagine fairly conclusive.

41:20.566 --> 41:22.499
And then finally
Benjamin Gould, who's

41:22.500 --> 41:26.600
known for doing these
measurements of white soldiers.

41:26.600 --> 41:29.733
Did measured all sorts of
things about the bodies

41:29.733 --> 41:31.499
of soldiers black
and white, how tall

41:31.500 --> 41:33.666
they are, how long
their arms were,

41:33.666 --> 41:37.099
where their fingers touched,
what their lung capacity was,

41:37.100 --> 41:40.100
how strong they were, he
tried to measure endurance

41:40.100 --> 41:42.633
and to compare black and white.

41:42.633 --> 41:46.499
About the only thing conclusive
that comes out of his study

41:46.500 --> 41:48.100
is that black lung
capacity didn't seem

41:48.100 --> 41:52.333
to be as great
as that of whites.

41:52.333 --> 41:55.199
So they did all the study, they
talked about it, they surveyed

41:55.200 --> 41:56.933
and what conclusions
did they come to.

41:56.933 --> 42:00.066
Well, this guy the
Provost Marshal General,

42:00.066 --> 42:01.532
who's one of the
leaders of the war

42:01.533 --> 42:04.066
said having looked
at the statistics.

42:04.066 --> 42:07.932
Well, "The Negro in the condition
in which the war found him"

42:07.933 --> 42:10.566
like it's not our fault, he
was a slave before the war.

42:10.566 --> 42:12.366
"Was less able than
the whites to"

42:12.366 --> 42:15.532
"endure the exposures and
annoyances of military service."

42:15.533 --> 42:18.766
I love the thought of military
service having annoyances.

42:18.766 --> 42:22.499
"It is merely suggested that it
is moral rather than physical"

42:22.500 --> 42:25.866
"that the great susceptibility
of the colored man to disease"

42:25.866 --> 42:31.066
"rose from lack of heart,
hope, and mental activity."

42:31.066 --> 42:33.032
And that a lot of
people think that.

42:33.033 --> 42:35.599
Well, actually if you
look at Fry's own data,

42:35.600 --> 42:36.833
they didn't think that at all.

42:36.833 --> 42:41.633
But Fry wants it to be
that the black men just

42:41.633 --> 42:45.999
didn't have the mental strength
and this trait of endurance,

42:46.000 --> 42:48.466
which is sort of a
mental characteristic

42:48.466 --> 42:50.832
that of course white
guys have and he doesn't

42:50.833 --> 42:53.566
see the black guys as having.

42:53.566 --> 42:56.366
Roberts Bartholow who was
a leading Midwest physician

42:56.366 --> 42:58.966
said, "The negro soldier
is unquestionably less

42:58.966 --> 43:01.199
enduring than the white
less active vigilant

43:01.200 --> 43:04.600
and enterprising, more
given to malingering."

43:04.600 --> 43:07.566
Most of these are mental traits.

43:07.566 --> 43:12.232
Enduring, active vigilant
enterprising, lying.

43:12.233 --> 43:14.299
But Ira Russell the
fellow in St. Louis who

43:14.300 --> 43:16.466
did those autopsies
and did try to advocate

43:16.466 --> 43:19.632
for the black troops said it's
because they were treated bad.

43:19.633 --> 43:22.833
"It is often said even by surgeons
in charge of colored regiments

43:22.833 --> 43:25.399
said it is of no use to
doctor a sick negro that he

43:25.400 --> 43:27.133
will die do what you may.

43:27.133 --> 43:30.299
I am satisfied that no greater
mistake can be committed.

43:30.300 --> 43:32.900
When I hear a surgeon
making such a statement,

43:32.900 --> 43:35.833
I regard it as evidence
of culpable indifference

43:35.833 --> 43:36.799
and neglect."

43:36.800 --> 43:38.500
"Among no class of
patients have I

43:38.500 --> 43:40.000
seen better results
from treatment

43:40.000 --> 43:42.633
than among colored soldiers
with proper care and study

43:42.633 --> 43:43.999
has been given to their disease."

43:44.000 --> 43:46.333
So, Russell is one
of the lone voices

43:46.333 --> 43:48.733
to say, it's because
they've been mistreated

43:48.733 --> 43:53.266
and you treat them well, they
do just as well as anybody else.

43:53.266 --> 43:55.699
Now the only use I've seen
of Russell's autopsy data

43:55.700 --> 43:59.000
published use and Russell
doesn't publish anything

43:59.000 --> 44:01.500
about this which
is disappointing.

44:01.500 --> 44:04.933
[?] data, Sanford Hunt
who publishes his paper

44:04.933 --> 44:07.099
to the anthropological
review in 1869,

44:07.100 --> 44:12.900
another union soldier says
that from Ira Russell's data

44:12.900 --> 44:17.700
that the black brain is
smaller than white by 5 ounces.

44:17.700 --> 44:23.300
And he also has blacks are
more susceptible to pneumonia,

44:23.300 --> 44:27.100
they are equally
susceptible to malaria.

44:27.100 --> 44:30.266
And overall there's not
much result from this.

44:30.266 --> 44:32.166
Old assumptions are tenacious.

44:32.166 --> 44:36.099
One is he was surprised
to not find much TB

44:36.100 --> 44:41.066
because Northern doctors who
had seen black men in the North

44:41.066 --> 44:44.132
saw a lot of TB, but when you
look at black men who have not

44:44.133 --> 44:45.699
lived in the cities
of the North there

44:45.700 --> 44:48.966
was very little tuberculosis.

44:48.966 --> 44:52.166
These all feeds into a later
19th century discussion

44:52.166 --> 44:56.099
about black mental powers being
deficient, the black brain not

44:56.100 --> 44:59.700
being as strong as whites,
that supposedly grows out

44:59.700 --> 45:01.866
of these attitudes
from the Civil War.

45:01.866 --> 45:06.632
So these are not
benign conclusions.

45:06.633 --> 45:10.833
You see discussions
of late 19th century

45:10.833 --> 45:13.299
that the black race is just
going to dwindle and disappear

45:13.300 --> 45:16.333
because they are unable to
take care of themselves.

45:16.333 --> 45:18.399
They die of disease
more than whites,

45:18.400 --> 45:20.366
they lack the mental
powers, et cetera.

45:20.366 --> 45:23.166
And it continues this
discussion about the Civil War

45:23.166 --> 45:25.366
and draws all these
conclusions incorrectly

45:25.366 --> 45:27.799
from what happened there.

45:27.800 --> 45:29.800
So instead of seeing
the disease mortality

45:29.800 --> 45:31.366
of black soldiers
in the Civil War

45:31.366 --> 45:34.166
as an indictment of their
treatment by the Union Army,

45:34.166 --> 45:36.099
most contemporary
observers concluded

45:36.100 --> 45:39.166
the black man was intrinsically
weaker than the white.

45:39.166 --> 45:40.766
This argument
presaged assumptions

45:40.766 --> 45:42.899
about racial degeneration
that would follow later

45:42.900 --> 45:45.100
in the century.

45:45.100 --> 45:46.966
But there was one
dissent which is

45:46.966 --> 45:51.099
what gives my paper its
title in my book its title.

45:51.100 --> 45:53.500
These two officers
were in the scenes

45:53.500 --> 45:56.466
of South Carolina among
the earliest places

45:56.466 --> 45:57.899
where black troops
were recruited,

45:57.900 --> 45:59.900
they're both
Massachusetts people

45:59.900 --> 46:01.666
of abolitionist tendencies.

46:01.666 --> 46:03.699
And they got the US
century commission

46:03.700 --> 46:07.133
survey about how blacks
are different from whites.

46:07.133 --> 46:09.033
And "General Saxton,
examining with some

46:09.033 --> 46:10.933
impatience a long
list of questions

46:10.933 --> 46:13.733
from some philanthropic
commission at the North

46:13.733 --> 46:16.199
respecting the traits and
habits of the freedmen.

46:16.200 --> 46:19.200
bade some staff-officer
answer them all in two words,

46:19.200 --> 46:21.200
"Intensely human."

46:21.200 --> 46:23.866
We all admitted that was a
striking and comprehensive

46:23.866 --> 46:25.899
description.

46:25.900 --> 46:28.400
So thanks to the National
Library Medicine.

46:28.400 --> 46:31.666
ACLS, National Humanities
Center, the Trent Family,

46:31.666 --> 46:33.232
and Duke University.

46:33.233 --> 46:35.099
So I'll be glad to
answer your question.

46:35.100 --> 46:40.166
[Applause]

46:40.166 --> 46:41.199
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] Don't go away.

46:41.200 --> 46:43.600
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I'm not.

46:43.600 --> 46:47.200
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] We have time for
questions, comments.

46:47.200 --> 46:50.033
You which should have
a mike in front of you.

46:50.033 --> 46:54.066
If you press the little
button, the red light comes on

46:54.066 --> 46:56.999
and then everybody should
be able to hear you.

46:57.000 --> 46:57.933
Yes.

46:57.933 --> 46:58.499
[Audience:] Hi.

46:58.500 --> 47:00.000
That was fascinating.

47:00.000 --> 47:01.333
Thank you.

47:01.333 --> 47:03.699
Was Hikinson a friend
of Emily Dickinson

47:03.700 --> 47:09.066
and was he part of the
Quaker group up in Amherst,

47:09.066 --> 47:11.732
I seem to remember that.

47:11.733 --> 47:14.499
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I think so.

47:14.500 --> 47:18.300
I'd say about 85%, yes.

47:18.300 --> 47:20.366
Somebody could probably
Google and by the time

47:20.366 --> 47:21.266
I'm done talking.

47:21.266 --> 47:23.999
But that sounds familiar.

47:24.000 --> 47:28.033
I read his memoirs quite a
few years ago and he certainly

47:28.033 --> 47:29.766
of that ilk and I'm
pretty sure you're

47:29.766 --> 47:31.599
right that he is
part of that group.

47:31.600 --> 47:33.833
[Audience:] Because I come at
it from totally not being

47:33.833 --> 47:36.499
a historian, but I just
wrote a book called--

47:36.500 --> 47:38.566
it's something
about Hummingbird's.

47:38.566 --> 47:41.966
And there's a group of
poets, Emily Dickinson

47:41.966 --> 47:47.799
and a group in Amherst who were
all abolitionists and worked

47:47.800 --> 47:51.066
together and use the symbol
of hummingbirds for freedom.

47:51.066 --> 47:52.699
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
That's interesting.

47:52.700 --> 47:54.200
[Audience:] A summer
of hummingbirds.

47:54.200 --> 47:55.200
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
Summer of hummingbirds.

47:55.200 --> 47:55.933
OK.

47:55.933 --> 47:56.833
Thanks.

47:56.833 --> 47:59.299
[Silence]

47:59.300 --> 48:00.266
Others?

48:00.266 --> 48:01.666
Yes.

48:01.666 --> 48:03.966
[Jill:] I think I've asked you
this question once before,

48:03.966 --> 48:05.499
but I'm going to ask you again.

48:05.500 --> 48:06.466
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Hi.

48:06.466 --> 48:08.099
[Jill:]  Hi.

48:08.100 --> 48:11.166
Do you think that the health
and care of black soldiers

48:11.166 --> 48:13.799
might have been
different if there

48:13.800 --> 48:15.933
were more black physicians
that were surgeons

48:15.933 --> 48:21.766
tending to those troops in
the field, or in the hospitals

48:21.766 --> 48:22.599
also?

48:22.600 --> 48:24.833
[...]

48:24.833 --> 48:29.166
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I can't
help but think so.

48:29.166 --> 48:34.199
Ira Russell in St. Louis had
heard this claim that you can't,

48:34.200 --> 48:36.266
just can't treat a black guy.

48:36.266 --> 48:39.966
He gets sick, he turns his
face to the wall and he dies.

48:39.966 --> 48:42.599
They don't have the will
to live blah, blah, blah.

48:42.600 --> 48:45.733
And what Russell had
who was sympathetic

48:45.733 --> 48:46.599
to the black soldier.

48:46.600 --> 48:50.200
He had one ward of a doctor
who provided what he saw

48:50.200 --> 48:52.666
as good care, attentive care.

48:52.666 --> 48:55.266
He doesn't go into detail
he just characterizes it

48:55.266 --> 48:57.766
as the doctors paying attention.

48:57.766 --> 49:00.099
And another ward where the
guys were dying more than

49:00.100 --> 49:01.300
in the first ward.

49:01.300 --> 49:05.733
And the second ward, the high
mortality ward the doctor

49:05.733 --> 49:07.699
said, well you just
can't treat black guys

49:07.700 --> 49:10.133
or my black guys are
sicker than the other one

49:10.133 --> 49:15.799
or it's not my fault.
So Russell switched them

49:15.800 --> 49:19.400
and found that the mortality
switched with them,

49:19.400 --> 49:23.766
that it did make a difference.

49:23.766 --> 49:26.499
It seems to me the most
important things are not

49:26.500 --> 49:31.933
actually things that doctors, per
se have that much to do with.

49:31.933 --> 49:36.033
But it's keeping the
patient clean, fed,

49:36.033 --> 49:42.399
hydrated, dealing with pain,
changing the dressings,

49:42.400 --> 49:44.733
that sort of thing.

49:44.733 --> 49:48.433
And if you just think about
if you attended people

49:48.433 --> 49:51.533
in the hospital who
are not very able

49:51.533 --> 49:54.566
and the person bringing
in the tray just

49:54.566 --> 49:56.966
slops it down on the
table, near the door

49:56.966 --> 49:59.466
where the person in the
bed can't even reach it.

49:59.466 --> 50:01.132
And it sits there
for three hours

50:01.133 --> 50:03.966
and then the tray is taken
away, versus a situation where

50:03.966 --> 50:06.432
a family member puts the
tray after the person

50:06.433 --> 50:08.366
and does one spoonful at a time.

50:08.366 --> 50:13.032
That sort of thing
makes a difference.

50:13.033 --> 50:16.166
I don't think that
in the Civil War

50:16.166 --> 50:18.799
the specific qualifications
probably mattered

50:18.800 --> 50:20.700
that much for the
doctors, so much

50:20.700 --> 50:22.866
is attentiveness and caring.

50:22.866 --> 50:27.932
So if the black doctors were
more attentive in caring,

50:27.933 --> 50:32.433
then yes, I think it would
have made a difference.

50:32.433 --> 50:34.566
You want to follow up on that.

50:34.566 --> 50:36.799
I can't prove it,
it's a counterfeit.

50:36.800 --> 50:40.000
[Jill:] I can't prove it either.

50:40.000 --> 50:43.466
I think the black surgeons some
of them cared more than others

50:43.466 --> 50:45.132
just like anybody.

50:45.133 --> 50:49.166
And I think there's some
evidence that some of them

50:49.166 --> 50:51.032
were accused of
neglecting their patients

50:51.033 --> 50:54.999
and others clearly gave
their patients good care.

50:55.000 --> 51:00.533
But I would think that most
of the surgeons that I know of

51:00.533 --> 51:02.199
went in because
they wanted to be

51:02.200 --> 51:04.433
part of the fight
for freedom and they

51:04.433 --> 51:05.899
wanted to serve their race.

51:05.900 --> 51:08.666
So they were going in there with
a different intent that maybe

51:08.666 --> 51:10.899
some of the surgeons that
were looking for promotions

51:10.900 --> 51:12.200
or advancement or something.

51:12.200 --> 51:13.300
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Right.

51:13.300 --> 51:15.000
I agree.

51:15.000 --> 51:18.300
There's a fair number
of surgeons white

51:18.300 --> 51:20.533
mostly, because most of them
are white who were drunks

51:20.533 --> 51:22.933
and who took advantage
of the access

51:22.933 --> 51:26.166
to narcotics and
all the rest of it.

51:26.166 --> 51:28.199
You have to factor that in.

51:28.200 --> 51:32.800
I do think it's likely
that the common,

51:32.800 --> 51:37.133
particularly those who go in
with the sense of a cause would

51:37.133 --> 51:41.133
have worked harder
than those who didn't.

51:41.133 --> 51:43.799
[...]

51:43.800 --> 51:44.300
Yes.

51:44.300 --> 51:50.533
[Audience:] Dr. Margaret, is there
any data or historical writing

51:50.533 --> 51:58.699
about the medical care that
freed black communities perhaps

51:58.700 --> 52:04.733
in the North, how their health
was in the same time period

52:04.733 --> 52:11.233
to compare the war
experience-- to civilians?

52:11.233 --> 52:12.599
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
I understand.

52:15.633 --> 52:19.433
There were parts
of the major cities

52:19.433 --> 52:21.366
of the North
Philadelphia, Boston, New

52:21.366 --> 52:25.766
York that were black, free
blacks, obviously there

52:25.766 --> 52:29.266
in the northern communities.

52:29.266 --> 52:34.066
These people would
have been, of course

52:34.066 --> 52:36.766
more prone to be impoverished.

52:36.766 --> 52:41.866
And lack access to health care
because of the impoverishment

52:41.866 --> 52:44.932
and to live in very
crowded conditions.

52:44.933 --> 52:49.199
The Robert Bartholow who
wrote the recruiting manual

52:49.200 --> 52:53.300
for white troops in
the North, the doctor--

52:53.300 --> 52:57.433
I'm sorry, the doctor doing the
exams at recruiting stations

52:57.433 --> 53:00.799
said about, once they started
doing black soldiers he

53:00.800 --> 53:02.500
added a section
on black soldiers

53:02.500 --> 53:07.200
and said that it was very common
for them to have tuberculosis.

53:07.200 --> 53:09.666
Now we know that particularly
from Benton Barracks

53:09.666 --> 53:12.566
that the ex-slaves
didn't have much TB.

53:12.566 --> 53:15.266
But the blacks living
in northern towns

53:15.266 --> 53:17.599
probably did, because
tuberculosis was extremely

53:17.600 --> 53:20.133
common in northern urban areas.

53:20.133 --> 53:23.599
In that era and we know
from Samuel Roberts' work.

53:23.600 --> 53:26.400
After the Civil War that TB
for example, in Baltimore

53:26.400 --> 53:27.600
was a huge problem.

53:27.600 --> 53:32.600
So what diseases, what
particularly were the problems.

53:32.600 --> 53:37.766
I suspect tuberculosis was a
major problem in those areas.

53:37.766 --> 53:40.799
We know that for
just about everybody

53:40.800 --> 53:44.600
the diseases of poor water
supply in urban areas

53:44.600 --> 53:48.133
were, the fecal oral spread
diseases were very common,

53:48.133 --> 53:50.766
half the kids born
in Chicago in 1980

53:50.766 --> 53:53.999
die before they're
five years old.

53:54.000 --> 53:56.566
And I'm standing up here
with some trepidation

53:56.566 --> 53:59.366
because Liz knows more
about Northern public health

53:59.366 --> 54:01.766
than I do.

54:01.766 --> 54:05.499
So it might be hard to
separate out black health

54:05.500 --> 54:09.200
from poor urban health.

54:09.200 --> 54:10.566
[Audience:] What I
was hearing you,

54:10.566 --> 54:12.499
you were talking
about economics.

54:12.500 --> 54:14.800
You were talking
about impoverishment,

54:14.800 --> 54:18.400
so health has always
been a problem for people

54:18.400 --> 54:19.800
who can't afford medical care.

54:19.800 --> 54:20.900
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Right.

54:20.900 --> 54:23.666
And people who can't afford to
live in a decent part of town.

54:23.666 --> 54:25.832
And all the things that
go with that better food.

54:25.833 --> 54:27.799
[Audience:] Even into today.

54:27.800 --> 54:29.533
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Absolutely.

54:29.533 --> 54:31.699
But I don't have
a sense that there

54:31.700 --> 54:36.133
was enough of a force, enough
of a recognition of "black health"

54:36.133 --> 54:41.699
problems before the war in the
North to create any knowledge.

54:41.700 --> 54:43.100
Liz, can you think of any.

54:43.100 --> 54:44.800
I can't think of any
discussion of that.

54:44.800 --> 54:48.366
That most of the discussions of
black health-- antebellum

54:48.366 --> 54:52.399
were about slaves or
about southern cities.

54:52.400 --> 54:56.433
And I don't have a
sense in the North.

54:56.433 --> 54:59.599
That the North the
conversation starts more

54:59.600 --> 55:03.900
toward 1880s, the 1890s.

55:03.900 --> 55:07.866
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] We have a question
there at the end of the road.

55:07.866 --> 55:09.332
[Audience:] Yes.

55:09.333 --> 55:13.166
Did these men also make
comments about black women

55:13.166 --> 55:17.599
who served in the Civil
War as nurses and cooks?

55:17.600 --> 55:19.300
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] OK.

55:19.300 --> 55:24.100
A couple of points
to make about that.

55:24.100 --> 55:26.433
First of all, black
female mortality

55:26.433 --> 55:28.699
during the war
particularly contraband,

55:28.700 --> 55:32.100
camps for women
who were associated

55:32.100 --> 55:35.533
with the black troops who were
their spouses and so forth,

55:35.533 --> 55:36.899
was very high.

55:36.900 --> 55:39.800
Perhaps even higher than
the black male mortality.

55:39.800 --> 55:43.233
My colleague, [?]
at Duke University

55:43.233 --> 55:46.833
has tried to capture some of
that horrific mortality, which

55:46.833 --> 55:48.633
is not very well documented.

55:48.633 --> 55:52.099
So that's one side of it.

55:52.100 --> 55:56.766
And the exhibit does
this better probably

55:56.766 --> 55:58.499
than I'm going to be
able to do here now.

55:58.500 --> 56:02.133
There were a lot of places that
black women served in a health

56:02.133 --> 56:03.933
role during the war.

56:03.933 --> 56:07.799
First of all in the South,
slaves or free blacks

56:07.800 --> 56:09.866
were conscripted
into the hospitals

56:09.866 --> 56:11.199
and did a lot of the work there.

56:11.200 --> 56:12.666
But that's probably
not what you're

56:12.666 --> 56:15.366
particularly interested
in or at least

56:15.366 --> 56:16.899
we could talk about that more.

56:16.900 --> 56:20.033
In the North the
black women were

56:20.033 --> 56:24.399
brought in to nurse in the
black wards of the hospitals

56:24.400 --> 56:26.933
or in the contraband
hospitals, which were often

56:26.933 --> 56:28.799
a mix of black soldiers.

56:28.800 --> 56:30.633
[...]

56:30.633 --> 56:33.366
The freed blacks...

56:33.366 --> 56:34.932
The contraband hospitals
become the

56:34.933 --> 56:37.233
Freedmen's Bureau
hospitals.

56:37.233 --> 56:39.533
There's this evolution.

56:39.533 --> 56:41.399
Some places we know
that in St. Louis,

56:41.400 --> 56:44.800
Ira Russell set up a training
program for black nurses,

56:44.800 --> 56:47.333
for his black wards.

56:47.333 --> 56:49.466
Whether that happened elsewhere.

56:49.466 --> 56:50.032
I don't know.

56:50.033 --> 56:51.899
Did you find other?

56:51.900 --> 56:52.800
[Jill:] That didn't really.

56:52.800 --> 56:54.066
Jill has looked at
this more than I have.

56:54.066 --> 56:54.566
[Jill:] Yeah.

56:54.566 --> 56:56.266
As far as training
I have in most

56:56.266 --> 57:00.299
of the nurses that
I came across,

57:00.300 --> 57:04.666
they were former slaves.

57:04.666 --> 57:07.932
Especially here in Washington,
they came to Washington,

57:07.933 --> 57:09.633
they were sick they
went to the hospitals

57:09.633 --> 57:11.233
and then they were
hired as nurses.

57:11.233 --> 57:14.366
So a lot of it I think was
just on the job training.

57:14.366 --> 57:16.699
And whatever skills
that came with.

57:16.700 --> 57:19.200
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] And it's
important to realize that there

57:19.200 --> 57:21.866
were no formal nurse training
programs in the United States

57:21.866 --> 57:25.599
until after the war that,
the war is a transition

57:25.600 --> 57:28.766
point in the professionalization
of nursing and the concept

57:28.766 --> 57:30.766
the hospital should
have trained nurses.

57:30.766 --> 57:35.032
So the most of the nursing
skills that were needed

57:35.033 --> 57:37.699
were the kinds of
skills that a servant

57:37.700 --> 57:43.166
would have whether a slave or
paid wage or a mother, a sister

57:43.166 --> 57:44.332
would have.

57:44.333 --> 57:47.866
It was more a matter
of professionalization

57:47.866 --> 57:51.099
in terms of being able to
accept the gore, accept the smell,

57:51.100 --> 57:54.400
do distasteful task, all these
are kind of behavioral training

57:54.400 --> 57:55.600
things.

57:55.600 --> 57:59.533
[...]

57:59.533 --> 58:01.133
And if Jane Schultz
was here, who's

58:01.133 --> 58:03.033
written about women
health workers in the war,

58:03.033 --> 58:05.766
she knows more about black
women nurses than I do.

58:05.766 --> 58:10.299
So I'll just yield at that.

58:10.300 --> 58:11.833
In the very back.

58:11.833 --> 58:15.433
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] Right here and
then the next one.

58:15.433 --> 58:19.766
[Audience:] My question kind
of piggybacks on Cynthia's,

58:19.766 --> 58:23.632
but I was thinking along
the same lines about camp

58:23.633 --> 58:24.366
followers.

58:24.366 --> 58:27.299
We know that there's
documentation

58:27.300 --> 58:31.600
of wives going with their
husbands to war and sisters

58:31.600 --> 58:35.633
or whomever to help
with the nursing duties.

58:35.633 --> 58:38.799
And I wasn't sure if
the black soldiers

58:38.800 --> 58:42.333
had something that was
equivalent especially,

58:42.333 --> 58:46.499
since a lot of them I guess
were slaves who were bought

58:46.500 --> 58:51.266
by the union and most probably
their wives or whomever were

58:51.266 --> 58:55.932
not-- Simultaneously bought.

58:55.933 --> 59:00.566
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Let's see.

59:00.566 --> 59:03.532
A couple of things
to say about that.

59:03.533 --> 59:07.733
Most of the time I think it's
fair to say that wives did not

59:07.733 --> 59:10.099
hang around the
regiments just when they

59:10.100 --> 59:11.866
were in the field or whatnot.

59:11.866 --> 59:14.566
But might well show up
at the hospital if--

59:14.566 --> 59:18.566
this is white wives, if their
relative is in the hospital

59:18.566 --> 59:21.066
to come help with the nursing.

59:21.066 --> 59:26.966
Black women, more than white
tried to stay with their men.

59:26.966 --> 59:29.132
Say, there were
instances in Kentucky,

59:29.133 --> 59:30.999
where the slaves
had been gathered

59:31.000 --> 59:33.466
into some regiment or
some mustering and spot

59:33.466 --> 59:35.699
and the women followed
them and they're camping

59:35.700 --> 59:38.500
outside the gate with their
children it's they're starving.

59:38.500 --> 59:42.433
They have no means of support.

59:42.433 --> 59:45.666
Maybe their slave owner
has thrown them out

59:45.666 --> 59:49.499
because their husband
has left or chose to go

59:49.500 --> 59:51.000
when the owner didn't want it.

59:51.000 --> 59:53.900
And the Union Army
said to they ended up

59:53.900 --> 59:55.133
driving those women away.

59:55.133 --> 59:56.499
They didn't want
to support them,

59:56.500 --> 59:59.233
they couldn't support them
they need to take that regiment

59:59.233 --> 01:00:00.699
and go someplace else.

01:00:00.700 --> 01:00:02.300
And so the women
were abandoned, which

01:00:02.300 --> 01:00:06.466
is one of the reasons why
you get such high mortality.

01:00:06.466 --> 01:00:10.132
Did they end up in St.. Louis
to become some of those nurses

01:00:10.133 --> 01:00:12.633
that Russell was trying
to train? Probably,

01:00:12.633 --> 01:00:15.733
although St. Louis was a
refugee center in general.

01:00:15.733 --> 01:00:19.999
It was very hard for
illiterate slave women

01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:22.300
to figure out where their
men were because they

01:00:22.300 --> 01:00:23.733
couldn't write them.

01:00:23.733 --> 01:00:26.133
The husband couldn't write
them and say I'm here,

01:00:26.133 --> 01:00:27.799
I've gone there.

01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.866
And so of course, one of the
big things after the war was

01:00:30.866 --> 01:00:32.299
getting those people reunited.

01:00:32.300 --> 01:00:34.466
But it was harder
for them to know

01:00:34.466 --> 01:00:38.032
what hospital their man was in
if he didn't know the hospital.

01:00:38.033 --> 01:00:46.399
[...]

01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:47.766
You need to turn
yours off Steve,

01:00:47.766 --> 01:00:49.666
I think so she
would turn hers on.

01:00:49.666 --> 01:00:52.099
Now try.

01:00:52.100 --> 01:00:54.966
Maybe not.

01:00:54.966 --> 01:00:55.532
[Audience:] OK.

01:00:55.533 --> 01:00:58.933
So I found it interesting
that the Union Army didn't

01:00:58.933 --> 01:01:02.699
care about the black soldiers
as far as their health

01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:05.066
knowing that they needed
them in their army

01:01:05.066 --> 01:01:06.799
to fight in the Civil War.

01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:12.100
So was there any research
to suggest a decrease

01:01:12.100 --> 01:01:14.566
in the mortality rate
after Russell came out

01:01:14.566 --> 01:01:17.599
with his findings?

01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:20.733
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I'd say no.

01:01:20.733 --> 01:01:24.533
Russell tried and he also got--

01:01:24.533 --> 01:01:26.633
Russell was from
Massachusetts and there's

01:01:26.633 --> 01:01:31.199
a Massachusetts theme here
of decent people trying

01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:33.233
to do the right thing.

01:01:33.233 --> 01:01:37.466
Russell talked to his
state sen... the Senator

01:01:37.466 --> 01:01:41.266
from Massachusetts, Henry Wilson
about the situation in St.

01:01:41.266 --> 01:01:43.899
Louis and how badly,
thought they weren't

01:01:43.900 --> 01:01:45.233
being given hospital beds.

01:01:45.233 --> 01:01:49.233
And Wilson said on the floor of
the Senate what was going on,

01:01:49.233 --> 01:01:51.233
which got some people riled up.

01:01:51.233 --> 01:01:55.899
So he tried and
I think you could

01:01:55.900 --> 01:01:58.333
argue that the union
should have treated

01:01:58.333 --> 01:02:00.999
the black men better just from
a purely practical point of view

01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:03.466
because they needed the
bodies, but the same argument

01:02:03.466 --> 01:02:06.032
has been made about slavery.

01:02:06.033 --> 01:02:09.166
Slaveholders should have
treated their possessions better

01:02:09.166 --> 01:02:12.199
because it cost so much money,
but we know they didn't.

01:02:12.200 --> 01:02:15.333
And we know for example how
small slave children were

01:02:15.333 --> 01:02:19.633
and how poorly fed
they were and how

01:02:19.633 --> 01:02:21.933
mount the bones we have
from slave cemeteries,

01:02:21.933 --> 01:02:24.866
how malnourished they were.

01:02:24.866 --> 01:02:28.532
My general argument
about this is

01:02:28.533 --> 01:02:31.933
that soldiers who can self
advocate who can write home,

01:02:31.933 --> 01:02:34.199
who can get their
state Senator involved,

01:02:34.200 --> 01:02:36.533
can get improved
conditions, but those

01:02:36.533 --> 01:02:40.966
who are not tied in any way
really can become helpless.

01:02:40.966 --> 01:02:42.932
And the worst case this
was in Texas, where

01:02:42.933 --> 01:02:44.966
they were completely isolated.

01:02:44.966 --> 01:02:48.499
And only because of a
Sanitary Commission guy,

01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:50.766
seeing what's going on, do
we know anything about it.

01:02:50.766 --> 01:02:54.232
Much less was there
an intervention.

01:02:54.233 --> 01:02:57.733
We tend to think of soldiers
as this rah, rah great thing

01:02:57.733 --> 01:03:00.199
that the country
admires, perhaps,

01:03:00.200 --> 01:03:04.766
but there's also the view of
soldiers as just hired hands.

01:03:04.766 --> 01:03:11.199
The way the British for example,
looked upon the Hessians,

01:03:11.200 --> 01:03:12.400
that they didn't care about.

01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:14.566
They just hired the bodies.

01:03:14.566 --> 01:03:17.132
[...]

01:03:17.133 --> 01:03:21.699
I think in this case, the
fact that they basically

01:03:21.700 --> 01:03:23.933
bought slaves to
put them in the army

01:03:23.933 --> 01:03:27.266
is going to really denigrate
their value in their eyes

01:03:27.266 --> 01:03:28.766
in terms of being
human beings who

01:03:28.766 --> 01:03:30.732
deserve to be treated properly.

01:03:30.733 --> 01:03:33.399
[...]

01:03:33.400 --> 01:03:34.500
[Stephen Greenberg:] Two things.

01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:36.066
First of all as a
kind of a shameless

01:03:36.066 --> 01:03:39.366
plug, Jane Schultz will
be our speaker in May.

01:03:39.366 --> 01:03:40.332
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] OK.

01:03:40.333 --> 01:03:42.133
[Stephen Greenberg:] Remember
your question.

01:03:42.133 --> 01:03:44.566
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Can I just
say to Jane Schultz is then.

01:03:44.566 --> 01:03:47.266
Jane Schultz has written a book
about nursing in the Civil War

01:03:47.266 --> 01:03:49.399
and continues to work on
medicine in the Civil War.

01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:53.566
She's at Indiana University,
Purdue University, Indianapolis

01:03:53.566 --> 01:03:54.799
and she's a very good scholar.

01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:55.300
So good.

01:03:55.300 --> 01:03:56.833
She's coming in.

01:03:56.833 --> 01:03:59.399
OK.

01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:02.166
[Stephen Greenberg:] As a Civil War
went on and the Union Army

01:04:02.166 --> 01:04:05.899
went from a volunteer
force to a conscript force,

01:04:05.900 --> 01:04:07.833
did the help of
the white soldiers

01:04:07.833 --> 01:04:13.066
also decrease since they were
not getting, I'm healthy,

01:04:13.066 --> 01:04:15.299
I'm going to volunteer for
a good course as opposed

01:04:15.300 --> 01:04:19.533
to well what's the
bounty if I join now?

01:04:19.533 --> 01:04:21.233
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
Stephen points out

01:04:21.233 --> 01:04:23.399
the first couple of
years of the war,

01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:26.866
the white union soldiers
were volunteers.

01:04:26.866 --> 01:04:30.999
And I think it's March
1863, don't hold me to that.

01:04:31.000 --> 01:04:33.900
But I think that's when the
draft law goes into effect.

01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:38.333
That men become
susceptible to the draft.

01:04:38.333 --> 01:04:40.266
And they get forced
into the army.

01:04:40.266 --> 01:04:47.032
Now were those men necessarily
of more or less good health?

01:04:47.033 --> 01:04:49.633
I'm not sure necessarily
that the conscripts were

01:04:49.633 --> 01:04:58.233
of lower health per
se, because they might

01:04:58.233 --> 01:04:59.566
have several characteristics.

01:04:59.566 --> 01:05:03.266
One is that they are somehow
less patriotic, or less

01:05:03.266 --> 01:05:07.199
willing to serve, or perhaps
more successful financially.

01:05:07.200 --> 01:05:10.033
In other words, they're running
their dry goods store or whatever

01:05:10.033 --> 01:05:12.599
and they don't want to go.

01:05:12.600 --> 01:05:14.400
Many of them would
have been immigrants,

01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:16.566
the Irish immigrants that
are continuing to come in.

01:05:16.566 --> 01:05:18.532
And so maybe they
were of course help.

01:05:18.533 --> 01:05:20.899
On the other hand, they may
have been living in the slums

01:05:20.900 --> 01:05:23.666
in New York and
thus exposed to--

01:05:23.666 --> 01:05:26.099
the bad news is they're living
in the slums of New York,

01:05:26.100 --> 01:05:28.566
the good news is they've already
had smallpox, and measles,

01:05:28.566 --> 01:05:29.666
and mumps, and rubella.

01:05:29.666 --> 01:05:32.966
Compared to farm boys
from Indiana in 1862

01:05:32.966 --> 01:05:35.699
who then had all those diseases
these are the white soldiers

01:05:35.700 --> 01:05:38.133
now.

01:05:38.133 --> 01:05:41.599
So you get a lot of
invalided in the first year.

01:05:41.600 --> 01:05:43.333
The first nine months
of soldiers and it

01:05:43.333 --> 01:05:47.933
becomes malaria, he may
well be pretty useless.

01:05:47.933 --> 01:05:51.199
But then another countervailing
thing to all that

01:05:51.200 --> 01:05:55.966
is that as the army gets more
and more desperate for men,

01:05:55.966 --> 01:05:57.699
the recruiting
officers are pushed

01:05:57.700 --> 01:06:04.100
to look less and less closely
at the guys they're examining.

01:06:04.100 --> 01:06:07.366
And we know that probably
several hundred women

01:06:07.366 --> 01:06:12.199
served in the Union Army
in the Civil War as men.

01:06:12.200 --> 01:06:16.533
So obviously they didn't get
a very thorough physical exam

01:06:16.533 --> 01:06:19.433
when they were brought in.

01:06:19.433 --> 01:06:22.099
I don't know.

01:06:22.100 --> 01:06:28.033
The union, you start to see a
seasoning effect in the troops.

01:06:28.033 --> 01:06:31.533
And the problem is if you
look at regiment by regiment,

01:06:31.533 --> 01:06:35.199
a regiment will shrink and then
they'll bring in 200 new guys,

01:06:35.200 --> 01:06:36.566
but it's still
the same regiment.

01:06:36.566 --> 01:06:40.466
And unless you go
card by card to know

01:06:40.466 --> 01:06:44.899
how long person A his service
is person B, I don't know.

01:06:44.900 --> 01:06:49.266
I don't remember seeing
a comment on that,

01:06:49.266 --> 01:06:52.166
but there may well
be information.

01:06:52.166 --> 01:06:54.732
That's a good question.

01:06:54.733 --> 01:06:56.166
Actually, it's not
a good question

01:06:56.166 --> 01:06:57.132
since I don't know the answer.

01:06:57.133 --> 01:06:58.199
So it makes you look bad.

01:06:58.200 --> 01:06:59.666
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee: ]Any other
question, comments.

01:06:59.666 --> 01:07:01.399
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Yes, ma'am.

01:07:01.400 --> 01:07:02.000
[Audience:] Yes.

01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:02.633
I was curious.

01:07:02.633 --> 01:07:04.999
Is there any indication of
what Abraham Lincoln thought

01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:09.400
about this disparity
either for humane reasons

01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.166
or because of the detrimental
effect on the war?

01:07:12.166 --> 01:07:15.132
[...]

01:07:15.133 --> 01:07:17.866
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I do not
remember seeing any comment

01:07:17.866 --> 01:07:19.466
from Lincoln about this.

01:07:19.466 --> 01:07:22.266
I just have to say that.

01:07:22.266 --> 01:07:24.599
There's I don't know how many
volumes of Lincoln papers

01:07:24.600 --> 01:07:27.033
and stuff and have
I looked for it.

01:07:27.033 --> 01:07:28.933
No.

01:07:28.933 --> 01:07:31.566
Lincoln does not
get very involved

01:07:31.566 --> 01:07:33.966
in health issues in general,
he didn't see the point

01:07:33.966 --> 01:07:36.932
of the Sanitary Commission.

01:07:36.933 --> 01:07:39.799
He gets involved in the fights
over the surgeon general,

01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:41.800
but it's very top level stuff.

01:07:41.800 --> 01:07:45.333
It's political stuff not
much concern or awareness

01:07:45.333 --> 01:07:46.933
of the health of soldiers.

01:07:46.933 --> 01:07:49.233
[...]

01:07:49.233 --> 01:07:54.199
I can't remember him going
to a hospital or something.

01:07:54.200 --> 01:07:54.900
He does do that?

01:07:54.900 --> 01:07:55.866
OK.

01:07:55.866 --> 01:07:59.066
So he does do that.

01:07:59.066 --> 01:08:01.232
But I don't know the
answer to that question.

01:08:01.233 --> 01:08:02.199
Sorry.

01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:02.700
Stephen.

01:08:02.700 --> 01:08:05.666
[Stephen Greenberg:] We have diaries
of the nurses saying

01:08:05.666 --> 01:08:08.299
"Mr. Lincoln came by today."
Jill what's the hospital,

01:08:08.300 --> 01:08:10.766
he's always walking past.

01:08:10.766 --> 01:08:12.132
Armory Square?

01:08:12.133 --> 01:08:13.866
[Jill:] I think
Armory Square.

01:08:13.866 --> 01:08:17.099
Also there is some
evidence of him going

01:08:17.100 --> 01:08:19.133
past on, his way to
the soldiers home

01:08:19.133 --> 01:08:22.299
stopping at the contraband
camp and hospital.

01:08:22.300 --> 01:08:25.900
[Stephen Greenberg:] But he's doing it
more as a it bothers him

01:08:25.900 --> 01:08:28.733
that these people had
been injured in the war.

01:08:28.733 --> 01:08:30.399
I don't think he made
any distinction is

01:08:30.400 --> 01:08:32.733
to someone who had been
shot or someone who had

01:08:32.733 --> 01:08:36.699
quite some sort of camp fever.

01:08:36.700 --> 01:08:38.700
If I can draw a distinction
between the health

01:08:38.700 --> 01:08:41.600
of the soldiers and the
injuries to the soldiers,

01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:44.066
he cared very deeply
about their injuries,

01:08:44.066 --> 01:08:45.866
but he may not have
cared about their health

01:08:45.866 --> 01:08:47.766
as an institutional--

01:08:47.766 --> 01:08:49.299
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Why?

01:08:49.300 --> 01:08:53.000
[Stephen Greenberg:] That's the fine line.

01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:55.300
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] I get it.

01:08:55.300 --> 01:08:57.900
[Audience:] Just one more quick
question about mental health.

01:08:57.900 --> 01:09:00.700
Was there any attention
paid to mental health,

01:09:00.700 --> 01:09:03.366
either during or after
the war like for example,

01:09:03.366 --> 01:09:05.399
the equivalent of
post-traumatic stress disorder,

01:09:05.400 --> 01:09:09.100
I think it was called
disordered action of the heart.

01:09:09.100 --> 01:09:12.500
Was there a difference
between the blacks and whites?

01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:13.433
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] OK.

01:09:13.433 --> 01:09:18.266
There has been a fair
bit written about that.

01:09:18.266 --> 01:09:20.466
One of the Sanitary
Commission questions

01:09:20.466 --> 01:09:22.666
on their questionnaire
was about that.

01:09:22.666 --> 01:09:29.366
And one of their assumptions
was that in order to have this,

01:09:29.366 --> 01:09:34.232
they call it nostalgia in
part regret for missing home,

01:09:34.233 --> 01:09:35.633
if you will.

01:09:35.633 --> 01:09:38.099
They said slaves and
ex-slaves didn't get nostalgic

01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:40.100
because what are they
going to be nostalgic for,

01:09:40.100 --> 01:09:42.700
the plantation?

01:09:42.700 --> 01:09:45.766
They also though talked
about mental weakness

01:09:45.766 --> 01:09:48.366
and just deciding not to live.

01:09:48.366 --> 01:09:50.699
As I said just turning their
head to the wall and dying.

01:09:50.700 --> 01:09:56.833
So they see a lack of mental
power, but they don't see that.

01:09:56.833 --> 01:09:59.733
It seems to me necessarily
as a result of the battle

01:09:59.733 --> 01:10:01.733
experience or the
war experiences

01:10:01.733 --> 01:10:05.566
just the generic weakness.

01:10:05.566 --> 01:10:07.899
There is this irritable
heart of soldiers

01:10:07.900 --> 01:10:10.733
that there's a fellow
named Jacob DaCosta

01:10:10.733 --> 01:10:12.599
who wrote about it.

01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:15.066
He studied it in Philadelphia.

01:10:15.066 --> 01:10:19.066
And his irritable heart were
symptoms of palpitations,

01:10:19.066 --> 01:10:21.666
or heart racing, or
whatever and it's

01:10:21.666 --> 01:10:25.099
one of the symptoms of a
totally stressed out person.

01:10:25.100 --> 01:10:27.200
And Da Costa
focused on the heart

01:10:27.200 --> 01:10:30.666
but he also saw the
mental correlates of it.

01:10:30.666 --> 01:10:35.132
But I don't think Da Costa
saw black soldiers in that.

01:10:35.133 --> 01:10:37.599
My guess would be
that if you ask him

01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:41.000
he would say that black
men aren't sensitive enough

01:10:41.000 --> 01:10:42.466
to get this.

01:10:42.466 --> 01:10:44.866
That you have to
have the higher tone,

01:10:44.866 --> 01:10:47.799
reaches of mental
capacity of the white man

01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:52.033
to acquire this
damage to your nerves.

01:10:52.033 --> 01:10:53.366
[...]

01:10:53.366 --> 01:10:58.766
There were some cases of
black men going completely

01:10:58.766 --> 01:11:00.499
off the rails
mentally, that they

01:11:00.500 --> 01:11:05.400
talked about but they saw
that as just insanity rather

01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:06.366
than PTSD.

01:11:06.366 --> 01:11:07.832
And of course, when you add in--

01:11:07.833 --> 01:11:08.199
No.

01:11:08.200 --> 01:11:08.600
Never known.

01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:10.000
I was going to say
added syphilis,

01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:12.700
but that wouldn't-- tertiary
syphilis wouldn't have been

01:11:12.700 --> 01:11:15.033
active during the war,
but might be later.

01:11:15.033 --> 01:11:18.633
We don't find it much in
the pension records later

01:11:18.633 --> 01:11:21.399
that there was any much
discussion of syphilis,

01:11:21.400 --> 01:11:24.866
but that's a whole
other question.

01:11:24.866 --> 01:11:28.532
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] We'll take the
one last question.

01:11:28.533 --> 01:11:31.533
[Audience:] How much was written
by the blacks themselves

01:11:31.533 --> 01:11:35.199
in comparison to the whites?

01:11:35.200 --> 01:11:38.133
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
Precious little.

01:11:38.133 --> 01:11:41.699
I think I have it all.

01:11:41.700 --> 01:11:45.066
There are a few letters
from black soldiers

01:11:45.066 --> 01:11:50.499
to the couple of
black newspapers.

01:11:50.500 --> 01:11:56.266
And sometimes like that thing
I quoted about the students who

01:11:56.266 --> 01:11:57.532
don't know what they're doing.

01:11:57.533 --> 01:12:02.166
That came from one
of those letters.

01:12:02.166 --> 01:12:08.532
There's a couple of
literate black soldiers

01:12:08.533 --> 01:12:10.266
who write about
their experiences

01:12:10.266 --> 01:12:15.732
or have diaries or letters home,
but it's frustratingly little.

01:12:15.733 --> 01:12:18.866
You can't depend on people
like Ira Russell who

01:12:18.866 --> 01:12:23.432
are sympathetic, who
sometimes quote them,

01:12:23.433 --> 01:12:25.699
but we don't have them.

01:12:25.700 --> 01:12:28.333
[Audience:] And none of the
black doctors wrote anything?

01:12:28.333 --> 01:12:32.433
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Well
Augusta wrote a lot

01:12:32.433 --> 01:12:36.133
of letters and kinda public things.

01:12:36.133 --> 01:12:37.933
Let me ask Jill.

01:12:37.933 --> 01:12:41.666
Talk about your sources
from the back there.

01:12:41.666 --> 01:12:44.766
She's one of the organizers
of the exhibit by the way.

01:12:44.766 --> 01:12:45.632
[Jill:] You're correct.

01:12:45.633 --> 01:12:48.866
Augusta did write
letters to newspapers

01:12:48.866 --> 01:12:54.266
as did some of the soldiers from
the regiments that could write.

01:12:54.266 --> 01:12:59.266
But again there is very
little personal accounts

01:12:59.266 --> 01:13:01.966
from surgeons, black
surgeons, and even fewer

01:13:01.966 --> 01:13:04.632
from black nurses.

01:13:04.633 --> 01:13:07.566
Some wrote letters
to family members.

01:13:07.566 --> 01:13:10.132
Like John Rapier was this was
an African-American surgeon

01:13:10.133 --> 01:13:11.033
and he wrote letters.

01:13:11.033 --> 01:13:14.166
And Moran Spingarn has
the Rapier Thomas records

01:13:14.166 --> 01:13:18.299
because other family members
were political figures.

01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:20.233
But it's really
few and far between

01:13:20.233 --> 01:13:23.899
to find them actually
writing letters and talking

01:13:23.900 --> 01:13:26.766
about their experiences.

01:13:26.766 --> 01:13:29.066
The letters that I found that
had been the most helpful

01:13:29.066 --> 01:13:30.966
are the ones that are
in the Christian Recorder

01:13:30.966 --> 01:13:34.299
or other newspapers where
soldiers and surgeons might

01:13:34.300 --> 01:13:37.233
write letters and talk
about their experiences.

01:13:37.233 --> 01:13:40.466
[...]

01:13:40.466 --> 01:13:42.899
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] Those who
still have questions

01:13:42.900 --> 01:13:45.600
are welcome to
come down the front

01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:48.133
to talk a little
more to Margaret

01:13:48.133 --> 01:13:50.233
or go out and buy their book.

01:13:50.233 --> 01:13:51.266
[Laughter]

01:13:51.266 --> 01:13:54.532
You get a look more of this.

01:13:54.533 --> 01:13:56.199
Really clap for Margaret.

01:13:56.200 --> 01:13:57.433
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Thank you.

01:13:57.433 --> 01:14:02.066
[Applause]

01:14:02.066 --> 01:14:02.566
Thanks.

01:14:02.566 --> 01:14:07.399
[...]

01:14:07.400 --> 01:14:09.066
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys off mike]

01:14:09.066 --> 01:14:11.799
I gave a version of this talk
at the College of Physicians

01:14:11.800 --> 01:14:14.066
in Philadelphia and
they were black

01:14:14.066 --> 01:14:15.666
reenactors lined up against the--

01:14:15.666 --> 01:14:16.099
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:]There were what?

01:14:16.100 --> 01:14:17.866
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:]
black reenactors--

01:14:17.866 --> 01:14:20.099
lined up against the
back wall in uniform.

01:14:20.100 --> 01:14:22.200
I better get this right.

01:14:22.200 --> 01:14:23.633
[Dr. Elizabeth Fee:] Thank you.

01:14:23.633 --> 01:14:26.099
[Dr. Margaret Humphreys:] Anatomy was important, right?

01:14:26.100 --> 01:14:28.133
[NLM seal 1836]