Readjusting with the Returning 
Servicemen 
Published by 
THE ILLINOIS SOCIETY 
FOR MENTAL HYGIENE 
1945 PROCEEDINGS OF THE INSTITUTE 
on 
READJUSTING WITH THE RETURNING SERVICEMEN 
HELD 
MARCH 8-9, 1945 
in 
THE KNICKERBOCKER HOTEL 
CHICAGO 
ILLINOIS 
Under the Auspices of the 
ILLINOIS SOCIETY FOR MENTAL HYGIENE 
343 South Dearborn Street 
Chicago 4, Illinois 
Copyright, 1945 by Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene CONTENTS 
Page 
Address op Welcome 
Ronald P. Boardman 1 
The Conference Theme 
Rudolph G. Novick, M.D 2 
He Takes Off His Uniform 
Col. William J. Bleckwenn, M.C 6 
Discussion: Dr. David Slight 14 
Emotional Attitudes op The Returned Veteran 
Lt. Comdr. Louis A. Schwartz, M.C., USNR 16 
Emotional Aspects op Educational Problems of The 
Returning Veteran 
Francis Rosecrance, Ph.D 21 
Discussion: Mrs. Ruth 0. McCarn 33 
The Emotional Aspects op Industrial and Employment 
Problems op The Returning Serviceman 
Harold C. Taylor : 35 
Discussion: Agnes A. Sharp, Ph.D 42 
Helping In The Readjustment of The Soldier and 
His Family 
Mrs. Marguerite G. Nordman 44 
Discussion: Therese Benedek, M.D 55 
The Rebirth of A Civilian 
George S. Stevenson, M.D 57 
Discussion: Maxwell Gitelson, M.D 67 
Round Tables: Emotional Aspects of Problems in: 
Industry 70 
Education 104 
Religion 131 Address of Welcome 
President, Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene 
RONALD P. BOARDMAN 
Good Morning, Everyone. 
As President of the Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene, it is my 
privilege to extend a hearty welcome to everyone of you who has 
come to our Two-Day Institute on “Readjusting with the Returning 
Servicemen. ’ ’ 
Several weeks ago, my mother invited me to visit her in Winter Park 
where she had taken a house for the season. Winter Park, as you 
know, is a Seat of Learning. It houses Rollins College. Mother wrote 
that there is a constant succession of noteworthy concerts, lectures and 
round tables and that I would enjoy the Pabulum spread before me. 
The program laid before you in this Two-Day Institute, I hope, will 
provide you with plenty of Pabulum !! Mental health requires food 
for the mind. 
Seriously, it is my sincere hope that from this series of talks by 
toppers in their particular field, you will gain some knowledge to 
help you in “Readjusting with the Returning Servicemen.” 
This title is most fitting and timely and is descriptive of the theme 
of the entire Institute. For it, we are indebted to Mr. Frank Loomis, 
Executive Secretary of the Chicago Community Trust, a close personal 
friend of mine and of many of you here. It was he who so helpfully 
suggested this title. It is he who is always a tower of strength, helping 
someone, somehow. In fact, it is his Community Trust, the Field 
Foundation, the Robert C. Wheeler Foundation, and some of our 
officers, directors and members who provided the wherewithal to make 
this Two-Day Institute possible, and to them we are deeply appre- 
ciative. 
Considerable extra thought, time, study and effort have been spent 
on planning this program to make it as all-inclusive as possible. There 
is a broad field to cover. Ours is a serious responsibility. We must 
rise to the occasion to meet the powerful demands created by this war. 
There are knotty problems to solve. 
The returning serviceman needs our help, our most thoughtful, 
penetrating, vigorous, selfless, careful help. 
We are justified in spending time on these problems set before us 
today and tomorrow. Perhaps from an exchange of thought on the 
subjects to be discussed on our round table program will pop many 
constructive ideas which we can pass on to others so they can aid, too. 
It will require the help of all of us. 
For two solid days, let’s focus all attention—all our thoughts on how 
we can best readjust with the returning serviceman to ease his home- 
coming and his homestaying. By the aid of this Institute, I pray God 
that we can promote discussion for better understanding of the 
problems. We must full face forward. 
“No retreat, no retreat; 
They must conquer or die 
Who have no retreat!” 
1 The Conference Theme 
Medical Director, Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene 
RUDOLPH G. NOVICK, M.D. 
At its last Annual Meeting, one year ago—almost to the very day— 
the Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene featured the problem of 
“Rehabilitation of the Psychiatrically Disabled.” Our guest speaker, 
Dr. Luther E. Woodward, indicated the need of psychiatric facilities 
for the care and treatment of men discharged for neuropsychiatric 
reasons and emphasized the fact that we must avoid ‘ ‘ the runaround ’ ’ 
for the veteran. He stated “we must keep our primary focus on 
services needed and carefully avoid promoting organizations at the 
veterans’ psychological expense. . . . We can admit to begin with 
that no state needs 25 organizations devoted to veterans’ interests. 
Neither are 25 or any other large number of organizations any sure 
guarantee that all legitimate needs will be met.”1 
Since then much has happened. The war has progressed favorably, 
and victory, at least in Europe, is promised for the not too distant 
future. At home, too, progress has been made. Some semblance of 
order has emerged from the chaos as far as our program for the 
returned servicemen is concerned. Legislatively and administratively, 
much has been accomplished both at a national and state level. Mus- 
tering out pay, insurance, compensation, pension, as well as educa- 
tional opportunity, vocational training, job priorities and medical 
and dental care have been provided. Informational centers, such as 
the one in Chicago, have been set up to eliminate, as mucli as possible, 
“the runaround,” and the mushrooming of organizations, which Dr. 
Woodward deplored, has largely been avoided. 
All of these provisions, however, deal only with the material 
aspects of the problem. Until recently, the emotional and psychologi- 
cal needs were given little or no attention. More recently, however, 
the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction. Newspaper articles, 
magazine stories, radio programs, movies and lecturers have focused 
their attention on problems psychological. The New Yorker of Feb- 
ruary 17th clearly described the present situation and says “Girls 
are receiving so many instructions about pulling a man through the 
post-war marital adjustment period that they are going to be some- 
thing of a domestic problem themselves. A man can endure plenty 
of things and can adjust to many situations, but he cannot endure 
being treated with studied intelligence by any other member of his 
household. A husband would rather be caught in the beam of an 
enemy searchlight than in the awful glare of an understanding 
woman.”2 
So much has been said and written about the neuropsychiatric dis- 
chargee that servicemen have expressed their resentment against such 
iWoodward, Luther E. “Rehabilitating the Psychiatrically Handicapped”, 
Mental Health Bulletin, Hlinois Society for Mental Hygiene, xxii: Special Issue, 
March 1944. 
2“Talk of the Town”, New Yorker, February 13, 1945, p. 13. 
2 publicity and their apprehension lest we—civilians—expect them all 
to return as psychoneurotics. In fairness to our men and women in 
the service and in keeping with the actual facts, I must say that the 
psychoneurotic dischargee has received attention and publicity all out 
of proportion to his numerical strength in comparison with the total 
number of men and women in the service. 
The danger which confronts us now parallels the one which Dr. 
Woodward cautioned us against last year—“promoting organizations 
at the veteran’s psychological expense.” Now the problem is even 
more serious. Not only are various organized groups rushing in to 
extend a helping hand, but even individuals are anxious to play the 
role of amateur psychologist or psychiatrist. I do not, for one moment, 
question the sincerity or honesty of these organizations or individuals. 
Their preparedness to do a constructive program is, however, open 
to question. Then, too, one might ask oneself “How will the return- 
ing serviceman react to his being treated as a guinea pig?” I do not 
mean to imply that all the knowledge rests with the psychologist, 
social worker or psychiatrist. It does not. I do not, for one minute, 
believe that all returned servicemen will require the services of any 
of these groups. The fact is that the majority will not. Many, if not 
most, will professionally never see the psychologist or psychiatrist, or 
visit any social agency. What I do want to point out is that it might 
be advisable to pause for a while and think this thing out. This is the 
purpose of this two-day Institute. 
The general theme of the Institute—readjustment from war to 
peace, must take into consideration the emotional as well as the physi- 
cal and material needs of the soldier and civilian; the conditioning 
of the civilian for the soldier’s return, and the renaturalization of the 
soldier—has been carefully and advisedly worded, phrased and 
arranged. The word “emotional” is italicized because the program 
committee, which planned this meeting and to whom I am most grate- 
ful for their conscientious efforts, was of the opinion that to provide 
physical resources for the restoration of the soldier, without consid- 
ering his emotional needs, was a job only half done. “The condition- 
ing of the civilian for the soldier’s return” was placed next because, 
in our opinion, it is next in importance; for to treat the servicemen 
and neglect to prepare the civilian environment for his reception is 
poor policy. As I have already said, there has been considerable com- 
ment—some good, some indifferent and some bad—regarding the serv- 
iceman’s condition upon his return. It is, therefore, up to us—all of 
us here—to correct this. To at least see that misinformation is not 
disseminated. In this connection we wish to especially emphasize the 
following facts: 
1. That the large majority of servicemen will return with no appa- 
rent physical or mental disabilities—so-called “normal” dischargees. 
Few of these are, as yet, back in this country. They are still on the 
fighting front and will remain there until victory is won. 
2. That even the so-called “normal” dischargee will or may have 
changed. War or no war the servicemen would have changed. The 
3 passage of time alone would have effected some changes. Prolonged 
separation from home—in peace or war—would have resulted in some 
changes. The war, however, has served to modify these changes. 
3. That not all changes in the servicemen are to be regretted or 
deplored. Some are to be welcomed, encouraged and further cultivated. 
Too much stress has, perhaps, been laid on the negative or destructive 
influences of war on personality, family and community organization, 
and too little on the constructive or positive aspects. While war is an 
exceedingly high price to pay for it, many of our servicemen will 
come back “the better men” for their experiences. They may, for 
example, have learned the value of teamwork, have realized the fact 
that personal gains and welfare must at times be subordinated to the 
welfare of the group, and have learned to take and give orders. Then, 
too, they have been exposed to strange experiences, have seen strange 
peoples and have visited strange countries. Their horizons have been 
broadened. May we not hope that as a result of this their racial and 
religious prejudices and nationalistic viewpoints may have been favor- 
ably modified? 
4. That “the term psychoneurotic, as a basis of discharge from the 
Armed Forces, amounts to nothing more nor less than saying that he 
(the soldier) did not have the personality traits which enabled him to 
become a satisfactory employee in the Armed Forces. ’n It is no more 
reasonable to assume that all men can become good soldiers than it is 
to assume that all can become good carpenters, draftsmen, lawyers 
or doctors. Some succeed in one field of endeavor and others in 
another. Failure in one does not necessarily imply failure in another. 
Failure as a soldier does not imply failure as a civilian. 
5. Psychoneurosis as a basis for discharge should not stigmatize 
an individual. It is not indicative of weakness or degeneracy. Any- 
one, regardless of his or her social, economic, or intellectual status 
may develop neurotic manifestations under the stress and strain 
of battle—provided the stress and strain is severe enough and long 
enough sustained. The “breaking point,” of course, varies from 
individual to individual. 
6. That the civilian, too, has changed. The civilian’s changes may 
differ in kind and degree from those of the servicemen, but change 
he has. 
7. That readjustment from war to peace is not only the responsi- 
bility of the solder but of the civilian as well. 
8. That readjustment will have to be faced in all aspects of life— 
in the home, the community, the church, the school, and the plant or 
office. 
In planning this Institute we have attempted to cover all of these 
aspects of the problem. Our guest speakers—all of whom I want to 
thank for their accepting our invitations despite their busy sched- 
ules—will, thus, discuss the psychological and emotional problems in 
ißurlingame, Charles C., M.D. “Clearing Up the PN Veteran Bogey,” address 
before National Association of Manufacturers, December 8, 1944, p. 6. 
4 these various aspects of readjustment. We do not claim that the 
Institute is all inclusive. There are other psychological problems of 
readjustment which need study, but time would not permit their 
consideration in a two-day session. 
Finally, we come to the last phase of the theme “the renaturaliza- 
tion of the soldier ” or as Dr. Stevenson has so aptly entitled it, ‘ ‘ The 
Rebirth of a Civilian.” We have placed this last not because it is 
the least important, but because of our desire to de-emphasize some 
of the stress and emphasize which has been placed on it. Because of 
your familiarity with this aspect of the problem, I will only state 
that we must remember that it has taken the government months to 
make a soldier out of a civilian and we cannot expect that we can 
reconvert a soldier to a civilian over night. When the soldier takes 
off his uniform, he does not become a civilian—at most—he becomes 
a veteran. 
In conclusion, I wish to state that this is your Institute. We hope 
to learn from you. Discussion from the floor will be welcomed. It is 
our sincere hope that from the knowledge and experience gained here 
we will be able to plan and organize a continuous lay educational 
program which will ease the problems of readjustment and narrow 
the gap between soldier and civilian. 
5 He Takes Off His Uniform 
Consultant in Neuropsychiatry, Headquarters, Sixth Service Command, Chicago, 111. 
COL. WILLIAM J. BLECKWENN, MC., 
This is the culmination of the two most important phrases on 
everybody’s tongue, everywhere. “The war is over!”—“he’s back 
home!” It establishes the specific date around which we all plan 
to rebuild our homes and happiness. It is the answer to our cherished 
hope and fervent prayer. The return of our men who fought to 
make this a better world to live in, for ourselves and for future 
generations. 
They weren’t looking for this fight, but they had to get into it 
because “neighbors” were challenging their right to live in peace 
and quiet. There are those who might choose to debate the wisdom 
of our entering this international struggle. Some of them are simply 
provincial, misguided, and misinformed individuals whose horizon 
is limited because of their circumscribed, egocentric existence. Others, 
better informed, but unfortunately more rabid and influential, have 
and always will decry our effort to help solve the problems of less 
powerful people and nations. Their smug complaisance and narrow 
isolationism, fortunately, have not been too well received or seriously 
considered by our people. We must sincerely hope that not too many 
of our people—for whom there will be no homecoming—shall feel 
bitterness and resentment over their loss of loved ones, to the point 
of losing sight of our goal, “making the world a safe place in which 
to live.” I wonder how much we are doing to help those, whose sons 
and daughters have been sacrificed, in bringing about that peace. 
We should pause in our drive to victory and assist those, who live 
on, in making their burden easier to bear. 
As the war reaches its successful conclusion we will find the malig- 
nant forces that were disturbing the tranquility of the world, crushed 
and destroyed, and the leaders of this global insurrection properly 
punished. Certainly, we have a right to expect that the sacrifices 
made by all will be rewarded by a prolonged peace and security and 
the prospect of an abundant happiness and opportunity. Unless we 
win that peace, our losses, our hardships, and our sacrifices will have 
been in vain. 
Let us turn back to the time when our men and women left the 
home to serve their country. A peace-loving nation surrendered its 
youth to the establishment of a powerful force to destroy world 
tyranny. Careers were interrupted. Into a hopper we poured school- 
boys, business and professional men, artisans, craftsmen and some 
with lesser accomplishments. The individual who had been free to 
work, play, and worship as he choose was soon to find that life in 
the armed forces was different. For the most part, he left a happy 
home where he was surrounded by the affection, regard, and under- 
standing, of a small group, all interested in helping him to establish 
himself in the community. He was free to go and do as he pleased, 
choose his companions, and determine the time for what he wanted 
to do. 
6 Suddenly, he found himself a small part of a highly organized 
and regimented order. His twenty-four hour day was completely 
organized and directed by this new order. A bugle, whistle, or bell 
made him jump out of or into bed with clocklike precision. His 
wakeful hours were conditioned to that signal. In the navy, with 
the exception of shore leave, he spent his life on a ship. In the army, 
his activities were confined primarily to his company area. There 
was no privacy. He ate, bathed, lived, and slept in a crowd. That 
group was not of his choice. His job was not of his choice. Some 
men had great difficulty in the transition from civilian to soldier. 
Some were totally unsuccessful. Some people simply cannot make 
the necessary changes or adjustments required to become capable 
soldiers or sailors. Nearly everyone requires considerable time before 
he can adjust himself to this regimentation. Those who had estab- 
lished individual behavior patterns which were either too meticulous 
and demanding, or were too dependant upon others for special care 
or consideration, found many obstacles to a successful military career. 
Taking orders was new to most of our younger generation. Some were 
unable to take orders from so many bosses. Resentment was felt. In 
civil life, if a fellow didn’t like the job or the boss, he could quit. 
In the service, it was “do, or else”—those who couldn’t adjust were 
released: those who wouldn’t try to adjust were punished. 
Time, fortunately, helped most of our youth adjust to military 
life so that by the time basic and advanced training had been accom- 
plished, they recognized the value of this new order. There was a 
progressive indoctrination of team-play and the effort to make the 
machine run smoothly stressed the importance of the individual’s 
part in that accomplishment. A fraternal life was established. Regi- 
mentation was now accepted. His unit became the best outfit in the 
service. The individual recognizes the feeling of combined strength, 
in play, in work, even if that work means killing. He had been taught 
how to kill and how to destroy the property of his fellow-man, he 
had been groomed for this job of death and destruction. 
Looking back just a few months, we find that a profound trans- 
formation has taken place in that high school lad from Kalamazoo, 
the bookmaker from Philadelphia, and the cow-hand from Texas. 
They have been welded together into an efficient machine. They 
believe in each other, in their ability to do a job—better than any 
other crowd—even if it means facing death. They learned new 
techniques and skills—they learned to submit to discipline. In this 
welding process, they established an esprit de corps which permitted 
them to face privation, discomfort, and personal insecurity with for- 
titude. A new philosophy had sprung up which cemented ties and 
bonds and a fraternity of mankind, greater than anything they had 
found in civil life outside of the family and home. The devotion to 
a just cause, with confidence in the ability and integrity in the men 
who lead them, and the knowledge that they were individually the 
best trained and equipped to play their parts in this group effort, 
is what produced the morale that has made our American fighting 
men superior to all. 
7 This was not an accident. Those militaristic nations who had 
pursued national regimentation for generations and where individual 
freedom and free enterprise had been submerged, were off to a better 
start when war broke out. Presumably, they were well-indoctrinated 
and more easily amenable to military regimentation. We had none 
of the fanatical hate or bitterness, nor the selfish desire for world 
conquest. Why then, could we develop in a few years our superior 
war machine? We did, however, have a country of people who had 
enjoyed the four freedoms of a democratic civilization. It was from 
that stock that we have manned our fighting forces. People who knew 
what it meant to be free and who were willing to fight to preserve 
that freedom and help the rest of the world obtain it. Our fighting 
men are fighting for world emancipation from tyranny and our home 
front is supporting that effort with the greatest output of materiel 
to prosecute that fight, the world has ever known. We, a peace-loving 
democracy, are now providing nearly all the material things for the 
destruction of the selfish, would-be conquerors, the bigoted zealots 
who would have destroyed our civilization. More than that, our 
young men are shedding their blood to help rid the world of those 
malignant forces. All this we do without thought of world conquest 
or material acquisition of land or political domination. We do this 
to make it possible for the rest of the world to share with us, that 
which we cherish—the right to live in peace and comfort, with the 
freedom to say and pray as we choose. 
What has this to do with our returning heroes ? Everything! They 
have earned the right to enjoy those freedoms for which they fought, 
suffered and sacrificed. To the memory of those who gave their lives 
to that end, we owe an undying pledge and determination that will 
achieve and then safeguard that peace and freedom for coming gen- 
erations. To those who return as casualties from this war, we owe 
a debt of gratitude that we can and must meet by preserving the 
peace and giving them an equal opportunity to share in the profits 
and rewards of free enterprise. Ours is a sacred trust, and to fail 
those who are making possible the continuation of our democratic 
way of life is to repudiate their effort and vitiate their sacrifice. 
Have our men and women changed, and will they be different 
when they return? Yes! Have we, too, changed in their eyes, and 
is there a mutual problem of readjustment? Yes, there is! What 
brought about these changes? 
My phase of this problem concerns the normal returning veteran. 
We have discussed the amalgamation of American youth into a great 
fighting machine. We saw the transformation of that youth into a 
regimented solidarity. We recognize that for several years their 
lives have been filled with excitement, adventure and world travel. 
Many of them spent weeks and months in active combat. They have 
lived in muddy or snow-filled fox holes, eating out of tin cans in 
tropical jungle or snow-covered frozen terrain, dodging enemy fire, 
from distant artillery, from the air, and from machine guns and 
snipers nearby. They have faced stark realism, miraculously escaped 
booby traps and land mines, engaged in hand to hand battle with 
8 desperate and cunning foe, witnessed scenes where pals were blown 
into bits, and endured that sickening smell of death. These memories 
leave indelible marks. Life assumes new values. Personal and social 
philosophies are much more realistic and fatalistic. This scene of 
wanton destruction, with the screaming of shells and the din of battle, 
is taking place in a different world, far removed from that corner 
drugstore or schoolroom. 
During these many months away from his home and loved ones, 
his thoughts have strayed back to that fireside or corner drugstore. 
Mail—all too infrequent and often delayed—has kept him posted; at 
least, concerning the well-being of those who interest him most. And 
yet, he wonders how the folks at home can complain about gas and 
food rationing, increased taxes, longer hours, midnight curfews on 
amusements, etc. If the home front would accept and applaud these 
curtailments, the morale of our men, fighting in muck and mire, 
would rise to greater heights. News and radio accounts of strikes, 
black markets, draft evasion, deferment scandals, or pressure to pro- 
vide special favor for certain economic or social groups, and talk 
of a compromise peace are not conducive to a healthy perspective for 
a man sweating out his turn on a battle field. Daily accounts of neg- 
lect of small children by delinquent soldier-wives who prefer night 
life to the privilege of caring for them, does not boost the morale 
of our fighting forces. Our men would like to believe that all of us 
at home are behind them trying to expedite the war in an all out 
effort. They cannot understand, and are extremely critical of all who 
impede this effort or fail to play their part in making personal sacri- 
fices to provide more for those who fight. They are looking with 
disgust upon those at home who are guilty of those things and are 
openly and properly critical. 
Let us look at these men coming back. For the older man, it will 
truly be a homecoming. He had established himself in the community, 
probably had a family and can look forward to taking his old place 
as the head of the family. He enjoys the prospect of his former job 
with accrued seniority and increased salary which was declared for 
that position in his absence, depending upon the age of his children, 
and the length of his absence, he will have emotional problems within 
his home that may be difficult of solution. Several years of life in 
camp and combat without female companionship, or bickering fussing 
children, make it quite difficult for him to resume the role of husband 
and father. He will find his wife has assumed a dual role in home 
management. She may also have obligated herself with work or 
duties outside the home. For the most part, I feel certain the average 
wife will most willingly resume her former position in the family 
circle. It is important that she not seek to relinquish this role imme- 
diately upon her husband’s return. He must learn how to live as a 
civilian. He is out of practice in handling family problems. His 
recent life has been one of punctuality, precision, orderliness and 
discipline. He will be annoyed over the absence of these attributes 
and will find difficulty disguising his irritability. If the children 
were five or six years of age when he left, he will find them grown 
9 up beyond his expectations and he will be quite a stranger to them. 
He will have to try to learn how to laugh and play with them, and 
gradually take over the matter of discipline and other duties incum- 
bent upon him. 
If his youngsters were infants when he went away, his task will 
be even more difficult. He may be too demanding of his wife’s time 
and show her so much attention that the child will resent his intru- 
sion. I know of several instances where such children have begged 
the mother, “Mommy, send that man away.” He was looked upon 
as a usurper, and dilutes, to a point of jealous hatred, the attention 
the child thought should be his. This is a difficult situation that 
requires all of the tact and diplomacy in the world on the part of 
both parents, and may be one of the trying experiences in the home- 
coming. The wife must be most careful. She has grown up with the 
youngster and must deal gently with these untoward reactions, and 
at the same time reconcile her husband to their joint problem. Happy 
is the woman who had talked constantly of “Daddy, and his return”, 
and prepared the youngster for this “intrusion.” 
Then we have the younger chap who married just before entering 
service. He may never have seen his baby and his problem is there- 
fore more acute. He never had the opportunity of sharing the 
important phase of the pregnancy with his wife. He has never 
experienced the paternal sense which develops during the pregnancy 
and progressively thereafter. The two to four year old will particu- 
larly resent intrusion. A barrier may be established if both husband 
and wife fail to exercise mature judgment, and help the child to 
accept this new person in its little world. 
Domestic problems for the war-time newlyweds will be even more 
complex.' Many will experience a belated honeymoon. During the 
short courtship and hasty marriage, they never had a chance to 
really become acquainted. The years of separation have made it 
necessary for both to reminisce and imagine what each was like while 
they were separated. Invariably, those who idealized each other created 
imaginary beings without faults and all of the virtues—the dream 
boy and girl! That image may be shattered soon after the reunion. 
The man may have matured far beyond the girl he left behind. She 
may seem silly and superficial, selfish, and of the “small town type.” 
He, on the other hand, may be restless and irritable, bored with the 
monotony of evenings at home or narrow restricted circles of friends. 
He yearns for the out-of-doors, the fraternity of men in barracks 
or post exchanges. The young wife must learn very, early, that she 
must accept these moods, encourage his contact with others, suggest 
meeting the boys and even invite stag parties at home. These things 
were all planned for him in the army. He misses that companionship 
more than he realizes. He feels the need of talking to someone who 
understands his language. He resents the apathy and apparent lack 
of interest in the war effort. He resents disparaging remarks about 
the progress of the war. He has a chip on his shoulder. If the wife 
doesn’t realize that she has a man who must learn to be a civilian 
and help him get back to that level emotionally—there is trouble 
10 ahead. The young husband has many other worries confronting him— 
job and future, the establishment of economic security and the build- 
ing of a home. He has to tackle all of these problems in time, and 
an understanding wife is essential to the success of these ventures. 
We then have the largest group of young men who will have serious 
adjustments to make. These young men just out of school or who 
had not established themselves in the community will not return to 
their pre-war inexperienced level. The families will be called upon 
to meet these problems very early. A lack of sympathetic understand- 
ing, appreciation and careful planning to meet this critical situation 
may cause serious complications. Many of them are coming back, 
mature men, who have aged more than their physical years. They 
will have all of the emotional hurdles to meet that have been previ- 
ously described. They will have, in addition, serious questions that 
must be answered such as “what is my future?” “What kind of a 
job can I get?” 
The younger man who grew up in the service has been living on 
a plane of importance. He has occupied a position of trust and 
responsibility. We must find a similar place for him in civilian life. 
We can’t expect this man to “step down” to a menial job. He must 
be considered important in our community and needed in our social 
system. He claims no special privilege but must be made to feel that 
he is needed at home and given the sense of social and economic 
security. We hear about all the things that are planned for returning 
servicemen. During the “hero-worship phase”, much will be done. 
It is most important that our home front realize that a handout, 
charity, or pension, is not the answer to the ex-serviceman’s security. 
Disability awards and pensions foster dependency and insecurity. 
The old job will not be sufficient for many of our returnees. Special 
training in the armed forces has equipped many of these men for 
bigger and better jobs. To maintain his self-respect and feeling of 
having been appreciated and that his sacrifice has been worthwhile, 
our boy has a right to expect a job commensurate with his acquired 
ability. 
The major portion of this responsibility will rest on civilian 
shoulders. Those who expect government to be solely responsible for 
post-war job placement, lost sight of what government is now doing— 
prosecuting a global war to a successful conclusion and supplying 
that world with the materiel toward that end. Most communities 
have completed their plans to absorb our boy upon his return. This 
is as it should be. He fought to protect that community. Jobs must 
and will be found. Specific job possibilities and the requirements of 
employers must be carefully analyzed and classified so that Joe Smith 
can be fitted to a specific job, like a pair of shoes. Finding the right 
job, without long discouraging search, will boost his morale. The 
sooner he again contributes to our national production and gets his 
just share of the profit derived from that effort, the sooner he becomes 
re-established as a civilian and makes a healthy emotional adjustment. 
One important contribution to our boy is to stop thinking of him as 
11 a veteran, stop treating him as a veteran, and help him to become 
a good citizen again. It is most important that we help him make 
this transformation promptly. He deserves a warm welcome and 
will appreciate the honor and respect demonstrated by the community 
and friends in the planned receptions, but he will welcome most of 
all in his homecoming, a display of real interest in helping him get 
back to a normal and healthy life in the community. 
At least ten percent of our men will want more education. Educa- 
tional institutions must be ready to absorb these men, and again, it 
would seem preferable that they be absorbed rather than added to 
our educational problem as a separate group. Despite the difference 
in ages, it appears that a more wholesome emotional adjustment would 
be made if they participate with the other students in our academic 
program and life. 
Approximately 15 to 20% of our returnees will plan to establish 
themselves in private ventures, either in the operation of their own 
business or farm. Probably an equal number lean toward similar 
ventures. This group will require assistance in establishing themselves 
in such efforts with expert advice and financial backing at the start. 
Federal and local assistance will be available. 
That leaves approximately 50% of our returnees who will gravitate 
toward established industries and business. The success with which 
these men are absorbed is dependent upon business and industry. 
Personnel consultants, preferably men with army background or 
experience, will become an important addition in those industries 
where they have not previously been employed. The personnel expert 
with military experience brings more than the “know how” of the 
ex-servicemen to industry. He will help to organize the recreational, 
educational and health programs of the entire personnel. The ex- 
serviceman appreciates how important these phases of his life have 
been while in service, and will welcome continuation of these desir- 
able features at a civilian level. 
Our boys are interested in physical and mental hygiene. They 
have developed a much greater horizon and are interested in national 
and world affairs. They are vitally interested in the achievement of 
a permanent peace and will only favor such a program as will require 
our participation in a plan to secure that peace for all people every- 
where. They have deflated snobbery and have established friendships 
with men from all walks of life. They are less selfish and more civic- 
minded. They understand group effort in accomplishing an objective. 
These are some of their accomplishments as the result of service. 
To summarize briefly, we can expect our men and women to face 
problems of emotional and economic adjustment upon separation 
from the service. How well and how rapidly they accomplish this 
will depend upon how much we help them in that adjustment. A 
cheerful greeting and a well-chosen job will help most to re-establish 
them as good productive citizens. The gruesome effects of war on 
family relationship has been exaggerated by many writers. Our 
country has been through several wars, the world has been at war 
12 for thousands of years, and the institutions of home and family have 
not only survived, but thrived in spite of these adversities. “Atheism 
was never bred in foxholes” and many men will return with more 
rather than less religion, with a better philosophy of broader applica- 
tion, with a greater appreciation of our democratic way of life. They 
fought to preserve it—they deserve to enjoy it. Let us show them 
that democracy works! 
13 Discussion of Colonel Bleckwenn’s Paper 
Medical Director, Division of Psychiatry, University of Chicago 
DR. DAVID SLIGHT 
Colonel Bleckwenn has given an excellent statement of the per- 
sonality changes in the individual coincident to the training and regi- 
mentation necessary for him to become a member of an efficient 
fighting machine. In some cases the personality has become more 
mature, but in many of the older men at least, the effort involved 
and the self-sacrifice necessary to acquire and accept new habits 
and attitudes has been great. But, the speaker has reminded us that 
not only the returning serviceman but also the civilian has changed 
in some degree and that the post-war adjustment will be a mutual 
problem. 
In this connection, a disturbing matter has been raised that should 
be more freely ventilated than it has been, namely, the rift that has 
developed between some men in the services and part of the civilian 
community resulting from the apparent lack of sense of duty and 
willingness to cooperate in the war effort on the part of those civilians. 
There are appalling prospects of later strife and dissension if those 
reactions secure further stimulus and justification. The imposition 
of further restrictions and limitations on the civilian population, 
which will be necessary soon for economic and other reasons, may 
rectify some of the reactions mentioned, and they might well have 
been imposed a long time ago for this particular reason alone. 
The speaker has outlined for us some of the problems that will 
confront the various age-groups of veterans: the older man, head 
of his family; the younger man with small children; the young man 
who married just before going into the services, or since then, who 
may never have seen his infant child; the newly-wed veteran who 
may never have had a honeymoon; and lastly, the lad who left school 
to enter the services. As we review the groups in this order, we find 
they are likely to have developed less in the way of organized and 
established modes of life to which they can return. The last group, 
the young men who came from high school or had just started college, 
3,000,000 or so in number, presents one of the most difficult problems. 
Their problems will of course become the more difficult the longer 
the war may continue. We should spend much time and effort in 
establishing methods to ensure their readjustment and resettlement, 
for they are the prospective heads of the families of tomorrow. 
The success of the post-war adjustment plans will obviously be 
dependent in large measure on the provision of adequate opportuni- 
ties for employment. The disabled merit pensions in keeping with 
their handicaps, but as Colonel Bleckwenn puts it: “ . . . disability 
awards and pensions may foster dependency and insecurity.” This 
applies particularly to veterans with psychiatric disorders that may 
have led to their separation from the services. Certainly, pensioning 
is an inadequate solution for the minor forms of such disorders, the 
psychoneuroses, and we may repeat here a phrase used in another 
presentation: “pensions penalize psychoneuroses.” The necessity for 
14 a prolonged period of good employment opportunities is indeed 
important for, to judge from past experience, floods of new claims 
for pensions can be expected in periods of economic depression from 
the emotionally vulnerable, who may be capable of adequate self- 
support and good adjustment provided they have fair opportunities 
to work and secure an adequate living. 
Many men in service have already indicated a desire to seek a new 
occupation on their discharge. They will require vocational counsel- 
ing, for which we are not fully prepared as yet, i.e., in proportion 
to the prospective demands. Colonel Bleckwenn has well emphasized 
the necessity for doing everything possible to help the veteran find 
the occupation for which he is best suited without delay, so that he 
can be re-established as a civilian as quickly as possible. A striking 
sentence is worthy of quotation here: “One important contribution 
to our boy is to stop thinking of him as a veteran, stop treating him 
as a veteran and help him to become a good citizen again.” 
Colonel Bleckwenn has touched on other topics that will be dis- 
cussed in other sessions of the Institute, such as the question of 
veterans who desire further education and training, and the problem 
of those who wish to engage in private ventures. It is fortunate 
that the machinery for meeting the needs of these two groups is rela- 
tively well developed now, and should be thoroughly effective before 
any large scale demobilization takes place. 
It was good to hear Colonel Bleckwenn remind us that many 
returning veterans will have benefited from their training and 
experiences and will have developed qualities of character that will 
enable them to make valuable contributions to the civilian community. 
He has given us a simple formula for the success of our plans, a 
formula as valuable as it is brief and simple: “A cheerful greeting 
and a well chosen job will help most to re-establish them as good 
productive citizens.” 
] 5 Emotional Attitudes of the Returned Veteran^ 
Chief of Neuropsychiatric Service, U. S. Naval Hospital, Great Lakes, Illinois 
LT. COMDR. LOUIS A. SCHWARTZ, MC, USNR 
Combat fatigue in general is a curable condition of fear and exhaus- 
tion precipitated by combat in one who heretofore had a stable per- 
sonality. Following an intense combat experience, psychoneurotic 
symptoms occur in a high percentage of the participants, men who 
are well within the limits of a normal personality. It is a funda- 
mental of psychological thinking when a high percentage of normal 
people react similarly to a circumstance, the reaction must be con- 
sidered normal. The apparently abnormal condition of combat fatigue 
must, therefore, be considered a normal physiologic response. Normally 
men cast off their fear as soon as the reason for it disappears. The 
men who break down with combat fatigue have been “saving up 
their fear”. They have unconsciously been carrying around large 
volumes of unexpressed fear, and they always show signs of increased 
tension for sometime before they actually break. 
Four reasons for fear appear singly or grouped in the case history 
of the man with combat fatigue; first, he may have entered combat 
without faith and confidence in himself or his leaders, second, he 
may have been insufficiently trained, thirdly, he may have entered 
combat surrounded by cocombatants of whose ability he was dubious, 
fourthly, he experienced the combat situation when he was suffering 
with marked physical fatigue. We are not prepared to say just why 
these factors produce symptoms. Complete analysis of a number of 
cases would undoubtedly reveal certain fundamental psychological 
mechanisms through which the symptoms are produced. Any such 
psychological mechanisms as exist are common to a great majority 
of men, their eradication is impossible, and their importance can be 
minimized in the prevention and treatment of combat fatigue. 
The preventive measures are clearly indicated from the factors 
mentioned. Little depends on the medical officer. All men placed in 
a position of even small responsibility should be carefully scrutinized 
in regard to their fitness. Men need thorough training and indoc- 
trination in all aspects of their duties before engaging in actual 
combat. Any method of increasing training greatly increases the effec- 
tiveness in combat. Nowhere more than in the psychiatric casualties 
of war is it demonstrated that knowledge helps to banish fear. It goes 
without saying that fatigue should be avoided. Unfortunately, this 
extremely important point is usually beyond human control. In this 
war men are pushed to the very limits of their physical tolerance 
and sometimes beyond it. 
The global nature of the present conflict imposes the burden of 
war on civilian and military population alike. Great dislocations and 
adjustments have been necessary for most civilians, heightening the 
*The opinions and assertions in this paper are those of the author, and should 
not be construed to reflect the policy of procedure of the Navy Department. For 
reasons of security, no statistics or numbers of neuropsychiatric casualties are 
mentioned. 
16 normal state of tension. Morale, which reflects this state positively 
or negatively, has a direct bearing upon the attitude of military per- 
sonnel. Combatants have two burdens to bear,—their immediate 
personal danger, and their concern over affairs back home. Too fre- 
quent is the example of the serviceman who bears up well under 
combat only to have his stable adjustment undermined by the seepage 
of poor morale from home. 
The most characteristic symptom of combat fatigue is the repiti- 
tious catastrophic nightmare. Without it, this diagnosis is question- 
able. The nightmare usually reenacts all or part of the precipitating 
scene. The effect of fear persists even after awakening. The dreamer 
feels compelled to leave his bed, walk around, or seek human compan- 
ionship. In an adult, this combination of events is rarely met except 
in combat fatigue. 
The startled reaction is almost as constant a symptom as the night- 
mare. Sudden loud noises, by day or by night, startle the victim of 
combat fatigue. This is followed by- such normal evidence of fear 
as tremors, dilated pupils, sweating, dry mouth, flushing or pallor, 
and palpitation. Often in the more acute stages, the startle reaction 
turns into actual panic. The victim runs for the nearest exit, screams 
hysterically, upsets nearby furniture, or stands transfixed laughing 
and crying uncontrollably. 
The above symptoms are accompanied by a subtle personality 
change. The patient becomes morose, sullen, irritable, reticent, intol- 
erant of noise or argument. He may have a peculiar staring expres- 
sion. He commonly resorts to alcohol as a relief from the psychic 
torture he endures. He may become a disciplinary problem because 
of his neurotic symptoms. 
Another extremely common symptom is the guilt reaction. It usu- 
ally arrives from a strategic situation such as one where a group 
of men is trapped in a spot from which only a few can escape. Regard- 
less of the circumstances of survival, many of those who escape are 
haunted by the memory of the ones left behind. They are tortured 
by a sense of guilt and its consequent mood of depression. They pro- 
test that nothing could have been done by anybody for those who were 
lost, and carefully tell of their own efforts to save others. The patient 
suffering with combat fatigue does not discuss his combat experience 
with equanimity. He sweats, he trembles, he flushes or pales, he 
swallows frequently, and he smokes incessantly. No malingerer can 
successfully imitate the delicate timing of the physiological effects 
of fear. 
The cure of the patient with combat fatigue is relatively simple 
and quite effective when carried out by trained personnel. When 
symptoms persist in disabling degree following two months or more 
of management, either the treatment is not adequate, or the psycho- 
neurosis is not simple combat fatigue. Speed of recovery is decreased 
in direct proportion to the length of time which elapses between 
the onset of symptoms and the beginning of treatment. The first step 
is rest obtained by the free use of sedatives. Thus, it is possible to 
17 start relieving the patient immediately after diagnosis of his condi- 
tion, long before a hospital is reached. If properly handled at this 
time, many patients may never require hospitalization. 
Kegardless of the improvement obtained by rest, the emotional 
desensitization of the patient to the combat experience should be 
begun immediately thereafter. The further from the line of duty 
the patient moves, the more difficult it becomes therapeutically to 
return him to combat duty. Following rest, each patient should be 
allowed to tell his story at least once to the medical officer. The 
elements in the story which are most disturbing to the patient should 
be noted. It is urgently necessary that patients who suffer with the 
fully developed characteristics of combat fatigue be given a certain 
period of time to digest the emotional turmoil of one traumatic experi- 
ence before they are exposed to another. This is best accomplished 
in a center where directed recreation and physical work are available. 
All symptoms are liable to aggravation in the presence of loved ones, 
friends, relatives, spouse, and family. The over protected, emotion- 
ally charged atmosphere of their homes is most unsuitable for these 
men. No leave should be permitted any man who suffers with the 
symptoms of nightmare, startle reactions, and personality change. 
Patients with combat fatigue respond best to group psychotherapy. 
This is a new and most satisfactory method of treatment evolved to 
serve wartime demands. In essence it is the treatment and rehabilita- 
tion of the patient in groups rather than individually. Active par- 
ticipation is its main theme. Group psychotherapy involves the 
cooperative responsibility of a therapeutic team for twenty-four hours 
daily. The occupational therapist, physical instructor, recreational 
and educational officers, chaplain, nurse, physiotherapist, hospital 
corpsman, and psychiatrist combine their efforts in order to integrate 
the patient’s daily activities. In this way the flagging interests, 
devitalized energies, and salvageable propensities of each patient can 
be utilized to bring about rehabilitation. 
The hospital environment provides a medium of mutual protec- 
tion and common interest against what patients too often feel to be 
an alien or unsympathetic world. The patient lives constantly in a 
select group where he feels he is understood. He shares his experi- 
ences with shipmates who “speak the same language”. 
Most encouraging is the use of sound movies in the deconditioning 
process of combat experience. These people are extremely sensitive 
to war movies reproducing battle scenes and sounds. This sensitivity 
can be used in differential diagnosis of combat fatigue, and as evi- 
dence of recovery from it. By recovery we mean the disappearance 
of nightmares, startle reaction, and the symptoms of personality 
change. Finally, when such a patient can sit through actual combat 
scenes in the movie without feeling anxiety or tension, without having 
to leave, without feeling unduly restless, without feeling depressed 
afterwards, and without resultant dreams, he may be considered fully 
recovered from his combat fatigue. This testing must be used care- 
fully as the sensitivity to movies persists long after all other symp- 
toms have subsided. 
18 Many men are discharged to home with neuropsychiatric disabili- 
ties. They display considerable hostility and bitterness in their atti- 
tude. Many show ambivalent feelings followed by a reaction of guilt. 
Dormant underlying emotional factors within the family milieu 
become emphasized—undercurrent and latent factors which become 
fixed. If these men should receive a pension, the payment for dis- 
ability too frequently removes the incentive to recover. If the man 
gets well, the pension stops. Compensation should not constitute a 
reward for disability. 
We must begin to face the problems of demobilization now. The 
adjustment of every veteran is basically a social one. He must read- 
just himself to his own civilian status and that of other civilians. 
He must reorient himself to habits, outlooks, attitudes, and employ- 
ment. He must learn to make decisions and regulate his own routine. 
The idealism which he conjured up in his mind about home while 
at the front may be out of harmony with the reality he finds upon 
his return. Life at home may seem dull and uneventful. Some of 
these men are discordant with life, are irritable, and resent ques- 
tioning on their experiences. Some find it difficult to concentrate or 
relax. They have a sense of failure. The degree of social adjust- 
ment depends largely on the understanding they receive among 
civilians, and on the attitude of the family. Industry, educational 
and social institutions, and community organizations must integrate 
their efforts to effect the readjustment of the veteran. Many veterans 
do make a spontaneous civilian readjustment. Their previously demon- 
strated capacity to accept changing events with equanimity assures 
them a satisfactory post war adjustment. 
The satisfactory readjustment to family life involves tact, under- 
standing, naturalness and patience. Full and satisfactory employment 
and congenial working relationships are paramount. Schools and 
colleges must adjust the curricula to suit the interests, the practical 
thinking, and the speed of learning of the returned veteran. Coun- 
seling service dealing with family, economic, health, and employment 
problems should be available. 
A large number of men will not wish to return to their previous 
homes. They have been accustomed to travel and found other com- 
munities and climates more to their liking. Better provisions must 
be made for the migratory worker and his family. Schools and all 
the facilities necessary for adequate family life will have to be con- 
structed in view of the migratory tendency which has developed. 
Group psychotherapy is suggested as a practical method for the 
treatment of the ever increasing number of combat fatigue cases. 
With the inevitable high incidence of neuropsychiatrie disabilities in 
the post war world, this method can be utilized for the treatment 
of selected cases in mobile psychotherapeutic centers. The period of 
treatment is relatively short. Such centers would eliminate the build- 
ing of tremendous Veterans’ Facilities with men remaining away 
from their homes and jobs indefinitely. The lack of sufficient number 
of qualified psychiatrists to deal with individual cases requires the 
expediency of group technique. The growing understanding of social, 
19 cultural, and economic factors in the production of psychiatric dis- 
abilities, particularly those connected with war, makes such group 
technique possible where emphasis is less upon the individual person- 
ality factors. This type of treatment can conceivably include cases of 
civilian war neurosis as well as those occurring in the armed forces. 
Neuroses caused by separation from loved ones, deprivation, eco- 
nomic changes, lost civilian individuality, new forms of discipline 
and restriction, interruptions in studies, trades or professions, unrest 
resultant of rumors, demobilization, defeatism and confusion lend 
themselves particularly to the influence of group psychotherapy. 
Such a program has obvious economic value in a planned rehabilita- 
tion effort. 
This war has taught that mental disease can be recognized early, 
that there are specific methods of management for it, that every 
medical problem has a psychological accompaniment, and that nobody 
is free in any illness from related psychological disorder. Having 
become conscious of the problems in the reorientation of veterans to 
civilian life, we must become self-directive. It is apparent that this 
rehabilitation can not be the effort of the Veterans’ Bureau alone. 
It is only by the integrated efforts of all the institutions of civil life;— 
economic, educational, social and cultural, that we can effect a rehabili- 
tation of the veteran so that he may take his place in our post war 
society. 
Eeferences: 
1. Raines, George N. and Kolb, Lawrence C., Combat Fatigue and War Neurosis, 
U. S. Nav. M. Bull. Vol. XLI, No. 4, 917-23, July 1943. 
2. Ibid:—Combat Fatigue and War Neurosis (concluded), Vol. XLI, No. 5, 
1296-1299, Sept. 1943. 
3. Kennedy, W. F., N.P., Problems as They Occur in Naval Warfare, Diseases of 
Nervous System, Vol. VI, No. 2, 48-50, Feb. 1945. 
4. Woodward, Luther E., Social Readjustment of Returning Veterans, Process- 
ing of Institute of Medicine of Chicago, Vol. 15, No. 10, 227-232, Jan. 15, 1945. 
5. Schwartz, Louis A., Group Psychotherapy in the War Neurosis, Amer. Jour, 
of Psychiatry, Vol. 101, No. 4, 498-500, Jan. 1945. 
20 Emotional Aspects of Educational Problems of the 
Returning Veteran 
FRANCIS ROSECRANCE, Ph.D. 
At the outset I should make clear that I speak with no authority. 
I have served as a consultant for the War Department in Washington, 
but I am not authorized to speak for it. I have counseled some vet- 
erans on our campus at Northwestern University, but I am not author- 
ized to speak for it. I am not a psychiatrist; I am an educator. 
These are the colors under which I sail at this meeting. 
Professor of Education, Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois 
The most recent bulletin of the American Council on Education is 
devoted to the education of veterans. It states: “Never before have 
schools and colleges been given so great an opportunity and so great 
a challenge.” It is this opportunity and challenge that I wish to 
consider with you during the next few minutes. I propose first, to 
give a very brief background of the educational aspects of readjust- 
ing with the veteran; second, to report some tentative findings of a 
study of what is actually being done for the veteran in higher educa- 
tional institutions; and third, to offer for your consideration a 
minimum program that colleges ought to provide returning service 
people and ex-war workers, men and women. 
Almost everyone knows that two legislative acts passed by the 78th 
Congress constitute the foundation for government aid in the educa- 
tion of the returning serviceman. They are known as Public Laws 
16 and 346, the latter being more commonly referred to as the G. I. 
Bill of Rights. Public Law 16 applies to veterans who can show that 
they have a 10 per cent or more handicap because of wounds or 
other injury incurred in line of duty. Under this law the government 
will pay their entire tuition, fees, books, supplies, etc., up to $5OO 
per nine months’ session. In addition, each veteran will receive com- 
pensation of $BO per month or more, depending upon the seriousness 
of his disabilities. The veteran may select the vocation he wishes to 
train for and the institution in which to take the training. The only 
limitations are that the serviceman be prepared for the program he 
wishes to undertake and that he be admitted to the institution he 
desires to enter. 
Public Law 346 applies to all those who have been in the service 
ninety days or longer, exclusive of the time spent in the army or 
navy college training program. Ninety days’ service and discharge 
papers other than dishonorable entitle the veteran to a year of train- 
ing. A veteran of one year’s service is entitled to two years of train- 
ing; one of two years’ service is entitled to three years of training, 
one of three years ’ service to four years of training, which is the 
maximum allowed. The government will pay for tuition, fees, books, 
supplies, etc. up to SSOO for a nine months’ session, plus SSO per 
month if the veteran is without dependents or $75 per month if he 
has one or more dependents. The individual is free to choose the 
location in which he will take his training, what he wants to train 
for, and to select the institution he wishes to attend. The institution 
21 is free to accept or reject students, to set up or not to set up special 
curricula, and to dismiss those who do not meet standards prescribed. 
These two bills will make it possible and possibly attractive for 
thousands of young men and women to receive more education than 
they ever anticipated. While we do not now have estimates of the 
numbers of Wacs, Waves, and Spars who will wish to take advantage 
of these opportunities, we do have some estimates for men, based on 
a 20,000 sampling of white enlisted men. The previous educational 
experience of the serviceman, the availability of accurate information 
about benefits under the bills mentioned, and the employment situa- 
tion at the time of his discharge will all have a bearing on the numbers 
who actually go on to school. Using Army surveys the American 
Council on Education1 believes that the following figures err on the 
side of conservatism rather than on the side of too large numbers. 
The Council estimates that 30,000 of the 700,000 Negro enlisted men 
will plan to return to full-time school. 460,000 white men who have 
had less than a complete high school education desire full-time school- 
ing, and a million more want part-time education. 452,840 service- 
men definitely plan to go to college full time, with 194,570 having 
tentative plans to do so. 286,180 plan to attend college part time. 
These figures suggest the possibility that more than 900,000 men will 
be interested in obtaining a college education, while a total of 2,390,- 
000 servicemen are likely to want some kind of education. Such large 
numbers of men pose many problems for educators: the overcrowding 
of facilities, dormitories, classrooms, laboratories, and libraries; the 
need of a much larger staff to care for the increased enrollment; and 
the need for supplemental financing by local and state governments 
since federal allotments will not fully meet the cost of instruction. 
These problems lie outside the title of this paper. Here we wish to 
consider the less tangible but just as important educational problems 
facing education. 
The investigation that I am about to report does not claim to be 
exhaustive or intensive. It is more subjective than it is objective; it 
reflects personal judgment, but judgment based on current practice 
in public and private institutions of higher learning in the United 
States. Since it was believed that between now and the end of the 
war, the number of veterans returning to colleges and universities 
will be relatively small and will be concentrated primarily in the 
larger universities, a personal letter containing seven questions was 
sent to the presidents of all but two member institutions of the Ameri- 
can Association of Universities. Several other institutions were added 
to this list because of their strategic location and distinctive charac- 
ter. All in all it may be said that the present study is based on 
returns received from some of the largest and most distinguished 
institutions of higher learning in this country, scattered over eighteen 
states. 
To date replies have been received from twenty-six, well over half 
of the entire list. On the average 250 veterans were on the campuses 
l , “Education of Veterans Under Public Law 346,” Bulletin 
No. 78, Feb. 26, 1945. American Council on Education, Washington, D. C. 
22 of these institutions, although the range was from less than 100 to 
over a thousand. More than half of these large institutions had 
already set up some special committee, appointed a coordinator, 
board, or counselor to work with the veterans. One of these writes: 
The good and right kind of manpower needed for the 
proper handling of returning veterans is a serious problem. 
Our University is committed to the principle of trying to deal 
with these people as individuals. With all the red tape neces- 
sary for the operation of Public Law 16 and 346 and to handle 
the cases from an individual point of view, our University will 
have to expand very materially its Office of Veteran Affairs 
as the larger number comes. 
The institution which that writer serves now has 325 veterans. When 
the “numbers come” that are forecast by the American Council on 
Education, not only his University but every university and college 
will need adequate manpower for handling the returning veteran. 
What are the problems of those who seek further education ? Appar- 
ently in the institutions surveyed, the first question which concerns 
veterans is whether they should go on to school now or seek employ- 
ment. A second question is how to discover in just what fields they 
should secure training. A third problem of those who seek further 
education is one of finances. Some married veterans are taking only 
part-time work along special lines in which they are interested and 
are working outside, because they feel they cannot financially afford 
to give up work and devote themselves wholly to study. 
Who should be responsible for educating the veteran who did not 
complete high school? It will be recalled that it was estimated that 
460,000 servicemen who have had less than a complete high school 
education desire full-time schooling. Who will provide it? Some of 
you will have read The Saturday Evening Post article describing 
the experiences of the ex-marine who actually did return to high 
school. Veteran coordinators state that very few veterans who did 
not finish high school wish to return to high school. They no longer 
feel at home with high school youngsters. They want to get to college 
as soon as possible. In the study which forms the basis for this 
paper, only nine of the college officers representing the twenty-six 
institutions expressed an opinion as to whose responsibility it was 
to provide an education for men whose secondary education was 
interrupted by the war. Three of these did not feel that the college 
had any special responsibility in this regard; one felt that needed high 
school work might be obtained at night school. Six felt that colleges 
should offer sub-college work in such subjects as English, mathe- 
matics, chemistry, and physics. As an example of the latter view I 
quote the following excerpt from a letter; 
... we believe that the University should offer sub-college 
curricula for those whose education has been interrupted at 
the secondary level. ... so far we have planned about 
twenty sub-college courses, four of which are in operation. 
23 Alternate plans for meeting the needs of this group of servicemen 
are to be found in Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, and Pennsylvania. 
In Wisconsin veterans attend the Wisconsin System of Adult and 
Vocational Education. At Michigan State College a Servicemen’s 
Institute has been established which serves as a sort of serviceman’s 
academy. In New York local boards of education are setting up 
People’s Colleges, while the state is establishing twenty technical 
institutes for trade training. In Pittsburgh a school building next 
to a technical high school has been set aside for the education of 
returning servicemen. This building is to be used in the morning for 
academic work, while the shops of the technical high school are avail- 
able to the veterans in the afternoon. It will be recognized that these 
alternatives are feasible in large population centers. For men living 
outside such areas it would appear that colleges must consider giving 
sub-college work. 
In this connection it may be well to bear in mind the opinions of 
748 men who responded to a University of Colorado inquiry asking 
if they would prefer classes organized for veterans only. 648 re- 
sponded “No.” Quite clearly veterans do not wish to be segregated 
nor favor anything resembling segregation in education. 
Apparently some psychiatrists would agree with these veterans, 
for the chancellor of the university having the largest number of 
veterans represented in this investigation wrote: 
After a conference with the psychiatrists in our own med- 
ical school we decided that we would make as little difference 
between them and our civilian students as possible. They are 
taught in the same classes, follow the same subjects, and, in 
the months since we have been active with them, the per- 
centage of success and failure is just about the same as that 
of our student body as a whole. 
A third question directed to the presidents of the institutions coop- 
erating in this study was: What problems are veterans on your 
campus acually encountering? We have all seen lists of problems, 
such as developing emotional control, reviving sensibilities, overcom- 
ing restlessness, accepting personal and moral responsibility, over- 
coming bitterness toward civilians, finding new values, finding new 
goals, adjusting to marriage, returning to student status, providing 
for individual differences, realizing that not all veterans are or will 
be problem cases. The following problems were cited in the present 
study in the order of frequency mentioned: 
1. Emotional and psychological problems. 
2. Inability to settle down to University work. 
3. Difficulties common to students whose schooling has been 
interrupted. 
4. Difficulty in adjusting to sedentary living habits again. 
5. Poor health. 
6. Inadequate finances. 
24 7. Lack of preparation for college work. 
8. Difficulty in getting into social stride. 
9. Too heavy academic program. 
10. Impatience with civilian lack of understanding and 
appreciation. 
Such lists as those given are useful in helping us see the problems 
that we must be prepared to meet, but they are also dangerous. We 
may forget that such lists are somewhat artificial abstractions from 
life, that no veteran is likely to fall into any preconceived pattern, 
and that the reality is a human being, not a problem. We may also 
tend to look at every veteran as though he were a “problem”, in 
which case we become the problem, not the veteran. 
Most of the institutions cooperating in this investigation explained 
that the men now on their campuses do not represent a cross section 
of the group that will eventually return. One cooperating official 
stated, “Almost all persons now being discharged have some physical 
or mental difficulty that prevents their further use by the Army. 
The preponderance of problems that require solution before the proper 
curriculum can be chosen are those concerning physical or mental 
handicaps. ’ ’ 
If these emotional and psychological problems are so prevalent, 
what should administrators do about them? An eminent scientist, 
head of one of the country’s most respected private institutions, says: 
I do not think the faculty of this institution, nor of any 
normal institution of higher learning, is competent to deal in- 
telligently with psychopathic cases. It may be questioned 
whether psychiatry is yet sufficiently developed as a science 
so that even the specialists in it can agree upon an educational 
program, and certainly the average institution that is set up 
for normal students is completely incompetent to handle cases 
of that sort. For any intelligent treatment they must be 
turned over to specialists. 
Perhaps by way of supplement or contrast, I should read the 
response received from a tax-supported institution in one of our 
neighboring states. 
The difficulties of returning servicemen (all of whom are 
medical discharges) encountered so far in our institution would 
rank somewhat like this; 
(a) Health—Every few days we are calling the Veterans’ 
Bureau and asking them to accept, for physical recon- 
ditioning, one of our ex-service students. Three out of 
this number have been mental breaks, but the very large 
per cent of them have been definite physical ailments 
from which they had not really recovered and have to go 
back for further treatment or operations and that sort 
of thing. 
25 (b) Ability to settle down to the kind of work and living that 
is expected in the University. Much of this is the inabil- 
ity to spend long hours with their nose in the book and 
to discipline themselves in mental work. I should add, 
however, that our ex-servicemen are doing better than 
their civilian classmates so far as grades are concerned. 
(c) We have a good many rather highly nervous eases, and 
the difficulties involved with those are the difficulties 
that we have with any student. We try to help them to 
adjust themselves by working with each one as an indi- 
vidual to do the most common sense thing that seems to 
need to be done at the time. I would like to say in pass- 
ing that some of these cases, although requiring a lot of 
patience to handle, are proving to be some of our best 
students and will on the whole make better adjustments 
to the University program than we actually anticipated. 
Perhaps the finest lad that we have, both academically 
and in terms of leadership in the Men’s Residence Hall 
and various other factors, was a rather highly nervous 
case when he came to us and required a lot of careful 
handling. Now I would say that he is fully adjusted and 
will show his leadership in an excellent way. 
Certainly specialists are needed, but faith, common sense, understand- 
ing, and patience are required of the rest of us. 
What types of curricula will best meet the needs of those whose 
education has been interrupted at the college level? Responses to 
this question were received from thirteen institutions. The officials 
of ten believed that their regular courses are sufficiently broad to 
care for the veteran. Several mentioned ways of providing a way 
for the veteran to take review work. One of them wrote; 
May I illustrate with a case who is just now being dealt 
with in our Law School. This young man left at the end of 
his first year of law. He is being discharged from service on 
March 5 and will immediately come back to school and enter 
the Law School on a course called Readings in Law. During 
the remainder of this semester he will really be in a type of 
review which will help him to get back his own confidence and 
understanding in his law courses, and then on April 28 he will 
begin his second year of law. Our experience so far has shown 
that the former student coming back gets back into his work 
and picks it up faster than he thinks he will. Therefore, we 
find that the review type of course which our various schools 
have developed and are developing do not need to be long, but 
primarily long enough to provide the individual with the feel- 
ing of reassurance that he can get back into the stride of 
things. 
In addition to their regular courses and review courses, several 
institutions are offering short courses, special courses, or two-year 
26 terminal courses. One or two admit students at intervals more fre- 
quently than at the usual registration periods. One large state 
university mentions specifically emphasis on an individualized regis- 
tration period for veterans. Several have inaugurated a more adequate 
testing and counseling service to help the veteran select the kind of 
program and amount of load he is to carry. As to the kind of courses 
in which servicemen are interested, the returns of this study parallel 
returns from 9,000 servicemen who were sent questionnaires by Boston 
University, University of Colorado, and the University of Illinois 
which show decided interests in engineering, business administra- 
tion, accounting, teaching, law, and medicine. Practically all of 
the opinions that I have discovered from army education officers 
in the field, veterans, and veteran administrators are to the effect 
that the veterans will want something that will lead to a job as quickly 
as possible. They are impatient, they feel that they have lost valu- 
able time, they want to get ahead rapidly. In view of the influence 
of the veterans of World War I on our national life, one might ask 
whether the veterans of World War II should not be made aware of 
the responsibilities that will rest upon them as citizens and hence 
parallel their vocational or professional program with a sound general 
education. One of the West Coast college authorities cooperating 
in this study wrote: 
It is my observation that the returning veterans . , . tend to 
be interested in professional or vocational training courses 
and they feel keenly the pressure to prepare themselves to 
make a living. With this sort of attitude it is difficult to im- 
press them with the desirability of a liberal arts training, 
however necessary such a training may really be. 
What are the problems of those who have completed their profes- 
sional training and feel the need of refresher courses? Most of the 
institutions have not faced this problem as yet. A few have made 
some preparations for them as indicated by the following two quota- 
tions from western and eastern universities: 
It is our intention to offer refresher courses to undergradu- 
ates largely in the Extension Division. For those who feel the 
need of more elaborate work we are suggesting the repetition 
of certain courses. For refresher courses in the professional 
fields, such as medicine, dentistry, and nursing, programs will 
be on the graduate level. 
With some exceptions these problems will be met by allow- 
ing such students to select their courses freely from the pres- 
ent curricula. In some fields retraining courses will be needed. 
We are already preparing such courses in Hotel Administra- 
tion, Veterinary Medicine, and Law. 
What about methods of instruction? Do they need to be altered 
for the mature students who have had a background of experience 
quite different from that of the average student? Eighteen college 
representatives expressed their opinions on these questions. About 
one-third of them feel that the methods of instruction will not need 
27 to be altered. Another third felt that some change will be necessary. 
The following statements from two replies indicate the nature of their 
opinions: 
I am firmly convinced that it is going to be necessary for 
many instructors to modify their methods of instruction when 
the veterans begin returning in considerable numbers. We 
are faced with a very definite challenge from these veterans 
and I believe we have a difficult job before us in adjusting 
our methods to meet the demands of the several age groups 
which will make up our classes in the future. 
Methods of instruction will be somewhat modified by the 
influx of more mature students, and for the most part this 
result will be good. However, the returning servicemen will 
be unduly impressed by the effective teaching of skills to 
which they were exposed in service, and will be inclined to 
suppose that the same methods would be equally effective in 
teaching generally. 
The nature of the changes to be made are not altogether clear. Of 
those mentioned, more personal attention to the problems of the 
individual student ranks first; less lecture and less “spoon feeding” 
and more participation in class discussions on the part of the student 
are recommended. One looks in vain for the mention of the use of 
audio and visual aids or improved methods of teaching foreign lan- 
guages. A third group of respondents stresses the importance of the 
teacher in the instructional process. Perhaps the following reply is 
indicative of the opinion held by this group: 
Where good methods of instruction have been in vogue, 
God forbid a change. Where poor methods have been undis- 
turbed, get rid of them. I think the veteran’s response is 
determined very largely by the personality of the teacher. 
Combine good methods of teaching with good personality and 
the veterans will respond in the same way as will any other 
group of students. 
It would appear that two-thirds of the institutions included in this 
study contemplate no significant alteration in their instructional 
methods. 
What extra-curricular activities need to be provided for these 
mature students ? Seven universities provide a special organization for 
veterans, called by various titles. All but two others express the 
opinion that the regular extra-curricular activities of the university 
will suffice for most of the veterans. One respondent expresses the 
idea in this fashion: 
No unique program needs to be organized. The sooner the 
returned veteran falls into the pattern of normal-peace-time 
living, the better. The servicemen do not wish to be segre- 
gated, socially or academically. 
28 An opposing view is contained in the following excerpt from a letter : 
As to extra-curricular activities, many of these men arc 
married and are not interested in undergraduate athletic pro- 
grams and college methods of blowing off steam. Social organ- 
izations for married couples, discussion groups, and the 
opportunity to participate in light athletics such as teams, 
swimming, and golf are the needs for these groups. 
As a result of this investigation what conclusions can be drawn on 
the basis of these tentative findings. The answer is “NONE”. How- 
ever, some general impressions, which are not too valid, remain. The 
first is that the colleges and universities for the most part have 
only made a beginning in their attempt to deal with the problem of 
the returning veteran. For example, take the question: "Whom should 
they educate ? Should they educate only those that meet their entrance 
requirements? Should they re-admit students who had poor academic 
records before they entered the service? Who should be responsible 
for educating the serviceman who did not finish high school? 
Possibly a prior consideration to the answering of these questions 
is the realization that many veterans will not return with the same 
education that they had when they went into the service. More than 
a million men in the Army, Navy, and Coast Guard are now partici- 
pating in the Off-Duty Correspondence program of the Armed Forces 
Institute. After the cessation of hostilities an On-Duty educational 
program will be installed, to which any interested servicemen may 
give twenty hours a week of their time. Elementary, high school, and 
trade school instruction will be offered. Headquarters for university 
training in Europe have already been designated in Paris, Rome, 
and Munich. With such a vast program of Off-Duty and On-Duty 
educational program in force, each educational institution will be 
confronted with new problems of admission. In World War I blanket 
credit for one or two years of service was given; studies reveal that 
73 per cent of men given such credit failed out. They were not pre- 
pared to do advanced work. In World War II careful plans have 
been made to furnish information to institutions regarding the train- 
ing and experience that servicemen have had so that an educational 
program based on demonstrated competence can be planned with 
them. Undoubtedly some applicants for educational aid under the 
G. I. Bill should be counseled to take advantage of the loan feature 
of the bill instead of planning to go to college. No good either to 
the student or society can accrue from admitting students who are 
unprepared to do educational work. 
At present it would appear that only a few universities believe in 
the theme of this conference—Adjusting ivith the Veteran. Many 
believe in “education as usual.” For example, recall the opinions— 
“the regular courses will take care of the students,” “the regular 
extra-curricular activities will suffice,” “not much alteration in 
teaching methods is required. ’ ’ While I have confidence that changes 
will eventually come, present thought seems to suggest that in many 
universities the veteran is expected to do most of the adjusting. Gen- 
eral concern is evidenced over the fact that servicemen seem to be 
29 interested in practical, professional, and vocational fields instead of 
general education. A few institutions believe that veterans with emo- 
tional problems should be kept off the campus. Some are planning 
to set up a more adequate educational, vocational, and adjustment 
counseling service to help the veteran. Of course, great differences 
are to be found between institutions. While no hard and fast division 
can be drawn, it does appear that tax-supported institutions have 
tended to respond more readily to the problem of readjusting with 
the veteran, while the privately supported institutions have tended 
to be the custodians of the status quo. Let me reiterate, however, 
that these comments are residual ‘ ‘ impressions ’’; they are not ‘ ‘ facts. ’ ’ 
I have every confidence that all higher educational institutions will 
in time more adequately meet the needs of the returning veteran. 
They must meet them or a new educational institution will eventually 
spring up to replace the old. 
What should educational institutions do in readjusting with the 
returning servicemen? Before this question can be answered, certain 
preliminary statements must be made. (1) Most institutions do not 
now possess enough factual evidence on the basis of which authorities 
can be sure of the proper policies to follow. (2) Since the medically 
and psychologically discharged veteran outnumbers all other types, 
it may be wise to postpone the development of a program until the 
needs of a more representative group can be studied. (3) Educational 
institutions will desire to treat the returning servicemen in a coopera- 
tive and generous fashion. (4) Such cooperation does not necessarily 
imply that anyone who desires to attend a particular school or college 
should be admitted. In the long run wo do no service either to the 
veteran or to society in admitting students to such schools if they 
are neither interested in nor can profit from what these institutions 
have to offer. (5) While it is clear that some special arrangements 
will need to be made for returning servicemen, it seems evident that 
they do not wish to be educated entirely apart from other persons 
of their own age. (6) The opportunity that educational adminis- 
trators have to make their institutions more suited to the needs of 
servicemen and more flexible in practice should be seized upon to 
establish the permanent practice of meeting the real needs of their 
students. Flexibility can be achieved without a lowering of educa- 
tional standards. 
With this background it is recommended: 
(1) That where possible, local communities provide for the educa- 
tion of the returning veteran who has less than a complete high 
school education or the veteran who does not wish to attend 
college. The Wisconsin plan of encouraging the veteran to 
attend the Wisconsin Adult Education and vocational school 
system seems ideally suited to this purpose. 
(2) That colleges and universities should establish Consultation 
Boards for returning servicemen and women and ex-war work- 
ers. On such a board there should be one member who knows 
the rules, regulations, traditions, and personnel of the college 
or university; a second member should be a veteran of World 
30 War II who has seen field duty; a third member should be 
an ex-war worker; and the fourth and fifth members should 
be persons rich in the knowledges essential to vocational and 
psychiatric counseling. This board would be a body to which 
employed personnel could refer problems requiring the determ- 
ination of policy. Perhaps one of its prime functions would 
be from time to time to present the needs of the veteran and 
ex-war worker to the faculty and staff. 
(3) The Office of Veterans’ Affairs should be a part of the Divi- 
sion of Student Personnel. General counseling service on 
vocational and educational problems, provisions of veterans’ 
benefits should be rendered by an enlarged staff of the Divi- 
sion of Student Personnel. Admissions, Housing, Records, 
Student Activities, Health Service, Placement and Testing 
Offices should be called upon as needed to give special con- 
sideration to the veteran. Easy access to psychiatric service 
should be assured. The Office of Veterans’ Affairs should have 
laison relations with advisement officers in each college of the 
University to give special academic counseling to veterans. With 
the help of the Consultation Board it would be my hope that 
these counselors would be empowered to cut through non-essen- 
tial prerequisites and course sequences so that the veteran 
would be able to attack problems of his major interest at the 
earliest possible moment. 
(4) While credit for separate military experiences should be given 
on the sound bases recommended by the American Council on 
Education, admission of veterans to college should not be by 
the pre-war “rituals” of time-serving, Carnegie units, college 
preparatory sequences, and high school certification. Other 
measures of competence and evidence of ability to do college 
work should be employed. Education can be streamlined with- 
out torpedoing standards. 
(5) It is recommended that colleges establish “Vestibule Schools” 
for veterans. The main purpose of such a school is to enable 
veterans to get under way with their studies without waiting 
until the next term opens and also to assist the veterans in 
readjusting themselves to college life. They would be registered 
in the regular courses of instruction in the university as 
soon as they are ready to enter them and a new term begins. 
Such a vestibule school would also be under the advisory 
direction of the Consultation Board. 
(6) Colleges and universities should supply review courses in the 
various areas of general and professional education where 
needed. Where other facilities are not available in local com- 
munities, a small number of sub-college courses should be pro- 
vided. As soon as the veteran has demonstrated his compe- 
tence to do work of a college grade, he should be enrolled in 
such courses. It would appear more important to provide a 
few courses of sub-college grade, than to do sub-college work 
31 in many courses of supposedly college level. Regular courses 
should be stripped of their lethargical character and where 
possible aimed more directly at the functional outcomes sought 
for all students, civilian or veteran. Less emphasis should be 
placed on passing courses and amassing credits and more 
emphasis on meaningful and purposeful learning. Educators 
should not fail to remember their responsibility to help 
students to become good citizens, good fathers and mothers 
as well as wage-earners. Therefore, general education should 
not be neglected. 
(6) Methods of instruction will need to be carefully re-examined. 
Considerable emphasis in all courses should be placed on 
methods of study, habits of work, planning and evaluating 
programs of study. In many instances reliance on the lecture 
should be replaced by guided group discussions. Visual aids, 
demonstrations, actual participation in processes should be 
multiplied. Attention to individual needs should be stressed. 
Eemedial techniques should be employed where required. 
(7) Aside from participating in a veterans’ organization on the 
campus, returning servicemen and women should be encour- 
aged to join with other students in campus activities. It is 
conceivable that discussion groups and other activities may 
need to be organized for the more mature students. It is 
believed that as little segregation as possible should occur and 
that even in these activities many civilian students will desire 
to participate. 
As I stated at the beginning, American education is faced with its 
greatest opportunity and greatest challenge. We may adopt one of 
three attitudes: (1) we may become so excited about the veterans’ 
problems that we go off half cocked; (2) we may tend to deny that 
there is any problem and go on with “business as usual”; or (3) 
we may study the problem carefully and sanely, realizing that in 
the situation there exists not only an opportunity to help the war- 
worker and veteran, but also a chance to improve education itself. 
It is this latter attitude that I hope we shall adopt, keeping level- 
headed about changes that should be made, cooperative but not 
political in our dealing with the problem, holding on to the tested 
values of the past but not being afraid to forge new weapons to 
meet present needs and those of the future. The future of the veteran 
is to some extent in our hands, and to a very large extent ours is 
in his. 
32 Discussion of Paper of Dr. Francis Rosecrance 
by RUTH O. McCARN 
Counselor of Women, Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois 
lam sure you will agree with me that Dr. Rosecrance’s paper is 
interesting and valuable. My comments will be directed toward the 
less formal side of the education of the returning veteran. The moti- 
vation of veterans who return for education will include immediate 
and long term goals. Christopher La Farge in his article in the April 
issue of Harper’s magazine suggests that veterans would do well to 
return to school while they are making their adjustment to civilian 
life. In any event schools and colleges have an obligation to see to 
it that each veteran is helped—not hindered—in his change of status 
from soldier to civilian. 
It is profoundly important to the veterans as well as to the school 
that everyone with whom they come in contact treat them with cour- 
teous friendliness and genuine interest. It goes without saying that 
such friendliness must be genuine and not condescending. It is also 
important that they be helped to select courses at which they will 
not fail. General experience indicates that they should start slowly, 
taking not too many hours during their first term of work. Boys who 
have been in the thick of battle will many of them find it hard to 
concentrate on books. 
It is to be hoped that methods of college teaching will be improved 
by what the military services have found out about visual aids, lan- 
guage instruction, and methods of presenting material. Certainly the 
teaching methods of instructors will be sharpened by the presence 
in their classes of men who have had experience in the remote coun- 
tries where war has gone on. 
In the whole field of informal education there is much that can be 
done to interpret the veteran to the rest of the campus and the campus 
to the veteran. At our own University veterans have an organization 
which they call the Anchor and Eagle Club. The group numbers 
about 200, four of whom are women. At the beginning of the year 
the group is primarily concerned with such practical questions as 
the housing of veterans, helping them to get registered, and in general 
get off to a good start. The adviser of the group tells me that in the 
beginning the group seems large and vital. Membership drops off 
as individuals get their needs met. The fact that attendance at 
meetings declines is in our opinion a healthy sign. Recently the 
student Y.W.C.A. arranged a meeting attended by women students 
and veterans. It was a frank discussion of the problems which vet- 
erans find in student attitudes with recommendations on how to 
shorten the gap between mature veterans and the less mature under- 
graduate. 
The return to colleges and universities of the thousands of men 
whose education has been interrupted will mean that college adminis- 
trators will need to do some careful thinking about some consequent 
problems. For instance, it is likely that we will need to house married 
students, perhaps married students with young children. It is likely 
33 too that colleges in the North will have a great increase in Negro 
applications since the federal provision for educating veterans applies 
without discrimination as to color, race, or creed. 
If every school could have the kind of board which Dr. Rosecrance 
suggests to advise on policies that affect veterans there would be 
less likelihood of our falling between two dangers in our handling 
of the problem: (1) Treat the veteran like all other student appli- 
cants, an attitude of “This is what we have to offer; you can either 
take it or leave it,” and (2) Go all out in an effort to meet the needs 
of veterans even though we abandon our usual college offerings. From 
our experience here at Northwestern we feel that veterans do in 
general wish to be treated like other students. However, they need 
to have access to the help which should be available to all students. 
That is counseling that is based on understanding, some facilities 
for making administrative requirements more flexible, and a faculty 
that is genuinely interested in and responsive to needs of individual 
students. 
34 The Emotional Aspects of Industrial and Employment 
Problems of the Returning Serviceman 
H. C. TAYLOR 
There has been so much discussion during the past year or two 
concerning the problems of returning servicemen, by both professional 
and lay groups, that it seems hardly possible to present any start- 
lingly new points of view on the subject, from the industrial and 
employment standpoint or from any other standpoint. This paper 
represents simply an attempt to organize in outline form the major 
aspects of the problem of the returning serviceman, in order to see 
in what form the problem may actually confront an industrial 
organization at the close of the war. Furthermore, the paper will be 
concerned entirely with the large group of servicemen whose readiness 
to return to civilian life can be assumed; rather than with the rela- 
tively smaller group whose battle experiences or physical disabilities 
have been of such severity as to require professional care and pro- 
longed efforts toward rehabilitation. 
Employment Manager, Hawthorne Works, Western Electric Company, Cicero, Illinois 
Background Factors Contributing to Emotional Disturbance 
The degree of emotional disturbance present in any individual, of 
course, is dependent in part on the personality organization which 
he brings to the situation, and in part on the complexity of the 
environmental problem which he is called upon to face. It is, there- 
fore, clear at the out-set that the extent to which the group of return- 
ing servicemen as a whole may develop emotional difficulties with 
respect to their occupational experience is to a large degree dependent 
on factors which extend far beyond the control of any one individual 
or any one organization. Some of these basic background factors 
which will determine the extent of the problem may be listed: 
1. Undoubtedly, the most critical single factor is the capacity of 
the country to provide the sixty million jobs which have been set as 
our postwar objective. 
If business conditions are good, and if a reasonable degree of 
prosperity can actually be maintained, the frustration incident to 
the reabsorption of returning servicemen will be vastly reduced. 
Much of our preoccupation with the problem of the returning service- 
man seems to be traceable to our uncertainty as to whether the 
nation will be able to provide a means of livelihood for all who wish 
to work in the postwar period. Broadly speaking, this is the entire 
problem of reconversion and postwar security which will shortly be 
the nation’s number one problem. It is mentioned here not because 
it will be within the control of any one of us who may deal with an 
individual returning service man, but because it will so profoundly 
affect the total scope of the problem. 
2. National legislation and policy concerning veterans’ rights and 
privileges. 
The further development of a comprehensive national policy with 
respect to the employment rights of servicemen, and the provision 
35 of financial and educational benefits during the readjustment period, 
should have an appreciable effect on the extent to which environmental 
frustrations may cause emotional difficulties; and, in the over-all, 
these policies may be of more significance than the isolated efforts 
of any one group or organization dealing with the individual veteran. 
3. Company policy. 
In a large organization, much of the effectiveness of the individual 
handling of a particular serviceman will depend on the formation 
of a definite and concrete company policy. Three comments may be 
worth making with respect to the formation of company policy. 
A. Policy formation at this time is difficult because a policy has 
to be directed toward the solution of a concrete problem; and so 
much of the problem is at present far from concrete. It is not known 
when or at what rate the reabsorption of servicemen may be required; 
and it is not known what business conditions may prevail when they 
return. In formulating a policy many organizations will, therefore, 
have to “feel their way along” and provide increasingly concrete 
rules and procedures as the nature of the problem becomes more 
evident. 
B. As a preliminary planning measure, each organization may wish 
to make some assumptions as to the business situation which is likely 
to prevail, and some guesses as to the rate at which the servicemen 
will return. On the basis of these assumptions, at least some tentative 
plans can be laid for the force readjustments which will, under those 
circumstances, be feasible. 
C. As an immediate measure, it may be noted that there is value 
in consistency or uniformity of treatment. In the absence of a suit- 
able long-term policy, organizations may adopt interim rules which 
appear to be adequate under the conditions of the moment; and may 
then set up controls in order to insure that employment, placement, 
service and line organizations will administer these temporary policies 
in a uniform manner from case to case. Such matters as seniority 
rights, promotions, and rate readjustments can, in this way, be 
administered so as to minimize the immediate causes for discontent 
on the part of one serviceman as compared with another. 
Job Problems and the Emotional Responses of Veterans 
We have just reviewed the economic and industrial back-ground 
which will provide the setting for the job experiences of the group of 
returning servicemen. Let us assume now that jobs are available and 
that the returning serviceman does find at least a reasonably 
satisfactory job opportunity. Let us review briefly what problems 
he may expect to face and how he may be expected to respond to 
these problems. Three sources of frustration come to mind as bases for 
the problems he will face in adjusting to his industrial environment. 
1. Any new job is a problem to anyone. This obvious fact has been 
emphasized from time to time in general personnel work, and has 
received particular emphasis during the war period when housewives 
and others who are not normally a part of the labor market have been 
36 seeking to adjust to the industrial situation. It may well be that a 
sizeable portion of the problem of reabsorbing servicemen may be no 
more beyond the normal range of personnel activities than is implied 
in the need to provide adequate orientation and induction procedures 
which will simplify for anyone the problems of adjusting to a work 
situation. 
2. A vastly different job is a problem to anyone. This also is an 
obvious fact which has always received attention from employment 
and personnel people. In normal times, there is often, for example, 
some reluctance to hire a former house-to-house salesman on a con- 
fining desk job, or to place a former clerical worker of introvert 
characteristics on an active assignment involving difficult personal 
contacts. Any environmental change which requires considerable reor- 
ganization of habit represents a problem-solving situation which may 
lead to emotional disturbance on the part of some people. It is clear 
that this problem will present itself to nearly all returning servicemen. 
The life of a soldier is different to a marked degree from the life of 
the average civilian. It was a problem for most men to disrupt their 
civilian habits and acquire the habit patterns necessary to a soldier; 
and will be a problem to them again to break up those habits and 
return to a civilian routine. 
3. In addition to the necessary readjustments which every soldier 
is called upon to make, many have had emotional experiences of acute 
intensity in their combat experience. This group will require special 
consideration beyond that which will be necessary in effecting read- 
justments of the two types just enumerated. It may be pointed out, 
however, that although this is the group with which we are most often 
preoccupied in thinking of the employment of returning servicemen, 
it will actually represent a relatively small proportion of the total 
volume of reemployment. Of the total of eleven or twelve million 
servicemen, only a relatively small group will have had combat experi- 
ence to an extent which might be traumatic. 
In meeting these problems of the job situation, many of the return- 
ing servicemen will give evidence of emotional disturbance. The 
nature of these emotional manifestations, it may be assumed, will be 
the same as those which appear in any other group of people in the 
presence of environmental frustrations. The war and the subsequent 
period of readjustment have provided new problems for these men; 
but they have not provided the human organism with any new forms 
of refuge or emotional response. Presumably, we should find their 
abnormal manifestations running the entire range of emotional 
responses, including the common hysterias, phobias, ideas of reference 
and regressive behavior; as well as the major psychasthenic and neu- 
rasthenic symptoms of chronic indecision and abnormal fatigue. Thus, 
there will be more cases of emotional disturbance than in the prewar 
working population, but not basically different kinds of cases. 
A final observation with respect to the emotional problems and 
emotional responses of the veteran is this: that there is reason for 
real optimism with respect to the long-term outcome of these emo- 
tional disturbances in the case of the vast majority of the men. In 
37 our prewar employment experience, tlie obviously disturbed individual 
was likely to be an individual whose personality makeup was unequal 
to the demands of ordinary every-day life. For that reason, he was 
often regarded as a poor employment risk. The returning servicemen, 
on the contrary, are by no means persons who were unequal to the 
demands of ordinary civilian life. They are, for the most part, men 
who have successfully made the adjustment to military life, which 
was markedly different from their former pursuits and far from 
their own personal preference. There is, therefore, no reason to ques- 
tion their innate capacity to readjust to a life which they led for 
many more years than they will have spent as soldiers, and to which 
they are most anxious to return. 
The implication of what we have just said with regard to the emo- 
tion-provoking problems and the emotional responses of the returning 
serviceman is that these problems and responses will represent the 
same problems and the same responses which we have always recog- 
nized to a lesser degree in the case of persons who are seeking to adjust 
to a given business and industrial situation. They will be aggravated 
beyond the usual degree because the extent of change from the pre- 
ceding occupation will be greater than usual, and because these men 
will at the same time be required to rehabituate themselves to all 
other phases of civilian life. 
The personnel job in industry has always been addressed in part 
toward the problems of facilitating the adjustment of individuals 
to the work situation; and it may not be too much of an over-simpli- 
fication to assume that the job of reabsorbing these men will involve 
chiefly an increased emphasis on the adequate functioning of the 
normal personnel processes. It may be helpful to enumerate some 
of the major personnel functions in terms of the problem which may 
be presented by the returning servicemen. 
Minimizing Frustration in the Job Environment 
1. Inasmuch as the employment office will represent the first con- 
tact for these men, it is desirable that the atmosphere of the office 
be as cordial as possible, and that the employment process itself 
be carried on as rapidly and as efficiently as possible. Many of the 
men will be sensitive and apprehensive when they come to look for 
a job; and their frustration may be eased considerably at this point 
of initial contact. 
2. It is important that their job placement be reviewed carefully 
in the light of their previous civilian experience, their military 
experience, and their interests and aspirations. Clearly, this is a 
desirable objective in the case of any prospective employee, service- 
man or otherwise. In the majority of cases, it will present no peculiar 
problem. Wherever high grade military experience has a reasonable 
counterpart in civilian occupations, it will be mutually desirable, 
from the standpoint of the applicant and the industry, to effect a 
job placement which will utilize that training. 
It is anticipated that there will be difficult cases of individuals 
who have achieved a considerable degree of distinction in military 
38 work which has no civilian counterpart. Although in many cases and 
in many companies this problem may be successfully met, it seems 
likely that, in the over-all, there will be cases of frustration arising 
out of the necessity for this type of readjustment. The problem is 
not only a military one. There have always been some persons whose 
previous line of work has become impossible to continue, and who 
have not been able to change to another occupation which would 
utilize to the fullest the skills and capacities exercised in their former 
position. There is no neat solution beyond a search for the best 
available solution in each individual case. 
3. It will be desirable to provide systematic induction procedures 
in order to simplify the problem of adjustment during the early 
weeks and months of employment. 
4. It will be necessary to give additional attention to the possibility 
of special training courses designed to fill in rapidly the “gaps” in 
the information and skills possessed by these men. If they had not 
lost time from their normal working experience because of the neces- 
sity of military service, they would have acquired some orientation 
and skill in their chosen occupation. It will be desirable to help them 
make up this lost time insofar as it is possible to do so. 
5. In recognition of the fact that the adjustment period for these 
men will be more acute than in the case of normal entrants to the 
working force, it will doubtless be desirable to provide systematic 
follow-up procedures during the early months of employment, in 
order to review both their job experience and their personal pre- 
occupations. 
6. It will be desirable to help them secure information concerning 
their rights and privileges as veterans, and to guide them in obtain- 
ing any assistance or service to which they are entitled. 
7. Finally, it will be desirable to provide special training to per- 
sonnel people and line supervisors concerning the problems involved 
in handling the returned serviceman. 
This training should presumably include some discussion of the 
fact that these men are faced with the problem of unlearning a 
whole series of habits, a whole way of living, which is no longer 
appropriate to the environment in which they now find themselves; 
and with the problem of learning or re-learning the habits required 
in normal civilian life. This is a problem-solving situation in which 
there may be times when the problems are difficult to cope with. At 
such times, fears, apprehensions, and emotional disturbances are to be 
expected; but these disturbances will disappear in time if we exer- 
cise patience and understanding. The key note of this training—and, 
indeed, possibly the key note of all we might say concerning the 
problem of absorbing veterans into the industrial situation—may not 
be too poorly summarized by the words, “time and patience.” The 
process of habit formation—of unlearning the old way of life and 
relearning the new—is bound to take time. To a large extent, time 
is all that will be required. Meanwhile, it will be the function of the 
39 personnel man and the line supervisor to exercise tolerance and under- 
standing, with the realization that in the vast majority of cases, time 
will erase the problem. 
We have now reviewed some of the ways in which the industrial 
environment may be so set as to minimize the sources of environmental 
frustration and thus to speed the process of adjustment. It will be 
clear that no amount of care in these respects can completely wash 
out the essential problem-solving nature of the situation for the 
returning serviceman. What therapeutic aids can be provided, beyond 
the removal, so far as possible, of the sources of environmental 
frustration ? 
Therapeutic Aids to Adjustment 
In a professional group such as this, there are doubtless many 
different answers which might be given to this question depending on 
the theoretical preferences and clinical experience of the members. 
It may be of interest, however, to mention that in the Western Elec- 
tric Company, the Personnel Counseling Plan has been designed to 
provide assistance to individuals in thinking through those problems 
which are potential or actual causes of emotional disturbances. The 
plan is based on the observation that in any group, industrial or 
otherwise, any person who does not lead a purely vegetative exist- 
ence is at times bound to be faced with problems of varying complexity 
and importance to which the solution is not immediately apparent. 
All such situations may be thought of as sources of apprehension 
and emotional disturbance, giving rise to symptoms which range from 
minor preoccupations to emotional break-down. The returning serv- 
icemen will in this respect represent no new kind of problem, although 
the number of such causes of disturbance may be greater than in the 
case of the normal working population. 
The therapeutic method used in the personnel counseling plan 
consists basically of the unguided interview. It is the function of 
the interviewer simply to stimulate the interviewee to continue his 
thinking about his problems in a way which will lead him to a 
solution on the basis of which he himself can take definite action. 
This method is familiar in principle to all of you and hardly needs 
to be described in further detail. It may be well to emphasize that 
this method differs sharply from the other common method of giving 
clinical assistance, in which the counselor makes a diagnosis of the 
problem; determines upon a solution which he believes to be the 
proper one; and communicates this diagnosis and solution to the 
interviewee in the form of advice. In this active type of therapy, 
the counselor may also bring other persons into the situation, such 
as friends, relatives, or supervisors, and enlist their aid wherever he 
feels that it may be helpful in working out a solution to the problem. 
Without attempting a theoretical discussion of the relative merits 
of these two methods of psychotherapy, it may be noted that the 
counseling procedure as now used in the Company has proved helpful 
to many employees since its inception in 1936; and it should likewise 
be helpful to returning servicemen in coping with their problems of 
adjustment to civilian life. 
40 Conclusion 
It can not be hoped that this review will shed much light on the 
special problems which will undoubtedly arise in individual cases 
of industrial adjustment problems of returning servicemen. As stated 
at the outset, it is not the purpose of this paper or this conference 
to deal primarily with the extreme cases of psychological disturbance 
arising from combat experience or physical disability. Many of these 
men will, of course, require institutional care to begin with, and 
many will eventually be able to resume a normal life. 
It is hoped that this will be helpful simply as a review of the 
employment problems which may be encountered in the typical cases 
of readjustment from military to civilian routines. If the national 
economic situation is such that reasonable job opportunities can be 
provided for these men, it seems likely that there will be few prob- 
lems which time will not heal in an atmosphere of patience and 
understanding. 
41 Discussion of Paper of Mr. Harold Taylor 
AGNES A. SHARP, Ph.D. 
Head of Medical Department, A. B. Dick Co., Chicago, Illinois 
In discussing Mr. Harold Taylor’s paper I want to emphasize the 
fact that during the past two years all of us have been making plans, 
policies and programs for the returning servicemen and women. Two 
years ago it seemed much simpler than it does now. Perhaps it was 
because looking to the future we were much more certain than we are 
now. It is perfectly true and increasingly so that every Company in 
this area that I know anything about is aware of its responsibility for 
the future not only of their own veterans but of all veterans and they 
are making plans to carry their responsibility. 
The now famous 60 million jobs means that every Company has to 
plan ways of adding to their production or else there will not be the 
60 million jobs. 
Mr. Taylor is quite right in pointing out that the degree of emo- 
tional disturbance present in any individual is in part due to the 
personality of the man and in part due to the complexity of the 
environment in which he works. It is clear to everyone that a man’s 
job is not his whole life, but it is also clear that a man must work, to 
eat, to live, and that without a worth-while job it is difficult for him 
to be happy. Made work is not enough. He must feel part of a going 
concern and have respect both for his job and for himself. 
There are three angles being discussed here at this two-day meeting. 
First, the veteran’s health both physical and mental, for now and in 
the future, that must be planned and cared for. The Veteran’s Bureau 
is the responsible agency and the medical profession is making wise 
plans. The educational and vocational angle of the returning veterans ’ 
lives is being watched over by the educational institutions and their 
plans too are being discussed here. Perhaps it is because other people’s 
jobs look simpler than our own that it seems to us in industry that 
the Veterans Bureau, organized primarily to carry out the government 
plans for the welfare of veterans, and the educational institutions 
who cater to the needs of the individual, are in a more strategic and 
simple situation than is industry on which so much depends. Industry 
must keep going and provide jobs for these veterans. Industry knows 
this and is doing its best to plan ways and means of carrying out this 
responsibility. 
Commander Schwartz said this morning that certain facts and 
responsibilities must be recognized by returning servicemen and women 
if they are to be well and happy in their work. He says this out of 
his experience in Naval Hospitals. Psychologists call this the “ reality 
principle”, and we discuss the fact that certain unalterable external 
facts call for an internal adjustment on the part of individuals finding 
themselves up against these facts. One good reason why a job is nec- 
essary to the servicemen is this reality principle whereby they measure 
up to standards of production which, in the end, give them a sense of 
accomplishment. This means that consistency and uniformity of treat- 
ment in the job is a good thing rather than the attempt to fit each job 
42 to the individual. Placement, of course, is important, advice to them 
is important, the service available to them in each organization is 
important, promotion and rates must be fairly handled, and they must 
be absorbed quickly into the group so that their sense of dislocation 
from leaving an organized whole, the military services, is taken care 
of by belonging to a new group. 
Finally, I would like to discuss the program of the non-directed 
interview which has been so well developed in the Western Electric 
Company since 1936. All normal people in this country like to gripe. 
It is a sign of good morale, only if this gripe is listened to, accepted 
and changes made when the gripes indicate they should be made. They 
are primarily safety valves. 
It must be remembered in discussing the non-directed interview 
that Western Electric has a large Personnel Department, a large 
Service Department and an employee’s club called the Hawthorne 
Club in the plant which Mr. Taylor has been describing this afternoon. 
These departments function as such organizations should for the bene- 
fit of the employees. 
The non-directed interview primarily furnishes the opportunity for 
a person to try his ideas out in a benign, friendly atmosphere. The 
interviewer performs the function of a sounding board and a mirror 
in which the person who is talking hears his ideas and sees his plans 
as he spreads them before a person trained to listen, pledged to the 
confidential handling of everything he hears, and friendly but not 
easily influenced. It is amazing how often a very fine idea or a real 
problem changes its complexion when talked about before a friendly 
but astute listener. The reason I think this has worked so well at 
Western Electric is that the interviewers do follow the instructions 
and do not solve problems or direct the individual towards solutions 
of his problems. The interview develops in the employee a degree of 
the power of self evaluation or autocriticism which we all need. Such 
an interview helps one take responsibility for his ideas and the solu- 
tion of his problems. I am sure the non-directed interview will be a 
valuable approach with the returning veterans. Helping in the Readjustment of the Soldier and His Family 
MARGUERITE G. NORDMAN 
Director of Home Service, St. Louis Chapter, American Red Cross, St. Louis, Missouri 
Newspaper headlines, magazine articles and radio broadcasts are 
all drawing attention to the veteran. Will he be different when he 
returns? Will his readjustment to civilian life present many problems? 
What can the veteran do about them ? What can his family do ? What 
can the caseworker do? I have been asked to talk about the problems 
of the veteran not disabled but changed by his war experience. This 
is the group that Home Service in St. Louis sees little of as our pro- 
gram is geared to the responsibility for the families of men in service 
and to the disabled veteran. We have not yet seen the millions to be 
discharged; we have seen only some of the thousands who are disabled 
or less able to continue military service. Until demobilization takes 
place and we see the large group of discharged veterans, it is dif- 
ficult for a caseworker to predict what the veterans’ problems will be 
and how he can meet them. We know from our experience how some 
faced leaving home and how families reacted, and we are aware of 
changes that have taken place. Some of us worked with veterans 
after the first World War and might be expected to make deductions 
from that experience, but 1918 is a long time ago. This is a different 
war and our skills in understanding and in helping are different. 
In this paper I am not referring to any of our experiences after the 
last war. From the present experience and from our knowledge of 
the situation confronting the discharged men who have come to us 
we can analyze case material and come to some conclusions. 
The first reaction we were made aware of was the reaction of the 
man and his family to the stern fact of separation. At time of enter- 
ing service, some men, fearful of how their families would manage 
after they left home, came to talk over financial assistance, and, with 
the help of the caseworker, discussed other problems more threatening 
than the initially verbalized concern over lack of money. One boy 
knew that his mother could never make it alone but hated to suggest 
sending her to relatives in another state as he knew her great resist- 
ance to leaving. Could we help him decide ? A husband knew his wife 
was not well but let her put off medical care; then when induction 
threatened he could not leave without knowing the true diagnosis. 
Could we plan medical care ? A father who was aware that his eight- 
year old girl was becoming more withdrawn day by day because of 
embarrassment as a result of her buck teeth, now saw it as a reason 
for not going into service. Yes, he intended to take her to an ortho- 
dontist as soon as he had funds but what could he do now? It was 
the hurricane of induction that made these things assume tremendous 
proportions as they became both rationalizations for not leaving and 
realities of business to be done. We know from the records that many 
could not adjust to group living in the barracks, to military routine, 
and severe authoritative control. We know that each reacted to his 
new situation with his individual personality pattern made up of all 
his life experiences. The military was very supportive, though accused 
by some of being too soft, they helped many men over the first hump 
of difficulties involved in the new adjustment. 
44 The farm boy who had guided his work by the needs of the land 
and by weather, took a longer period to get accustomed to military 
routine. The sensitive person, almost a perfectionist, rebelled against 
this new life which robbed him of his carefully nurtured independence. 
Some men could not make the transition and we know that many were 
immediate casualties in the process of fitting into a different pattern 
of life that tried to make all men equal. 
Families, too, had their readjustment to make. Most families faced 
separation with courage and strength to go forward. Many wives and 
mothers took employment or began work as volunteers in activities 
related to the war effort to keep themselves occupied. These are the 
families the caseworker seldom knows. Let us be clear in emphasizing 
that as caseworkers we do not see a true cross section of the com- 
munity. We do see rich and poor alike, but our work is with the 
troubled group, not those who can stand alone. We saw the mothers 
who could not give up their sons, and the wives who were too depend- 
ent to struggle alone. Young mothers with disturbed children, came 
for advice as to how to control the children’s behavior unaware that 
the children were only reflecting their own anxiety. Persons who w~ere 
physically ill were not able to take on additional strain and many with 
defined personality difficulties could not make the readjustment called 
for by the separation of the man from their home. We know that all 
the hazards of regular life, such as acute illness or death, strike the 
family of the man in service as well as the civilian, but that help in 
these situations is doubly hard when one member, usually a crucial 
member, is away. Often at the point of application, the wife’s ques- 
tion is a casual one about her allowance. But the caseworker sensing 
her tense manner, is quickly conscious that something more funda- 
mental is disturbing her, and being a friendly person, a skillful lis- 
tener, and capable of evaluating as the interview develops, she helps 
the woman to discuss the real basis of her anxiety. One woman’s 
worry was caused by a letter from her husband in which he mentioned 
being ill but gave no specific information and did not tell her he had 
already reported for medical care. Another’s concern was about how 
her husband might react to her plan of putting their child into a 
nursery school so that she might take employment. Would her husband 
think that she is neglecting the child and no longer interested in their 
home ? Others, after expressing their resentment over a war separation 
were reassured in knowing that their feeling was a normal reaction 
to an abnormal situation. While some were helped with casework 
skills, others needed direct psychiatric help. Some responded well to 
treatment, others were unable to carry on alone. In a few instances 
servicemen were released or given domestic assignment if the Military 
Authorities were convinced that the whole structure of the family 
would crash if the man in service, the only stable member, remained 
away. The way the man in service could accept leaving home and 
the family’s reaction to his going, were basic factors that had to be 
considered in interim planning. Emotional insecurities, ill health and 
sometimes financial insecurities made for second best planning in 
many homes. Actually the best plan that could be worked out with 
most of the families we saw as a second best plan. The women wanted 
45 their men back and that was their primary need even though they 
did not always put it into words. There were, of course, some men 
whose patriotic enlistment was the desertion from an intolerable home 
situation; and there were women who reported their husbands to 
their draft boards so as to get them out of the way, but these were 
few. A view of our caseload in the crowded years behind us has 
shown us predominantly a strong tie between men and their families; 
interwoven frequently with neurotic trends, but strong for all that. 
In making and in adjusting to their second best plans, families 
have created something that it will be difficult for the veteran to 
return to. Many families have had to double up due to lack of avail- 
able housing or to make the allowance stretch. Many immature wives 
have gone home to mother rather than face responsibility alone. Others 
have escaped responsibility for their children through employment. 
Many wives, formerly satisfied in their dependence on their husbands 
are now changed. They have become useful workers and may be too 
independent to get along with the same husband when he returns. 
Change of residence has brought other problems. Families have fol- 
lowed husbands up to the time of their overseas assignment, often to 
settle in the last community, others have left rural areas or small 
communities for urban centers with large war industries. We have 
been working with one family, consisting of a wife and five children 
who belong in a small Missouri town. They had followed the service- 
man until his shipping orders came. The allowance of $160.00 a 
month is almost double their average income prior to his going to 
service. Before his induction, the soldier did no reading and seldom 
ever wrote, although he did know how to sign his name. He is satisfied 
now with military service, he enjoys the routine and companionship 
of other soldiers and he has learned to read and write. He is worried, 
however, about what is happening to his children who are being 
poorly cared for by an inadequate mother who is exposing them to 
hazards of poor nutrition, poor housing and no schooling. The case- 
worker has no magic with which to Help an inadequate mother who is 
unwilling to return to the community where she is known and where 
she could live fairly comfortably, who chooses to stay in hotel rooms 
and eat meals in restaurants and when her allowance is spent, depend 
on well-meaning citizens to give help or demand that someone pro- 
duce funds for her. The caseworker faces many loyalties in this kind 
of situation, to the man in service, to the children, and to the reality 
of stable planning. 
The caseworker is not alone in having torn loyalities. One mother 
who has recently come to us had assumed responsibility for her son’s 
wife and a child by a previous marriage and the mother is disturbed 
by what is happening. Her 23 year old son, who is in the Navy, married 
last summer on the West Coast while on leave. He said he married 
because he felt very sorry for the girl and while he questioned her 
reputation, he felt certain that if she agreed to go to his mother’s 
home, all would be well. But the mother, in coming to us, tells of 
the girl’s excessive drinking, neglect of her baby and herself, and of 
the definite medical report of a recent venereal infection. Our worker 
gave the mother what she most needed, an opportunity to tell someone 
46 what she is going through and in so doing it became easier for her to 
make her own decision about the hopelessness of preserving the mar- 
riage. She was then able to write her son for the first time to share 
with him what was actually happening. The mother was loyal to her 
son throughout, but with the advent of her daughter-in-law, she took 
on a new loyalty to her as well, but this newer loyalty was beaten 
down by her observation of the girl’s behavior. We did not go beyond 
into an evaluation of the deeper mother-son attachment in this intake 
interview and the mother did not return for further help. 
Caseworkers have been used by both the man in service and his 
family during this first transition period. This leads us to believe 
that it is logical to assume that some of the same folks will look to 
caseworkers in all agencies for help in this second transition from 
fighting the war to becoming civilians again. Is there a typical or 
normal veteran? I believe that we should not try to classify veterans 
but treat them as individuals, realizing that when they return they 
will be the same individuals as when they were inducted, conditioned, 
however, in varying degrees by their war experience, the length of 
time they have been away, whether or not they have been overseas, 
the theatre of war in which they have served and what they have seen 
of actual combat. I have talked with the case supervisors in the St. 
Louis family agencies and all are ready to give their help to the vet- 
eran in his readjustment but up to the present they have had very 
few veterans come to them for service. In Home Service our monthly 
veteran case load for the past twelve months has been between 1300 
and 1800 cases. About 200 to 300 are veterans of other wars. Case- 
workers in all agencies must know the legal benefits and resources 
available for the veteran in order to help him in all areas of His prob- 
lem. It is not easy for anyone to talk about their personal difficulties. 
A discussion on claims or insurance information gives the veteran 
a concrete beginning and in the ensuing discussion he comes to realize 
that the worker is friendly and well-informed and this helps him to 
go on to underlying material that is the real source of his difficulty. 
We know the veteran will be influenced by his war experience. 
While it may sound like over-simplification, it is well to remember 
that every separation implies change and readjustment. War separa- 
tion from home for the boy and young man comes during the years 
of post-adolescence which in itself contains physical and psycho- 
logical change. Let us review some of his experiences in military 
service that tend to alter him. 
The soldier has not lived in a family group. He has lived almost 
entirely with men, large groups of them. He has had little choice of 
anything, the clothes he wears, his recreation, his food, everything 
has been planned for him. Although he had tired of this endless regi- 
mentation, he could do nothing about it. He has been exposed to 
intolerable conditions out of the control of human beings, such as the 
jungle, the swamp, the monsoons, the Arctic cold, the endless hours 
of work. 
His perspective of what goes on back home is also altered. The first 
impression of one marine pilot written to a friend when he reached 
47 South Pacific, shows how fast a perspective can change. In his first 
letter he said, ‘ ‘ Chicago is far away. All American girls are beautiful. 
You have to take a bath five times a day to keep clean. The war will 
be over in a year. ’ ’ Six weeks later he wrote ‘ ‘ Chicago is on another 
planet. The war will be over in two years. American girls are still 
beautiful. You have to wash your hands at least once a day to keep 
clean,” But after six long months of active combat flying this was 
his comment: ‘ ‘ The war will not be over for seven years. If you don’t 
shave your razor blades stay sharp. Native girls are beautiful, too. 
Chicago is a myth.” 
The soldier has been judged generally not as an individual human 
being but rather as a small part of his total unit. He has built up 
new loyalties to this unit of his which, in the stress of combat, has 
meant almost more than anything at home. The same feeling of loyalty 
has caused many veterans already returned from the battlefield to 
have a feeling of guilt about those whom they have left in the combat 
area. We may say that the soldier has given up civilian life but I 
am afraid that seeing the destruction, the human suffering, and having 
participated in actual killing, he has wondered sometimes whether 
it isn’t civilization that has given up. 
The Eed Cross workers from overseas tell us that the boys want 
to be sure that the girls they left behind are still waiting; that their 
old jobs, or better ones, will be a reality when they return; that they 
want a home of their own, regular work and leisure time for play. 
They are concerned about planning for their children, many of whom 
they have not yet seen. Yes, they hope for a good peace. 
And now that we have reviewed some of the changes that have 
affected the man and his family, we will discuss the veteran’s return. 
Many problems in readjustment that confront the discharged man 
stem from realignments in the family group rather than from him 
alone. 
The following case illustrates a different adjustment of the veteran 
whose home had changed during his absence. Mrs. G. came to secure 
information about her husband’s military record. She expressed con- 
cern because he was acting strangely in the home although he had 
been back for five weeks. As she talked with the worker, she shifted 
her emphasis and said “ Maybe my husband has not changed much, 
perhaps I am different.” Mr. G. has a physical disability, an injury 
to his right leg, but Mrs. G. says he does not seem too worried about 
it, and does not have much difficulty in getting around. She wondered 
whether we could talk with him and find out what was making him 
so distant. Mr. G. came in later, telling us that Mrs. G. had felt 
that we could answer questions about his pension. The same worker 
talked with Mr. G. and was frank in letting him know that his wife 
was concerned about him. He picked up this point and said that 
it was not his wife but he who should be concerned, that he was a 
stranger in his own home, his wife is different, the whole household 
was changed; then he told the whole story. This couple had married 
in 1932. During the depression years, through no fault of his, employ- 
ment was not too stable and he had provided a meagre living for his 
48 wife and three boys. He had enlisted early in the war with a com- 
fortable feeling that the $120.00 monthly allowance would be steady 
and that his wife could manage on it. She had never worked and 
he had not thought of her taking employment. However, Mrs. G. 
took a short training course and secured employment in a war plant. 
She made provision for the children, having a relative come to the 
home to care for them. She earned $45.00 a week and with her allow- 
ance has furnished their flat attractively for the first time, and has 
invested over $1,000.00 in war bonds. Mr. G: knows that his wife 
expected him to be enthusiastic about all she had done but somehow 
he could not, he liked the old way best. The worker has referred him 
for employment counseling and placement and has tried to give him 
reassurance that his future earnings can be adequate to care for his 
family. The worker is continuing to see Mrs. G., helping her to think 
through what she really wants, and evaluating what her continuing 
work may mean for all of them. Although the children have had 
good physical care, they have seen very little of their mother and 
this has troubled her. She has been helped to talk about the relation- 
ship within the home before Mr. G. enlisted and has been able to 
bring out that even though they had less money to manage on then, 
they were all happier. She has not yet given up her job but she has 
talked with Mr. G. about doing it and with this reassurance he has 
accepted the plan of her continuing employment until he has security 
in new employment of his own. This case shows the adjustment 
worked out by a man and his wife during their enforced separation. 
It heightened her independence, which had been largely dormant dur- 
ing her married life, and this changed his former wife into a new 
wife with whom the veteran was not comfortable. His wish was for 
her to return to her dependent role; thus leaving his ego dominant 
over hers. If she can trade her financial success for the security of 
being simply a wife and mother, the marriage will be preserved on 
his terms but the memory of her capacity to fend for herself in the 
economic world will perhaps not be easily forgotten, and it may rise 
up again in the years ahead. The next ease illustrates the added 
responsibility of a veteran in service a comparatively short time and 
upset by his experiences, returning to an ill wife and a baby born 
during his absence. It also shows how the initial verbalized request 
to us was for claims service but that a greater problem lay beneath. 
After Mr. L. had been in service seven months we were asked to 
verify the need of an emergency furlough because of a serious com- 
plication of his wife’s confinement. After ten months of service he 
was discharged with a diagnosis of psychoneurosis, anxiety state. He 
had fainted several times on hikes and in the barracks. He suffered 
pain around his heart, and complained of headache and exhaustion. 
(Mr. L. had filed no claim at time of discharge as he expected to 
return to his former job which he did.) Not until nine months after 
discharge did he come to us to file a claim. He looked ill and irritable 
and discouraged. In discussing his condition with him, the worker 
learned that he had been extremely disturbed at the age of 13 when 
his father died. At that time he developed fainting spells which later 
disappeared. When he was inducted he had no actual symptoms but 
49 said he did not feel strong. In addition to his worry about himself, 
he told about the ill health of his wife and baby. The worker inter- 
preted psychiatric care to him, and he accepted a referral. A visit 
was made to the home to discuss medical care with Mrs. L. as the 
worker believed Mr. L. to be too upset to discuss anything but his own 
condition. The wife responded to the worker by insisting that she 
could not be concerned about her health or care for the baby until 
Mr. L. had been treated. The worker gave her some understanding 
of what was involved in her husband’s psychiatric care. The psychia- 
trist reported to the worker that Mr. L. had an anxiety neurosis and 
that there was a possibility of epilepsy. It was agreed that the psy- 
chiatrist would work with Mr. L. and the worker would continue to 
work with his wife. The possibility of epilepsy was not to be dis- 
cussed with Mr. L. who was responding well to medication and 
psychotherapy. With his improvement, Mrs. L. was able to accept 
medical care for herself but when surgery was thought necessary for 
her, the veteran suffered a severe anxiety attack at his work. The 
psychiatrist helped the veteran through this upset and interpreted his 
condition to his employer assuring him that Mr. L. was able to do 
everything but drive the company truck. Surgery was later ruled 
out for Mrs. L. and her husband’s condition improved. She was then 
able to plan routine examinations for the baby. Mrs. L. and the baby 
are now in good health and Mr. L. is no longer seeing the psychiatrist, 
but knows that, if needed, further care is available. 
The L. case illustrates the close ties between members of a family 
which bind them into a single unit, and the inability of the worker 
to be helpful to any one person in the family without helping the 
others also. This is, I suppose, truly family case work for the worker 
had to work with all members of the family rather than relating to 
one member only. 
Another problem causing concern is the marriages contracted just 
prior to the man’s leaving for service. Many of these are not stable 
unions to come back to and many men must accept that they will 
have to get acquainted all over again with the girls who are their 
wives. Every day we have inquiries concerning divorce and separa- 
tions. Reality is hard to face sometimes as in the case of the wife 
who came with a letter from her husband who is a technical sergeant 
overseas. His request for a divorce was interpreted by his wife as 
proof that he was mentally upset. She knew that he had been sent 
back to a rest camp after combat and this verified her fears in her 
own thinking. In the report from the overseas worker we learned that 
he had returned to duty after a planned rest period and that the 
overseas worker felt he had given the question of divorce very serious 
thought and that his decision from all of his discussions, seemed 
logical. He had married just before he entered service. After a year 
in the Aleutians he came home on furlough for another overseas 
assignment. At this time he realized that he and his wife had grown 
far apart and that living together would be an impossibility. He did 
not, however, discuss his feelings with his wife, saying it was too 
difficult as he sensed how unaware she was of any change in his 
50 feeling. He verbalized quite freely that his experiences away from 
home and in combat matured him and that his wife was not the com- 
panion he now wanted and needed. He believed that he was consid- 
ering his wife quite as well as himself in making this decision. 
The reality of this kind of situation is difficult to face while the 
husband is away, but the worker is attempting to have them both do 
a bit more through direct correspondence. Are we going to find at 
the time of discharge when the veteran is worn and emotionally 
exhausted that he returns to momentous decisions? Is temporary rest 
important? This cannot be answered generally as rest means such 
different things to different people. Again, let us stress the need to 
individualize what each veteran needs, using our skills in evaluating 
his needs and not convincing him of any one direction. 
Some boys return to the standards of their families and com- 
munities and feel that they have to live up to them rather than 
think through for themselves what is best for them. This creates con- 
flict in them and in their families and friends when they fail. This is 
illustrated by a veteran who was discharged because of an injury, 
crippling one foot. He was nineteen years old and his home was in a 
small town. He tried to go back to his usual way of living, as this 
seemed to be what everybody expected him to do. He got his old job 
back in the factory. He knew this meant standing on his feet all 
day and he questioned his ability to do it but if everyone else thought 
that he could manage, he would try. His foot gave him trouble and 
he had to give up. His parents then bought him a truck on a milk 
route but he soon found that loading and unloading was more than 
he could manage physically. He tried one thing after another in this 
small community knowing that his family wanted him to remain there 
and finally, in despair, he came to St. Louis bringing his wife with 
him. Here, not knowing where to go or what to do, he found himself 
drifting from one job to another, all totally unsuited to his needs. 
Up to this time he had been unwilling to file a claim for pension 
because this would stamp him in his own mind as a disabled veteran. 
Now a married man without a job but with responsibility for a wife 
who was pregnant, he finally went in desperation to Veterans Admin- 
istration to file for a claim and from there he was referred to us to 
discuss his other problems. He came discouraged and defeated because 
of the emotionally charged meaning that filing a claim had for him. 
He was given an opportunity to talk about it, to express his fears 
for his own future and that of his wife and family. What he wanted 
more than anything else was a decent job. He was referred to the 
United States Employment Service for discussion of the kind of work 
that he could best do, and his readjustment allowance was figured for 
him there. In the meantime we gave financial assistance until he got 
work on the kind of job he could best do. Now he is able to accept 
the pension, not as a threat but as a means of supplementing his inade- 
quate earning capacity; further plans are being discussed with him 
in regard to vocational training which he can now accept. 
This boy had to redo his thinking and planning for himself and 
his newly acquired family. He has had to grow to sufficient maturity 
51 to stand up against the dictates of his family and home town in the 
struggle of finding himself, utilizing the support of a caseworker 
in doing it. 
And what about the young veteran who returns to a home sternly 
disciplined by the father who continues to treat him not as a veteran 
but still as an adolescent boy. The parents of one such veteran came 
to us because they were worried about John’s behavior. The father 
expected his son to be nervous but, to use his words, he was shocked 
at what he saw at the way he acted. When John was upbraided by 
his father for smoking so much, he simply stared at his father and 
continued to smoke, in contrast to the complete obedience he had 
always given his father prior to military service. His parents could 
not accept the fact that the boy had learned to drink and that he 
was more enthusiastic now about a highball than the special dessert 
his mother had cooked for him. Both the veteran and his parents 
have to work through these readjustments. When the veteran has 
already redone his values before he returns home, his parents are 
left to make their own adjustments as best they can to his emanci- 
pation. We, as caseworkers, have to appreciate this struggle and sup- 
port the parents in permitting the emancipation. 
Then, there is the veteran who returns home to find that his younger 
brother is earning a higher wage than that which the veteran had 
ever earned. We have had many instances where the veteran comes 
to us for some kind of technical help and makes the rather flippant 
statement, “what good am I, my kid brother is earning more than 
I ever did? “These comments may stem from deeper ties and antag- 
onisms between family members, and sometimes the worker is drawn 
in to handling them or referring them elsewhere for service. Because 
the number of cases coming to us during the war years is very great, 
greater than available staff can meet, she may attempt instead to be 
supportive to the veteran in his battle for self feeling, and to inter- 
pret to him some of the objective factors involved in the situation. 
The worker may interpret that the inflation in wage raise took place 
after he left for military service. She may point out that the training 
opportunities available to him under new federal legislation will equip 
him to be one of the more stable workers for future employment. Good 
employment counseling helps him to evaluate his ability and an inter- 
est in the training program begins to take shape. For the older veteran 
who returned to find that a son or daughter has as well paid employ- 
ment as he previously had, the problem is intensified. Perhaps he 
is not a good training investment and his past employment skills are 
not too strong for competition in the labor market. The worker tries 
to help him accept the success of his children not as a competition 
in relation to himself but rather as a result of better opportunities 
he has made possible for his children thus making him a part of 
their success. 
We have come to realize that we cannot handle all of the intensive 
problems that are presented to us. Too large a section of the com- 
munity seeks us out with all manner of requests, for the Red Cross, 
in the eyes of the community, is frequently confused with the Military 
52 rather than seen as working in conjunction with the military. "We 
thus face all sorts of problems behind and beyond the verbal request 
which the applicant presents to the intake worker. We cannot open 
up all of them for treatment, nor does the applicant want us to. Our 
workers have to be diagnostically alert, they have to be quick to see 
and to sense both the total problem insofar as she can grasp it during 
the initial intake interview and what part of it is best to take on for 
service by our own agency or by referral to another agency. In many 
cases we give only a counseling service related to the request that 
brought the applicant in, and leave untouched other facets of the 
total problem. We feel it is better to leave them untouched when the 
social and psychiatric services of our agency and the community are 
not broad enough to meet them adequately. Our caseload has taught 
us that life problems tend to lie behind most applicants, regardless 
of their verbal request but that our seeing them does not mean that 
we must handle them. 
We find that some of the young group discharged because they 
were not good material for military service are unwilling to return 
to their own civilian jobs in their home towns. They stress wanting 
war work in other communities and we realize that they are delaying 
the reality of a full return to civilian life. They do not want to be 
seen in their home community as veterans while the war is still on. 
We believe that many are continuing to search adventure similar to 
what they expected to find in military service. This is not the pattern 
of all as was brought out by a counselor at a separation center, who 
told me that it was fairly usual to find that the boys returning to 
the rural areas were anxious to get back to the farm in spite of the 
fact that they had seen the bright lights. 
Because I believe that the caseworkers should be supportive to the 
troubled veteran who cannot cope with his problems, I want casework 
service to be available to a veteran wherever he happens to be. It is 
the caseworker in whatever agency she may be employed, who can 
make available to the veteran all the government and community 
resources. The following cases are examples of service that can be 
given by any casework agency. One veteran, a neuropsychiatric dis- 
charge who returned home recently, found that his wife had been inter- 
ested in another man. He had had long months of overseas service and 
prior to his discharge had had three months of psychiatric care. He 
had cheered himself through dull hours of military life by thinking 
of his return home. We could understand his upset when his first 
greeting from his wife was a cold statement that she was in love with 
another man and wanted a divorce. Psychiatric care was available 
for him and he accepted referral but later he returned to the social 
worker explaining that, though he knew the psychiatrist could help 
him, he was leaving town because he believed his desire to kill was 
so strong that it made him afraid to remain in the same town with 
the two persons he felt had shattered his chance for readjustment. 
He assured the caseworker that he would seek psychiatric care wher- 
ever he settled as he was confident of the skill of the psychiatrist, and 
knew that he needed this help. 
53 We also had a veteran from another city who had experienced a 
somewhat different welcome home but one that upset him quite as 
much. He had, not the desire to kill, but the desire to separate him- 
self entirely from his former personal life, as he was firmly convinced 
that his wife was now a part of a better social group which she wanted 
but which did not include him. He had deeded over their property 
to her and for the time being had said, “farewell.” Our worker 
talked with him about his plan and helped get him to talk. Employ- 
ment was discussed and his former experiences indicated that he 
should not have much difficulty in being quickly placed. He had 
very little money but with assurance from the worker that we could 
give him financial assistance, he became freer in talking about employ- 
ment. The second time the worker talked with him she questioned 
whether, if his employment became permanent and his earnings ade- 
quate, he might not think of writing to his wife, suggesting that she 
join him here. He seemed to be reassured by the worker’s confidence 
and said that he had been wondering this very same thing himself. 
Perhaps he had been too hasty. Getting along together in St. Louis 
might be easier for him where he would not be confronted by his 
wife’s friends. 
I have rambled in giving a picture of problems to the first transition 
from home to military life; some of the changes taking place during 
this separation for both the man and his family, and some of our 
observations when the man returns home. None of these presenting 
problems are new, they have been experienced by many who have 
never been to war. How the veteran will adjust to his individual 
problem will depend strongly upon the degree of security he has had 
prior to induction, and how he has always adjusted when threatened 
by change. 
The loneliness facing some veterans with all of their friends still 
in service will not be so great a problem when total demobilization 
comes. The need to wear the lapel button showing that they have 
served will disappear. The embarrassment of being disabled will be- 
come less as more and more of our disabled boys return. I believe 
most of our veterans will return to civilian life with the same strength 
and courage that they faced the war, and if members of the family 
group, and citizens of the community, treat them with understanding 
rather than sympathy, most of them will readjust without special 
help. We must not think of them as a group apart but treat them 
rather as individuals they are. Industry must have jobs for all, not 
just for the veteran group, if we are to have good living. 
Many of us question the adequacy of the resources of our com- 
munities in meeting the needs when demobilization takes place. If 
we are to meet the accelerated demand for social services, all social 
agencies must be realistic about increasing staff and for obtaining 
further professional training, including in-service training programs, 
so that we will be equipped to be helpful to the returning veteran. 
The problem faces the total community and not any one agency alone. 
54 Discussion of Marguerite G. Nordman’s Paper 
THERESE BENEDEK, M.D. 
I am very pleased to discuss this interesting paper, in which a 
great variety of case material was presented to demonstrate several 
psychological problems which the veteran and his family have to over- 
come while they learn to live together after a long, strenuous period 
of separation. Since the paper deals mainly with case material it amply 
demonstrates the point which the speaker wants to emphasize, namely, 
that “we must not think of the veterans as a group apart hut treat 
them rather as the individuals they are.” This thesis is certainly true 
as far as we deal with those who become 11 cases ’ ’, in the field of social 
work, medicine, or psychiatry. 
Chicago Institute for Psychoanalysis 
The speaker also correctly expanded her thesis showing that in 
meeting a “case” on the level of psychiatry we usually have to deal, 
not only with his own problem, but also with the problems of the 
other members of his family. This can be proven with innumerable 
examples which show that the problem of the returning soldier is 
often, although not in every case, not only his problem but also the 
result of problems existing in his family. Whether the returnee is 
a father or a son, whether he has to “adjust” to his wife and chil- 
dren, or has to become himself a “son” again, the problems which 
develop are not his alone. I do not feel that I should add to the 
variations of the disturbances of emotional interrelationships in the 
family. 
However, I should like to mention some of the basic causes which 
trouble us now when we look for ways and means to overcome the 
“strangeness” which develops within the family. Looking for the 
causes of this we have to go further and realize that the problem of 
the returning soldier is partially created by the civilian society which 
is reluctant to change. Actually, we, our society, is reluctant to admit 
and afraid to recognize that the habits and values of 12-15 million 
soldiers, acquired by such costly and intensive experiences as the war, 
will have an effect on our society, on our life, habits, mores, values. 
Yes, we talk about the “returning soldier becoming a civilian” as 
we would expect our society, large or small units of it, to dictate to 
the soldier to be as he was before he left. We behave like governesses, 
representing the standard of good behavior—mental health—good 
adjustment—or however we wish to call it—like governesses worrying 
whether the boys will be of good or bad behavior—whether we 
will be disturbed by them or not. We only rarely think that the 
society as a whole will change, or will be changed by integrating the 
masses of the returning soldiers. 
These ideas came to my mind especially clearly while reading the 
case material of this paper. I refer now to one point as an example. 
You remember this: one returning soldier is embittered because of 
his brother or sister earning more money than the returnee; the case 
worker has to comfort him; or another one who is a father and his 
children grew independent; he has to be comforted since his children 
55 became better than he was. The explanation of the realities of earning 
capacities won’t helpl I mean no criticism now of the individual case 
work. Even the recovering of the roots of competition, the competition 
between the members of the family will not help to solve the problem. 
The help must he collective! It has to originate in the confidence 
and conviction of the veteran that his service and his achievement 
was such that it is not measured -alone by dollars and cents in his 
own family and in his own community. 
You may answer to that: he, himself, does it; he evaluates himself 
by this comparison. This is however a faulty conclusion. The soldier 
evaluating himself in this way is a reflection of the values of this 
society in which the gap between army and civilian life is tremendous 
and not yet bridged in any way. 
The soldiers who return now, do return “alone”; disabled for 
physical or emotional reasons, they come back without support of 
their own kind. In order not to be so alone they feel the need and 
they are under pressure to become civilians, as they were before they 
left. Thus they have to repress the experience of soldiering instead 
of integrating it; doing so, they measure themselves by the values of 
civilian society and they feel then that they lost years of their lives— 
they feel inferior. 
When millions of soldiers come back, their collective attitudes may 
be different. How different it will be depends on our readiness to 
recognize that being in the army, serving as a soldier, is not a chance 
bad luck, hut an integrating factor of our national and social life; 
then the “strangeness” which we emphasize now so much will dimin- 
ish; the emotional exchange between civilian and soldier will become 
easier and the soldiers won’t need to look upon the years of soldiering 
as lost; their habits and ways, formed by their experiences, will not 
appear so threatening; it will belong to us; it will enrich our lives as 
slang enriches the language—because it is a living contribution. It 
will not be Victorian—this is certain, anyway. 
56 The Rebirth of a Civilian 
Medical Director, The National Committee for Mental Hygiene, New York, N. Y, 
GEORGE S. STEVENSON, M.D. 
Yon have heard and read much about the veteran, the conditions 
through which he has passed that help to make him a veteran, the 
problems that attended his conversion into a soldier and the problems 
permeating his family and his relation to it. But the veteran lives 
not only in a household. Much of his time is spent also in a com- 
munity, and the way he gets along in that community and the way in 
which he resumes a civilian role are determined to a great extent by 
his attitude toward the community and his ideas of its composition 
and organization and conversely its attitudes and ideas toward a vet- 
eran or more generally toward any person who has not become thor- 
oughly integrated into its life. The community’s attitude is then a 
composite of the prejudices against the outlander and the son who 
has left its bed and board and the attitudes toward one who is very 
much beloved. It bestows much upon its returning son without 
expecting a reward, but at the same time it does expect a response 
from him that falls within the ideas of what a proper response should 
be. It expects him to appreciate its gestures and to take his place in 
its stream of life. Out of the expectations on the part of either party 
may come great disappointments. 
It must be remembered that by design the man in the service is 
made as similar as possible to other men in the service and for that 
reason the usual superficial evidences of class distinction that appear 
in civilian life are obscured and consequently these distinctions emerge 
more slowly in the forces; the emphasis on rank, while to a degree 
coinciding with economic and social distinctions in civilian life, do 
not do so completely. It is to be expected, therefore, that with the 
return of a veteran to his community, especially after a long war, 
these civilian signs of class distinction may have been forgotten, lost 
all their value and he may not readily subordinate himself to them 
as such. He may handle such distinctions as where he lives, how he 
dresses, with whom he associates, etc., rather ruthlessly and therefore 
the community may show reactions, if not antagonisms, that may inter- 
fere with his smooth merging into the civilian stream. 
The problems attending the soldier on induction, such as the pro- 
tests against the loss of individuality, has acquainted us with the 
seriousness of cultural change and we are thereby warned that the 
reconversion to civilian, to the strictures of community life which dif- 
fer from those of military life, may be attended with equal disturb- 
ance. To the civilian the community is a distinctly supporting struc- 
ture. Without his knowing it, it guides and even constrains him in 
innumerable ways in everyday life. It helps him weather many entice- 
ments. His job, his family and his neighbors often make the differ- 
ence between his adhering to the modes of the group and his deviating 
from them. 
Eead before The Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene, March 9, 1945. 
57 On entering military life this supporting structure is greatly weak- 
ened and the more he has been dependent upon it in the past the more 
unpredictable becomes his behavior following its loss. This is not a 
new phenomenon. Tourists, particularly ocean travelers, have been 
recognized as frequently pursuing a different code when on the high 
seas, and the entrance of women into the armed services is a matter 
of interest because their dependence on these cultural girdles is greater 
and their absence is apt to be correspondingly more embarrassing 
even with the normal person. I want again and again to stress the 
point that the behavior of the veteran is as a rule that for a normal 
person under the conditions. By scanning the psychiatric case we 
get a magnified picture of the normal. Let me quote from the Army 
itself. 
“Following are factors common to the neurotic soldier and the 
technique used to meet these problems: 
1. The soldier’s presence in the Army, away from home, results 
in a feeling of helplessness. He is then made aware that in reality 
his presence in the Army means that he is protecting his home 
and family from the enemy and that millions of others have the 
same common purpose. This point of view often bolsters his 
weakened ego. 
2. The director and his assistants endeavor to have the soldier 
articulate his fears, hostility, and guilt feelings, thereby releasing 
his tension. When this is accomplished, his innate energy is free 
to concentrate on the important tasks at hand. 
3. The soldier is assured that his feelings and problems are 
understood. When the interview is over, he must go away with 
the conviction that his visit has been worth while and that he 
has received help. 
4. We try to handle the problems which confronts every soldier 
—the threat of the unknown. This threat is reduced by dissipat- 
ing the exaggerated phantasizing of his dangers. We assist him 
to come to grips with his anxiety, thus breaking it down bit by 
bit and saving him from being overwhelmed by the immensity 
of the unknown. 
5. Another common problem is the neurotic soldier’s feeling 
of no longer being an individual, and, finding that he must relin- 
quish his civilian habits, he must sublimate his individual ener- 
gies to the common purpose of building up a military team so 
that in the long run we shall preserve our individualism and 
freedom of action. 
6. The director and his assistants help the soldier cultivate 
new object relationships as a substitute for family ties. Through- 
out the process of psychotherapy, the soldier is constantly re- 
minded of the director’s interest in him, while the assistants 
constantly keep the director informed of new developments in 
58 the soldier. The director is used symbolically as ‘all-knowing, 
kind, and all-protecting.’ 
These are mostly magnifications of normal relationships. 
These departures from the home community into the new world 
of military life are attended with a great feeling of novelty. Every- 
thing is new. But the return to the community carries with it not so 
much a feeling of novelty as a feeling of unreality. It is like a dream 
that has been dreamt before. It is familiar and yet in many ways 
it is strange. One can best sense this feeling of return if he has had 
occasion years later to return to the town in which he was reared. 
It is not entirely clear to one returning to a community after an 
absence whether the change is within himself or within the community, 
and until he becomes accustomed to this shift he will find himself 
making faux pas and groping about in bewildered fashion and so 
may the community. His problem is much more confusing than enter- 
ing an entirely strange community for there he knows that the 
unfamiliarity is real. 
On re-entering his home community he finds that he cannot slip 
back into that relation between himself, his family and neighbors that 
existed before he went away as if it were yesterday. He notices the 
difference at once. He appreciates that the community has changed 
in many respects. It is not so conscious of these changes that have 
come along one by one over a long period of time. For those that 
have left and returned these changes in the community come in con- 
centrated form. This person has died, that one has married, there 
is a new baby here and changes have taken place in that store or farm, 
“kids” have sprouted into young men and women. The returned 
son may also come to a similar sudden understanding of the extent 
to which he himself has grown, for he now has a familiar base line, 
his community, his parents, his clothes and many other things of a 
pre-service sort against which to evaluate himself as he is now. He 
had no such base line when he was in the service, for the tendency 
there was for everything to be made uniform. Even in his furloughs 
he has been a transient and the recipient and the giver of attention 
that exceed that which is characteristic of everyday life in his com- 
munity. In the service he lacks a base line against which to judge 
his growth, his buddies have grown and he with them. It is a growth 
that started the day that he entered. Within two days he had come 
to be an old soldier razzing the novices just coming in. 
Let me call attention to the fact that to a very great extent the 
veteran will not be returning to a community or neighborhood that 
is in itself a fairly settled entity. Those who have not been in the 
service have too frequently moved about and many will return home, 
themselves having to go through the same adjustments as the veteran 
with no better perspective, possibly no job, possibly actually com- 
peting with the veteran, with no security and possibly as much out 
I“Adjusting the Emotionally Unstable Soldier”, Major S. A. Sandler and 
Captain S. E. Eotman. The Bulletin of the U. S. Army Medical Department, 
No. 85, February 1945, p. 105-106. 
59 of touch with the community as the returning soldier and not too 
ready to take on the burdens of others who are likewise attempting 
to get resettled. Some of these dislocated families will not return 
home and so they will leave a gap in the home community to which 
the veteran returns or if he be a member of such a family they may 
attract him to a strange location where he cannot expect to be any- 
thing more of interest to the natives than an unknown veteran. He 
will have no background of being a neighbor, a school chum or pupil, 
a church goer, a delivery boy or even a nuisance. He will not have 
belonged to any of the clubs or any of the various activities providing 
a foundation for re-establishment in the community. 
It is easy to list the things that a veteran says he wants when he 
comes back. About 75% want vocational help, 8% medical, 6% edu- 
cational, 4% domestic and 3% financial. But it is impossible to make 
a descriptive statement about the new veteran’s emotional interchange 
with his community without being so broad as to be meaningless or 
so pointed as to be largely wrong, for it is a matter of individual 
reaction. But what is needed is not a specific statement of this sort. 
We need rather to know that he is saying to himself “Where am I? 
I will have to feel around in this situation for a while in order to 
get my bearings”. If we are to know how to meet him in a way that 
is most comfortable to him, that is, in a way that is most conducive 
to his resumption of civilian living, it is necessary to pull away the 
curtain and take some note of what actually goes on between two 
people more or less unacquainted with each other who come together. 
I’ll do that shortly. 
The attitudes and ideas held by the veteran and the community 
with respect to each other are as diverse as black and white and range 
from zero to the firmest conviction and deepest intensity. To expect 
the community to fathom these elements of thinking and feeling is to 
put upon it a task of psychological probing that is both difficult and 
dangerous. There are of course certain misconceptions that should be 
continuously counteracted. If anyone has the idea that the existence 
of psychological changes in the veteran implies something dire or 
abnormal that idea needs correction. If anyone has the idea that a 
veteran discharged for a psyehoneurotic reaction is of doubtful sanity 
that persons needs to understand that everyone has his sensitivities; 
he would not be much good without them, and that sometimes these 
sensitivities interfere with doing certain types of work. If it happens 
to be the work of soldiering then that man is most likely suitable 
for some other job. If it happens to be that he is temperamentally 
unfit to be a high pressure salesman he may be a superb librarian or 
laboratory technician. The chances involved in hiring a veteran who 
showed a neuropsychiatric reaction to soldiering are probably less 
than those involved in picking personnel at random from the general 
population, for the veteran has been through several screening pro- 
cesses and a very severe testing process and the serious deviants have 
already been sorted out. Employers please copy! 
I hesitate to see the term “psyehoneurosis” applied to a person 
for it carries the implication that under all conditions he carries this 
60 disability with him. If we rather refer to a person showing a psycho- 
neurotic reaction we imply that he is behaving with respect to some- 
thing on the outside and that if this something on the outside is 
changed his reaction may no longer be psychoneurotic. Let me give 
you a case in point. 
This is the story of an employee of several years of service in the 
post office. He greatly disliked his job because of its routine nature 
quite divorced from the lives of people. He was more interested in 
people than things, but he handled his dislike of his job in a very 
mature way. He held on to his job and in keeping with this peculiar 
interest or sensitivity he took didactic courses for the field of social 
work at a nearby university, in anticipation of entering that field. 
He enjoyed his studies immensely and applied himself to them con- 
sistently and with diligence. Then he was drafted. In the course 
of his basic training it was made very vivid to him in rifle practice 
that he was shooting Japs and Germans. This touched upon the same 
sensitivity that gave him so much satisfaction in his college work and 
that caused boredom in his job, but it touched on it in a negative 
sense. It created an anxiety. It disturbed his appetite and preoccu- 
pied him hour in and hour out and between these disturbances he 
became so ineffective that he had to be discharged, diagnosed ‘ ‘ psycho- 
neurosis. ’ ’ He returned to his job in the post office and to his classes 
and as far as could be discerned he got along as well as before he 
went into the Army. Nothing in his everyday life presented a critical 
issue to him excepting this diagnosis. Perhaps by intensive psycho- 
therapy he could have been rid of this sensitivity, but he did not 
want that. He really enjoyed his sensitivity when it led him into 
constructive channels. He was quite easily reassured that unless some 
more serious evidences of maladjustment in his everyday life arose 
he had best be content with an understanding of the facts that lay 
behind his diagnosis. 
For convenience I like to think of psychoneuroses as being, on the 
one hand, acute and on the other hand protracted or chronic. The 
acute ease is the sort that we find in the battle casualty in which the 
disturbing experience comes in very concentrated form to a not overly 
sensitive person. The protracted case is, on the other hand, a succes- 
sion and an accumulation of acute episodes usually much less violently 
disturbing. They have occurred over a long period of time, such as 
living years on end with the hostility of a parent. Sometimes these 
sensitivities that are long enduring are known to everyone with whom 
the man is acquainted and they handicap him again and again in his 
work. His reaction then is severly psychoneurotie. Sometimes they 
are known only to the man himself or perhaps to his physician. Then 
they are mildly psychoneurotic; and sometimes they are not even 
known to him excepting as, in the case of our friend from the post 
office, special sensitivities like boredom and this I would speak of as 
a sub-clinical case prior to induction. 
It is of course a truism that the fiction that one reads or for that 
matter any literature and even the words one uses in everyday experi- 
ence derive their meanings in great part from his own life experiences 
61 and we know very well how difficult exact communication is. It is 
true also that the experiences in life that one goes through have this 
personal meaning—whether it be trouble in one’s family, the occur- 
rence of tuberculosis, or the amputation of a limb; or on the other 
hand a period in the armed services or return to one’s home. Experi- 
ences of this sort that befall an individual, quite aside of his own 
conscious making, tend to become the focus of anxieties growing out 
of a great many vagus dissatisfactions and uncertainties about life. 
The grouch becomes grouchy about things that have nothing to do 
with his dissatisfaction. It is the continuous surprise of those who 
deal with people upon whom very dire events have fallen that they 
take them with so little emotional disturbance. It is because these 
things absorb his worry, yet give it concreteness which is much less 
painful. This is the case of the battle casualty and with those who 
meet trials in civilian life. There is no difference. Each values these 
life experiences in his own terms. The great danger is that we may 
expect the other fellow to react to an experience the way we would 
react to it and of course if we do this and do not give him a chance 
to feel about it and deal with it in his own way we are not being 
very helpful. 
But the community must meet the veteran willy-nilly and talk with 
him. It needs to have confidence that there are Avithin human beings 
reparative processes. Its job is to give these processes a chance to 
operate and not to feel compelled to carry out a reconstruction job 
itself. If it has this confidence in the veteran’s reparative processes 
it will not be constrained to ferret out the veteran’s private affairs 
and if the veteran needs help he will under those conditions be readier 
to seek it and receive it than if he is put under pressure to do so. 
I am constrained at this point to call attention to some of the excellent 
planning undertaken by the National JeAvish Welfare Board designed 
to develop a “climate of warm understanding” in the community. 
And so the community has something valuable to give its returning 
veterans in the spirit and nature of its reception. In its simplest 
terms this reduces itself to a personal contact betAveen tAvo people—a 
veteran and another civilian—a contact that has special value in cer- 
tain circumstances because it is uncomplicated with the emotional 
elements such as exist in a family. The civilian and the veteran meet. 
What occurs may encourage the veteran to adhere to a protective 
veteran ideology and to avoid the hazards of civilian life, or it may 
encourage him to venture back into a civilian status and find his place 
in work or in other aspects of peace time community life. What hap- 
pens between the veteran and civilian is simply a corollary of what 
happens Avhenever two people come together. The components of this 
meeting of veteran and civilian are essentially those of contact be- 
tween strangers. In the beginning the relationship betAveen them is 
one of exploration and each tries to know the other. There are some 
handy tools that are called on to further this getting acquainted. 
If in such a situation I am simply a civilian I can converse feel- 
ingly even though superficially. If I am a doctor, laAvyer, minister, 
teacher, social worker, nurse or some other professional person to 
62 whom people come with their problems, I look a little more deeply 
into what is going on. I ask myself “What is this man trying to say 
to me? How can I help him to express what he is trying to say?” 
I have a consciousness of the value of talk. I realize that it helps 
the man to organize things that he has otherwise merely turned over 
in his mind. I realize that it gives him an opportunity to listen to 
his own formulations, to deal with them critically and see them as he 
has never seen them before. I realize that this is the way that atti- 
tudes mature and change, and that exhortations to people to take 
certain attitudes such as “Do not worry”, “Be calm”, etc., are far 
from being helpful, and tend to make him feel more confused because 
he is unable to carry out this advice given by apparently informed 
and disinterested persons. If I am professional I realize that through 
such verbalizations a man comes to discover steps ahead that he 
would not have discovered otherwise even though I have not sug- 
gested them, and that he is then capable of starting the self-reparative 
processes into motion. In all of this he has a feeling of social support 
because I am in on it. 
Even if not professional I can realize in a more general way that 
customs of politeness and courtesy are generalized ways created by 
long human experience—safe ways of meeting other people whose 
peculiarities we do not know and on whose toes we might step, or 
perhaps what is even more important of protecting ourselves against 
retaliation that would be apt to arise from such missteps. Note the 
extreme politeness and formality of very sensitive peoples. 
In conversation with a more or less unknown person (let us not 
burden it by calling it an interview) I should expect that initially 
the questions that confront him consciously or unconsciously would 
have to do with: whether or not he likes me; and if I do not respect 
him as a person, if I do not allow him to be himself, if I show no 
interest in him, if I am restless and fidgety, his answer, more often 
felt than expressed, will be “No, I don't like that fellow”. Having 
gotten past the question of whether he can like me or not, he is 
concerned with whether or not he can trust me. His answer will be 
negative if I burden him with judgments, moralizations, blames or 
express unconsidered commendation or unfounded enthusiasm. He 
next wants to know whether I have something really of value to give 
him; and if my response to his illness, his financial difficulties or his 
family, his educational plans or his vocational quandaries are mimeo- 
graphed answers that leave him as a person entirely out of account 
he will probably rate my contribution deservedly as low. If he, on 
the other hand, finds encouragement to proceed he will want to try 
me out in various ways. He will get my reactions to rather indifferent 
issues, then he may step ahead to present me with small problems and 
if I mean anything to him he will present his needs in fuller and 
fuller form. It will be necessary for me to be fully conscious of the 
art of saying nothing as we talk and of the dynamic values of saying 
nothing that he would say for himself without at the same time being 
a dead-pan. 
A beginning is best made with conversation that carries with it the 
least possibilities of engaging in inter-personal conflict. People do 
63 this rather intuitively and without design. The weather is a common 
instrument of probing between two people at this point of acquaint- 
anceship. In discussing the weather I test the other fellow’s willing- 
ness to talk to me. If he talks readily I feel that it is not enthusiasm 
for the weather but a willingness to accept me as a person to talk to, 
or if I am more professional perhaps I see a need within himself to 
talk. He, on the other hand, is more or less alert to the way I receive 
his conversation about the weather. Do I lend an ear interestingly 
because I respect him or am I grudging? Do I compete for control 
of the conversation ? Do I dead-pan him or really show interest ? Do I 
encourage him to move along to expose his thoughts beyond the 
weather? Do I moralize with him and advise him or do I by an inter- 
change devoid of psychological pressure help him arrive at a better 
understanding and clarify matters for himself and thus arrive at a 
conclusion that preserves self-respect for both of us? Do I argue to 
reshape him in my image or do I like him for his own personality? 
As part of this art of saying nothing in words I may say much 
without words. I may use my vocabulary, my facial expression or 
other non-verbal communications to make him feel at ease. An occa- 
sional “and” or “yes” are helpful, but they do not mean and or yes 
as defined by Webster. Also if I am somewhat professional in this 
situation I will be conscious of his delaying tactics that portray an 
insufficiency of rapport and I will not, therefore, be irritated by these 
Fabian tactics as I will know what they mean. If he repeats his story 
over and over again I know that he is not ready to go ahead and this 
will be true also if he introduces irrelevant things, spends time on 
trivialities and other immaterial points or lapses into silence and the 
burden of conversation is thrown on me. 
Luria has demonstrated how these Fabian tactics can be demon- 
strated experimentally in the psychological laboratory by presenting 
the subject with ideas of high emotional significance and asking him 
to respond with an associated idea or word. If the person conducting 
the experiment is not thoroughly acquainted with the man’s sensi- 
tivities or at least if the man thinks he is not, his response to the 
stimulus word will show the very same delaying tactics as are referred 
to above and will be accompanied by bodily movements that give 
evidence of tension. I should like to describe an interview with a man 
that reveals just how this occurs. This man sought help for a stomach 
discomfort, fullness and belching. His initial step in talking with the 
doctor was to blame his difficulty on over-eating. In our culture 
over-eating has no more moral implications than the weather and so 
he has no resistance to admitting this weakness. After a little dis- 
cussion along this line he presents the suggestion that his difficulty 
may be due to his having to drive a truck in traffic. In this he admits 
the possibility to the doctor of an emotional element, although he 
softens this by saying that he knew a man who drove in traffic and 
the strain of handling the steering wheel was responsible for his get- 
ting appendicitis. Shortly he abandoned the idea of an organic deter- 
minant in his complaint by saying that it may have something to do 
with his job which is inspecting airplanes and if he should make a 
64 mistake it might result in someone’s death. He had now arrived at 
a complete emotional explanation for his difficulty and brought him- 
self face to face with the question “Do I like this fellow? Can I go 
further with him? Can I trust him? Can he help me?” Apparently 
he reached a sufficient degree of assurance to terminate these delay- 
ing tactics for he suddenly blurts out “You do not know what I have 
been through for eight years with my wife. She has nagged me con- 
stantly. I go home at night hungry and the food is burned. I get 
so upset that I have to leave the house without eating”. But this is 
not all. He follows this up with a statement that this has become so 
intolerable and his wife so ill that they have had to have her com- 
mitted to a mental hospital. In response to a direct question he will 
not tell which hospital. Why? Because as it turns out the hospital 
is not a private sanitarium and her family is critical of him for not 
giving her that luxury. There is something that he is not ready to tell. 
Now it sounds as if we had reached the center of the difficulty, but 
he is still trying out the doctor before presenting his real difficulty 
which finally comes out in a statement that he is very much concerned 
for his daughter who has been very nervous and whom a neurologist 
says is apt to go the same way as his wife. This is not a succession 
of interviews covering weeks or even days. It is an interview of twenty 
minutes to half an hour. 
Whether I’m professional or not my attitude toward things that 
are different from me or my way of life will be important to my get- 
ting along in such a contact or to going further in being of help. If I 
oppose things that are different my uselessngss is soon discovered. If 
I merely tolerate things that are different I may be tolerated but my 
usefulness will be extremely limited. If I can enjoy difference and 
respect it I cease to be threatening. I elicit less defense and give my 
partner in conversation a chance to gain perspective on himself. This 
respect for difference is a very fundamental human quality, although 
unfortunately its presence tends to be restricted in a great many 
persons, maybe most people, to one or another aspect of living. Few 
of us are complete. Music, art, dance, culinary art, and many things 
that are not called art are dependent for their satisfying quality upon 
deviation from strict conformity. We may be very tolerant in one 
sphere and very narrow in another. If one wishes to discover how 
useful he may be to a returning veteran it might not be bad for him 
to look into different spheres of his life and test his capacity to 
accept difference—attitudes toward race, creed and color offer val- 
uable tests. 
As indicated above patients have no monopoly on unrational be- 
havior. Our everyday relationships are permeated with the unra- 
tional and it is not narrow to conceive of one’s patients in the same 
terms as one’s friends or vice versa. It is beyond the competence of 
most people to ferret out the explanations of the unrational but it 
is highly valuable to sense by certain signs evidences of the unra- 
tional, at least to avoid pointless argument if not to avoid complicating 
further the lives of those who are protecting themselves by unrational 
processes. 
65 Quite aside from the process of interviewing there is definite point 
to keeping in mind some of the evidences of undercurrents and hidden 
motives that come up in group as well as individual discussion. I 
have already referred to tensions and fidgeting. The changing of a 
topic of conversation is not without meaning, nor is interpretation. 
The circulatory and respiratory changes basic to the lie detector, the 
falling of the gastric tonus as seen by Todd in anxiety and the bodily 
movements accompanying falsifications as observed by Hohman are 
all a part of the picture: these, plus one-sided arguments with no 
readiness to accept opposing considerations, illogical or unrational 
arguments and most subtle of all recourse to idealism. For example, 
in many cases the demand for an education that is beyond one’s 
capacity, or a job that exceeds one’s preparation or is unsupported 
by previous performance may be seen not as annoyances, but as expres- 
sions of anxiety. In the case of the returning soldier this may be an 
anxiety about returning to the independence and responsibilities of 
civilian life. It was a distinct problem with a discharged soldier who 
went from person to person trying to seek help in getting back into 
the armed services. He was employing a severe patriotism as a pro- 
tection against a resumption of civilian responsibility, a resumption 
that carried with it many potential embarrassments since he had no 
visible disability. When confronted with an opportunity to join the 
Canadian forces his response was “Do you think I would fight for 
any country but my own”. 
I have not told you how a civilian is reborn, but I have attempted 
to point out some of the helps and hindrances to rebirth that are 
within our reach. The rebirth of a veteran is a metamorphosis of a 
soldier’s self by himself. Our chief job is to see that the day is sunny, 
the weather fair. 
66 Discussion of Dr. George S. Stevenson’s Paper 
Director of Psychiatric Services, Michael Reese Hospital, Chicago, Illinois 
MAXWELL GITELSON, M.D. 
I was most impressed by Doctor Stevenson’s emphasis on the im- 
portance of the time factor and of the existence of spontaneous forces 
operating in the establishment of a social or personal equilibrium. 
Doctor Stevenson has demonstrated the fact that the rebirth of a 
personality involves some of the same principles as the birth of a 
child. The good obstetrician does not call on his armamentarium of 
instruments and skills simply because he is eager to try them out. 
Instead he is always cognizant of the natural processes that are in 
operation and is wise enough and patient enough to give them their 
own opportunity to become effective. He sees his function as standing 
by to facilitate a natural process when that is necessary—no more 
and no less. He knows the limitations of his techniques. 
It is unfortunately true that there is a tendency among those whose 
work is concerned with the personality to be more active-minded— 
shall I say? Especially does this tendency appear as a response to 
the fact that we are all of us overwhelmed by the apparent enormity 
of the job of rehabilitation, I say “apparent because to a considerable 
extent we look upon it as our job rather than as a process which, 
whether we like it or not, must follow to a considerable extent its 
own natural course. It is my impression that a large part of the 
feeling which we bring to the problem of rehabilitation as we envisage 
it is not concerned with the objective merits of the problem. I believe 
that the urgency of many of us is motivated, at least in part, by 
feelings of obligation, guilt and anxiety which, while they are hu- 
manly understandable, confuse the issue so far as the real needs 
of the returning soldier are concerned. Such urgency makes poor 
surgeons out of potentially good obstetricians. 
Thus for example there are the cases that come to the clinics ear- 
marked for “psychoanalysis” while the soldier’s application has been 
for help in the adjudication of a legitimate claim. There are the 
cases that have been chronic misfits for a life-time whose rehabilita- 
tion suddenly becomes a matter of equal consequence with cases of 
acute anxiety or battle fatigue. There are the active interventions 
that take the form of advising, even urging, the entering of disability 
claims in cases in which the individual asks for simple aid in the 
process of his vocational rehabilitation. There are the cases that are 
sent to college because there are funds available for this purpose 
without deference to the fact that the person, under his own steam, 
directed towards his own goals, would have been useful and happy 
with a vocational plan. 
What I have said thus far applies largely to that group of so-called 
psychiatric casualties whose absolute number contributes to our 
sense of urgency though in fact they are relatively a small minority. 
The point that Doctor Stevenson made in his address is of even 
greater pertinence so far as the large majority of ex-servicemen are 
concerned. He has emphasized that the making of a soldier involves 
67 to a large extent the deindividualization of the civilian. To the extent 
to which this is a necessary aspect of the military art it impairs 
the person’s capacity as a responsible civilian in a democratic society. 
This war however has witnessed a new kind of deindividualization, 
which at least to a certain degree has been added to classical military 
indoctrination. The techniques of modern warfare have enforced 
the kind of relationships among soldiers which brings into play that 
kind of deindividualization which makes possible skilled and respon- 
sible team-work directed towards a common goal. This is not a purely 
mechanical consequence. It involves inter-individual identifications 
which have social potentialities in peace as well as in war. In this 
sense the soldier is to a certain extent already reborn as a person- 
ality in terms of his potentiality for group participation. His rebirth 
as a civilian must indeed result in his return to the status of full 
individual responsibility and capacity for independent living and 
independent action. This will certainly involve the loss of the auto- 
notisms which military necessity has trained into him. He will, how- 
ever, to a larger extent than previous to his military experience, be 
sensitized to the possibilities of social collaboration towards common 
goals. 
In the sense in which Doctor Stevenson has spoken it would be 
too bad if politicians and vested interests were to seize the oppor- 
tunity to intervene actively in the directing and focusing of these 
potentialities for social collaboration towards goals and purposes 
which are distortions of the yet unborn political and social goals and 
purposes of the soldiers themselves. It becomes the duty of our 
whole social order to insist that conditions be maintained which will 
permit these young men, who have changed rather than been injured 
in consequence of their experience as soldiers,—to permit these young 
men to be reborn as members of the political and social community 
under the full impulsion of their own capacities for life as collaborat- 
ing individuals in a democratic society. It becomes our responsibility 
to provide their capacity for aggressive action with a truly moral 
equivalent for war—with creative rather than destructive ends. 
I am specifically referring to the signs that are already appearing 
of the attempts which will be made to forcefully bring to birth that 
kind of personality orientation in the returning soldier which can 
be exploited in the interests of purposes that have nothing to do 
with those of the individuals concerned. I am referring for example, 
to the efforts which are already recognizable to pit the interests of 
soldiers against civilian workers. 
If we are to be present at the rebirth of a civilian in terms of the 
civilian as a citizen in his relationship to his fellow citizens, then the 
conditions that must be provided are like those which the wise 
obstetrician provides. The spirit of the town meeting which prevailed 
in the early days of the war in our block organizations for example 
could well be resuscitated and directed towards the aim of democratic 
living together even as they were first directed towards the bitter 
necessities of mutual defense. 
68 No person who pretends to be a therapist can really effectively 
tackle his elected task unless he has come straight with himself. Our 
wish to assist the return of the soldier to civilian life will succeed 
only to the extent to which we have come straight with ourselves 
as to what it means to be citizens and members of a genuine democ- 
racy. We will get the kind of social rebirth and rehabilitation of the 
returning soldier which we earn through the exercise of political 
and social wisdom and good will. 
69 ROUND TABLE DISCUSSION 
on 
EMOTIONAL ASPECTS OF PROBLEMS IN INDUSTRY 
Mr. Burleigh Gardner: Chairman 
Ass’t Professor of Industrial Relations, The School of Business, 
University of Chicago. 
Col. H. H. Weimer: 
Veterans’ Employment Representative for Illinois. 
Dr. Agnes A. Sharp : 
Head of the Medical Department, A. B. Dick Company. 
Mrs. Constance Steele: 
Director of Personnel, Container Corporation of America 
Mr. Robert Levin : 
Illinois Director of the National C.1.0. War Relief Committee. 
Mr. Peter J. Bockstahler: 
Regional Director of the Labor League for Human Rights of the 
United States, A, F, of L. 
70 The Chairman : This morning I have the pleasure of heading up 
this round table on Industry. I have a slight feeling that it is the 
position of the blind leading the blind. We have one person here that 
can speak with considerable authority for the veteran, but he is not 
in industry. He just asked us to put him there. 
As we planned this, we would like to allow time for plenty of 
questions and discussion. We have no fixed ideas of speakers. We 
plan to follow this order at the moment. Col. Weimer, of the Vet- 
erans’ Employment Service, will lead off, telling about the magnitude 
of the problems faced in placing veterans in jobs, and so on. Follow- 
ing that, we will have two representatives of, I might say, industry, 
and of the personnel organizations that are trying to do a job for 
the veterans. Then we will have two representatives of the unions 
who will present what the unions are doing, what the picture is as they 
see it. And then maybe we will talk about how we can all get together 
and do a better job. 
I think I will now turn over to Col. Weimer, of the Veterans’ 
Employment Service. Col. Weimer. 
Ladies and Gentlemen: I think you will all be interested to know 
about how many of the boys who left their homes to enter the service 
have already been discharged and returned to civilian life. This is 
not quite an exact figure, because it is being added to daily, but so 
far, about a million and a half men of World War II have already 
been discharged. Of that number there have been 116,000 returned 
to our own state of Illinois. 
In addition, there are hundreds of them each month who come into 
Illinois, and who particularly come to Chicago and say, “I want a 
job here. I want to live here. This is the best soldier town in the 
United States.” I think perhaps our Service Men’s Centers and 
USO have helped to give them that impression. 
Col. H. H. Weimer: Thank you, Professor Gardner. 
We in government have tried to do something about getting ready 
to handle our obligations under the GI bill. Congress, in its wisdom, 
did not say “we think there ought to be a service for veterans,” or 
“it would be a nice thing if there were.” They say this in the 61 
bill: ‘ ‘ Congress declares it to be its intent and purpose that there shall 
be an effective job counseling and placement agency for veterans,” 
and they proceeded to name this Veterans’ Employment Service, 
threw the ball to us, and we are running with it now. I hope we 
will never fumble it. 
These men that we have in this Veterans’ Employment Service 
are all themselves veterans—some of them of World War I, some of 
World War 11, and some who have been in both wars. They are 
selected for their job because of their occupational knowledge, and 
because they have had relatively the same experiences as the men 
who are coming back, and talk the same language. They are also 
selected because they are presumed to have the courage that it takes 
to answer some of the forthright questions that these youngsters put 
71 up to them. When a boy says, in effect, “What shall I do with my 
life ? ’ ’—which is what he is asking when he says, £ ‘ What kind of work 
should I enter into?” then a great deal depends upon the kind of 
an answer that he gets, because the right answer can lead to satisfac- 
tion to the man, to the employer and to his family, and it can lead 
ultimately to positions of leadership in industry, in the community; 
the wrong answer leads to frustration, dissatisfaction, bitterness, ulti- 
mately the relief rolls, night court, the big house, and in some cases, 
the asylum. 
Here is the way this thing works, A boy comes in who never had 
a job, but who has thought things over carefully and has decided 
what he wants. Well, he is no particular problem, even though he 
has a physical disability. The only thing that the veteran man has 
to be careful about in handling him is to be sure he is referred to a 
job that he can handle in spite of his disability. One of our jobs 
is to have employers cooperate to this extent,—that they will give 
due consideration to the things that need to be considered, that so 
far as physical disabilities are concerned, they will try to make for 
each job in their plant a list of the physical demands of that job, so 
that they can match what the job demands with what the man has in 
order to fill that job. If a boy has lost a leg or lost an arm or lost a 
hand . . . Correction. I ought to talk like the boys themselves talk. 
If he gave a leg, gave an arm, gave a hand, then he should be placed 
in a job that he can handle in spite of that loss, in spite of the gift 
that he has given to his government. 
Employers, I think, ought to know that some of the boys who come 
back are going back into homes that are not the same kind of homes 
that the employers themselves came out of, that the kind of people 
in those homes are not always the same kind of people. Here, for 
instance, is a boy who walks into an employment office. He is weak, 
he is pale, his wound has healed all right, but he is obviously unfit 
to go to work. But he says, “I’ve got to have a job, and I’ve got to 
have it now.” And the veteran man talks to him and points out the 
fact that it is a much better thing for him to take a little time out and 
let nature help him build himself up to the point where he can take 
a job and hold it. 
Well, this particular boy had this story to tell. He had been home 
just four days, and at the end of the fourth day his wife’s mother 
said, “When is that loafer going to go to work?”—and he was deter- 
mined he was going to show her, by God! that he wasn’t afraid to 
go to work—and that’s why he had to have a job. 
The folks at home have to be reached somehow, by some people, and 
told some wholesome truths, in order to get the man in the right 
kind of a frame of mind to do a satisfactory job when he gets it. 
I notice that your organization has issued this little booklet. On 
the front cover of this booklet is a picture of a dissatisfied soldier, and 
his dad and his mother standing in the background, puzzled to know 
what to do about it. I think if that dad had written to the boy and 
had told him this: ‘ ‘ Son, there have been thousands of books written 
72 about the last World War, and not a single one of them has an accur- 
ate and a complete description of a modem battle. So neither mother 
nor I will expect you to tell us all about the war. You are our boy, 
and we want you to tell us incidents of your service, as, if, and when 
you feel like telling them.”—if that dad had written that, that would 
help to overcome this strange feeling that the boy has when he comes 
home. Of course, even after he comes home, it isn’t too late for his 
dad to say something like that. It isn’t too late for his dad or his 
friend, his neighbor, his employer, to say to him, “Look, we know 
what you are thinking about. We know you had to leave your outfit 
in Germany, and we know that belonging to an outfit, belonging to 
a squad, a platoon, a company, a battalion, a regiment, a division, 
an army that’s doing its stuff, is the greatest thing that could have 
happened to you, next to the love of a good woman. We know that 
you learned something which soldiers of the first world war called 
“the spirit of comradeship”; Napoleon called it “esprit de corps”— 
a fraternity among men that is brought into being under the condi- 
tions of wartime and which the man can’t help but think about 
constantly. He is wondering what is happening to his outfit. He 
knows there are times when they don’t get rations and ammunition, 
when they need them. He looks over the casualty list to see whether 
anybody in his old outfit has been killed or wounded. He keeps 
thinking about them constantly. 
The same thing is true of the sailor who had to leave his shipmates 
on board a destroyer or battle wagon that’s now in Japanese waters. 
He knows,—that overall, the men he left behind are doing the one 
big job that must be done today in order to attain victory, and that 
there is nothing at all on the home front that is quite as big, by 
comparison. 
And so, to start with, there isn’t anything on the home front that 
is going to give him the complete, the total satisfaction that he got 
out of his service, with the men that he had to leave. 
There is a psychiatrist who burst into print the other day—advising 
the wives of veterans that it was “their duty to help the veterans 
completely forget all about the war.” This is just my own opinion, 
but I think that it’s the silliest advice that was ever given to anybody. 
As Dr. Zilboorg pointed out last night, when a man sees mangled 
bodies and he sees human blood running in streams, it is a sight that 
he cannot forget. If it gets to the point where it gives him night- 
mares, certainly a good woman can be very helpful to him in her 
capacity of a nurse, but if the nightmares continue, there is only one 
thing to do, and that is to get professional care for that boy. A man 
sees these things, and they are not pretty; they are indelibly stamped 
on his memory, and they will stick with him as long as he lives. 
But aside from those horrors, what is there about his war service 
that he ought to forget? What’s he got to be ashamed of? He’s got 
something to be proud of. You know, after the last war, there were 
a lot of soldiers who were tired and homesick, and they represented 
thousands of other soldiers from their respective outfits. They gathered 
in Paris for the purpose of forming a veterans’ organization, which 
73 later became known to the world as the American Legion. In Paris 
they drew up a document which was called the preamble to the con- 
stitution for this veterans’ organization, and it sets forth the reasons 
for the existence of such an organization. Bear in mind, those men 
who were doing that were all homesick men, they were fed up with 
war, they had enough of it, and they could have been assumed to 
be men who were glad to forget the war. But among these reasons 
that they set forth in that preamble was this: not to forget, but ‘‘ to 
preserve the memories and incidents of our association in the Great 
War”—and if there are any Legionnaires in this audience, they 
know that’s part of the preamble that every member of the Legion, 
at every meeting of the Legion, everywhere it is held, repeats at each 
meeting, and if it weren’t true and if they didn’t recognize it as being 
true, it would have been pulled out of that preamble a long, long 
time ago. 
I was going over to the Dearborn Station one night. There was a 
kid in uniform. He had two rows of ribbons, surmounted by a combat 
infantry badge. His right leg was off—he was on crutches. I stopped 
a moment to congratulate him on that combat infantry badge. He 
grinned, and he said, “You know, most folks don’t know what it is, 
but I’m kind of proud of it.” I said, “I’m proud of it for you, lad. 
I wish they’d make it retroactive to the last war, so I’d wear one. ’ ’ 
A lady came up—his mother. “You’re talking to my boy about 
badges?” 
I said, “Yes, I was.” 
She said, “You’re old enough to have more sense. I gave my coun- 
try a perfect man, and look what they have given back to me! Look 
at the condition he’s in! ” 
The poor kid colored and said, ‘ ‘ Gee, Ma, don’t talk like that. That 
doesn’t do any good.” And she kept on, and all I could think of 
saying was, “Madam, God forgive you. You don’t know what you 
are doing to your boy. ’ ’ 
The Employment Service—the Veterans’ Employment Service 
can’t do much about that except regret it. We do hope that by men- 
tioning that little incident, folks like yourselves will spread the word 
around about what not to say to some of these lads when they come 
back. I am interested in it principally from the standpoint of employ- 
ment and the effect that things like that have on the minds of these 
men, and how they keep them from doing a job if they get one. 
I had a boy come in to me who laid off from his very, very essential 
work for a full day, just because he wanted to spill over, to talk to 
somebody about a thing that most folks would think was a very trifling 
incident. He had a kid brother, and like all kid brothers, the youngster 
idolized his soldier brother, and he kept begging him to tell him some 
little story about the war. Finally the brother started over when 
big sister came in and said, “Oh, I hear better stuff than that on the 
radio. C’mon let’s go to a movie.” 
She might as well have stabbed that veteran, because he’s all 
upset. He said to me, “For God’s sake, where the hell are we going 
74 to get off at if our own people at home don’t understand us better 
than that?” 
We have our men in the hospitals that contact these boys before 
they are discharged, for the purpose of registering them for work 
so that their registration card can go ahead of them to the employ- 
ment office nearest their home, which can get busy and dig up a job 
for them and speed up the time between the man’s discharge and his 
return to employment. It works out pretty well, because our man at 
the hospital has access to medical records, which would indicate whether 
or not there are any work limitations on the type of work the man 
seems to be best fitted for, and if there are, that can be noted on this 
card for the information of the people in the employment office who 
are responsible for getting him a job. 
Here is one of the things that bewilders a veteran who comes back. 
He is accustomed to direct man-to-man relationships, and he is accus- 
tomed to having officers tell him exactly what they mean, and there 
is not much uncertainty in what he is told about anything while he 
is in the armed forces, whether it’s the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, 
or Coast Guard. He knows that when a captain of infantry stands 
in front of his men and looks at his watch and says, “It is now 16 :30 
hours. At 17:30 hours this company will attack such-and-such a 
point in such-and-such a formation,” and so on—he knows that by 
the grace of God and the training that they have received, when 
17 :30 hours comes, that is exactly what they are going to do, or they 
are going to die trying to do it. 
And he comes back to an atmosphere where a man, who may be a 
perfectly good man, who may be a perfectly generous man, anxious 
to help a veteran, has a conversation that goes something like this: 
“Well, now, I’m not sure.” “Well, we’ll see about that.” “Well, 
let’s think this over for a little while.” “Well, maybe something can 
be worked out a little later.” He doesn’t know what to make of that. 
He is not used to that kind of stuff at all. Now, this employer might 
be the best employer in the world for that boy; he might have the 
best spot in the world for him. But that’s not going to work—not 
until the boy gets used to more of our civilian uncertainties. He is 
used to absolute certainty in matters that affect life and death, and 
he can’t understand why there can’t be certainty about less important 
matters. You can’t blame him, can you? 
Then there is this attitude of the boy who comes back to an employer 
who thinks that all a soldier learned is how to shoot and how to salute. 
Here’s a case of a boy who had a job in an office, filing blue prints. 
The army sent him to a school for artillery mechanics, anti-aircraft. 
On his way to school he said to himself, “This is pretty soft. Four 
hours a day listening to a couple of profs, while the other guys are 
humping a pack around thirty or forty miles a day.” He got to 
school, and he found a faculty like he never saw before. Sixteen men, 
each one of them top ranking men in his particular field, including 
three of the world’s greatest metallurgists, and all of the highest cali- 
bre. Each of them had a staff of five to ten experts, and they taught 
that boy all about the texture of metals, and how to machine those 
metals. 
75 He got his four hours a day in classroom, and he got four hours 
a day in class work, and he got four hours a day in field demon- 
stration, and he got two hours a day in a study period at night, for 
twelve weeks. But he took it, and the result was that he kept his 
battery of 90 mm. ack-aek guns going, despite all combinations of 
weather and combat conditions. He came back wounded; and his 
boss put his arm around him and said, “Johnny, we’re glad you’re 
back. Your old job is waiting for you.” And the kid shuddered 
. . . filing blue prints! He said, “Well, you know, I’d much rather 
do something mechanical,” and the boss said, “Well, now, that’s a 
lot of nonsense. We haven’t any guns here.” So the boy tried to 
explain to him that he found out that a 99 mm. gun wasn’t just a 
gun, it was a complicated piece of machinery, and he knew how to 
keep it in order, and there wasn’t any machine he was afraid of 
tackling. 
But he took his old job. Three weeks later he found a battery of 
giant punch presses that were only two-thirds efficient, and he went 
back to his boss and said, ‘'Turn me loose on them, won’t you? I’ll 
get them up to 100 per cent production. I ’ll show you I will. ’ ’ 
The boss said, “Now, we’ve discussed that matter before. I have 
complied with the law: I have given you back your old job; and I 
don’t like this attitude. ’ ’ Then he said to his secretary, ‘ ‘ There’s grati- 
tude for you! But I suppose that’s what the army does to them.” 
And the kid said, “You go to hell, Mister”—and he walked out and 
went over to an employment office and saw one of these veteran 
representatives. 
Well, I think these veteran representatives are a wonderful bunch 
of fellows, but they are not magicians, they can’t pull rabbits out of 
hats. They do have tools to work with. There’s one of them. We call 
it, for convenience’ sake, a “Conversion Book.” The official title is 
“Special Aids for Placing Military Personnel in Civilian Jobs.” So 
the veteran man turns to the conversion book; he looks under this 
title of “artillery mechanic, anti-aircraft,” and he finds under that 
a list of comparable jobs in civilian life. First there are listed the 
jobs that the man’s army training has fitted him to go into imme- 
diately. Then there follows a list of jobs that he can handle with 
some additional training, and a third list that he can handle with 
considerably more training. The book also tells about the physical 
activities that are required on the job, and the usual working condi- 
tions of the particular job. 
This army is a complicated machine. There are over a thousand 
jobs within the Army of the United States today. I think the exact 
figure in this book is 1,087. And all of them have comparable jobs 
in civilian life. So the only thing the veteran man then had to do 
was to go down that list and agree with Johnny on the job that Johnny 
could handle, the job he wanted most, and he had to check it to see 
that he could handle it in spite of his physical disability. 
Now, one of the things we try to do after the boy has been placed, 
is to follow up to make sure that there are no resentments building 
up, to make sure that he is getting along well on the job. 
76 A boy comes in, wearing the little bar of the Purple Heart. He is 
resorting to a form of bravado, and he says, “Listen, I’m not here to 
ask for any help. Get that. I don’t need any. You may think I’m 
a kid, but by God! I’m a man. I’ve done a man’s job.” 
Well, the veteran man knows that’s true and he knows that the 
boy wouldn’t be there if he didn’t need help, so he’s got to try to get 
him the help without letting him know that he’s getting it. It’s not 
the easiest thing to do, but these are a grand bunch of kids to work 
with, and they’re smart. Fifteen per cent of them are college men; 
fifty-three per cent of them, high school men; and the rest of them, 
grade school, and so far as I have been able to discover, even in some 
of our most backward communities in Illinois, most of the boys in 
grade school were in the upper grades when they went into the armed 
forces. 
Well, there are a lot of these boys in the service—boys and girls— 
I’m not forgetting the GI Janes, the Wacs, the Waves, the Spars, 
the girls in the Women’s Reserve of the Marine Corps—they have 
their difficulties, too, especially now since a lot of them go overseas. 
Some of them receive combat disabilities, that is, they get shell wounds 
and bomb splinters and deserve every consideration. I think by the 
first of July we will have fifteen million men who will have worn 
the uniform of the United States—men and women—during this World 
War 11, and it may well be, as the Civil Service Commission estimates, 
that by the time the war is over, there will be over seventeen million 
who have worn it. 
If there are seventeen million people, and you care to multiply that 
by four, the answer is half of the United States; and nobody is going 
to push that around and get away with it. I don’t believe that there 
are very many people who want to try it. There are some people 
who want to set themselves up as demagogues and try to capitalize 
on some of the things that the boys do have a right to grouse about; 
but they won’t get anywhere, because these men are going to see to 
it that this country of ours is going to be a grander and a more glori- 
ous country than it ever was before. As Eddie Rickenbacker says, 
when these young dare devils of jeep and plane and tank and PT 
boat come back to us, they are going to give our complacent country 
the greatest shot in the arm it ever had. And we want to help them 
do it. 
If we want to do that job, we want to first plan to see that there 
are enough jobs for them; and secondly, to see to it that enough intelli- 
gence is used in placing them in those jobs properly, because only in 
that way can we carry out our obligations to them, and we owe them 
a lot. For they are carrying our objectives for us; it’s up to us to 
carry their objectives for them. 
The Chairman: Next on our program will be Dr. Agnes Sharp 
of the A. B. Dick Company. Dr. Sharp is tackling this whole problem 
of the veterans from the point of view of how the employees aid the 
veteran in making his adjustment, of how the personnel organization 
Thank you. (Applause) 
77 should function, how they can cooperate with various agencies, and 
so on. 
I hope I expressed it properly, Dr. Sharp. 
Dr. Agnes Sharp: In this country we like to think that we are 
all healthy and fairly well educated. Recently from National Head- 
quarters of Selective Service came Medical Statistics Bulletin No. 3 
which is an analysis of the Physical Examinations of Selective Service 
Registrants during wartime. Between April 1942 and December 1943, 
10,000,000 men were examined by local draft boards and induction 
centers. The study is based on a sample consisting of approximately 
20% of these examinations. 
Of the registrants examined, 36.9% were reported to be free of 
physical defects. 63.1% had physical defects to some degree. 
The principal causes for rejection of white registrants during the 
entire period were, in the order of magnitude, mental disease, muscu- 
loskeletal defects, T.B. and syphilis. For the negroes, the major 
causes were educational and mental deficiency, syphilis, mental disease, 
cardiovascular, etc. 
These figures are weighted definitely in terms of younger men, non- 
fathers, and occupations least essential to the war effort. Rejections 
increased in direct relation to increasing age and from the middle 
30’s on reached over 50% of all registrants examined. 
Specifically in Illinois and particularly in the field of mental hygiene 
the figures run as follows: 
Mental Deficiency 3.9% 
Mental Disease 17.8% 
Neurological 4.8% 
Educational Deficiency 1.1% 
27.6% 
That means that over 25% of our rejects here in Illinois were for 
neuropsychiatric and psychologic reasons. And with no exact figures 
to support my statement, I say that most of these 4F’s, who are mental 
hygiene problems, have been absorbed in business and industry. These 
are some of the war workers mentioned yesterday. 
Some of these are definitely “marginal people” who are usefully 
earning probably more money than they ever earned before, many 
of whose jobs will be taken back by returning veterans. 
In the last war and after, the various sciences and professions were 
organized and functioned under a few administrative divisions. The 
scientists worked in professional groups. There were base hospital 
units and psychologists worked under one division. This has not been 
true in the military services in this war. Much of the work in the 
military services has been and is being done under various titles and 
assignments. So in industry, the work is being done and identified 
under job titles rather than under professional titles. 
Problems requiring special skills have arisen in industry and indi- 
viduals because of specific training and experience have been employed 
78 as these needs arose. Psychologists are employed in Medical Divisions, 
in the Personnel Department, in the Employment Office, in Industrial 
Engineering, in Public Relations, in Training and Employee Service, 
in Research and Planning. As a result psychologists are scattered in 
an industry and through the fabric of industry. 
This means that as a particular business or industry works on its 
plans for returning servicemen and women a psychologist may be part 
of the group of trained persons each looking at the program from 
slightly different angles. And so it seems to me that no psychologist 
in Industry can speak for his Company, nor for his fellow psycholo- 
gists working elsewhere. 
There are three angles to the life of each returning serviceman and 
woman in which we as citizens are interested. 
(1) Medical care, hospitalization and treatment for any and all 
ailments. For this the Veterans Administration is responsible. 
(2) Educational opportunity and training. Here the Educational 
Institutions working with government agencies function. 
(3) Adequate jobs and work programs. Here it is that the now 
famous 60,000,000 jobs must be created by industry. 
In industry, then, we are dealing with veterans who are able to 
work and to take a place in the working world immediately upon 
being mustered out of the service. They are not handicapped in the 
usual sense of the word. 
In my organization we have had 
In service, 19% of our payroll 
Killed or missing, .02% of our veterans 
Discharged, 10% of our veterans 
90% still to come 
Of the 10% of our veterans discharged 44% came back to work for 
us. 
66% did not return to us and of those that did 11% of our returned 
veterans have left us so we have only 38% of our discharged veterans. 
We have employed 11% more veterans not ours than the number of 
ours yet returned. 
Lumping our returned veterans and veterans who were new 
employees for us, we have absorbed veterans to the extent of .03% 
of our present payroll. 
Of these returned veterans 89% are still with us. 
As of today our experience has been that 50% of other people’s 
veterans move on from ns for the following reasons: 
25% for other jobs 
25% for no reason 
17% for health 
17% dissatisfied 
.08% for college 
15.2 % miscellaneous 
79 My experience may be too limited for valid interpretation, but it 
seems to me there is a tendency here in the middle west for veterans 
to return to their original jobs for a few days, a few weeks or a few 
months, and then to quit. Frequently this happens after intensive 
efforts were made in understanding individuals with careful place- 
ment and job adjustment, all of which failed with the veteran. 
This results in a sort of musical chairs game. We are all trading 
veterans. We have some of our own who have returned. We have 
many other-company veterans who have returned but have not stayed 
with their old employer. This seems to me to be one of the difficult 
problems for mental hygienists as well as personnel people to work 
on and understand. I do not know, of course, but I imagine this 
trend will continue until the job market becomes thin and opportuni- 
ties few and far between. I am sure it is a problem for the USES 
and government planning agencies as well as for placement people 
in industry. I have not been able to get any over all figures on this 
point, but here in the middle west the figures would run high if my 
observation is correct. 
This point troubles me as a psychologist because human tempers are 
short, interest lags and impatience is a national characteristic; every- 
one ’s sympathy and generosity gives out in the face of frequent failure 
and rebuff. We have only a million and a half men back. By and 
large this 1% million are not representative of those who have been 
in the services long nor have most of them seen foreign service. We 
hope to have twelve million back. The present million and a half can 
well prove an experimental period for them and for us if we are able, 
as mental hygienists, to evaluate the readjustment factors and make 
plans which will help those in authority in industry, the USES and in 
private employment agencies. 
If I could have my wish I would turn mental hygienists loose on 
the problem of restlessness on the job, the desire to quit and change 
with the hope that the next job will Toe completely satisfactory even 
though one knows in general that he is going to do exactly the same 
kind of work: Drill press, punch press, assembly, clerical work. The 
only thing that is different is the locale. 
In discussing the theme of these two days it has been necessary to 
group people as being alike in some one characteristic. In this Round 
Table we group people as in industry, and then we make another 
special group inside the vocation of those men and women of the 
armed services whom we call “veterans.” The information, gathered 
under these two classifications, is extremely useful for some purposes. 
If, however, these people were to be classified according to degree of 
emotional balance they would be differently grouped. I point this 
out as a safeguard in our thinking. We like to generalize and to draw 
conclusions. We all know this and yet there is a great temptation 
to assume that because a person is in one group for one quality or 
characteristic, i.e. a veteran, he will be in the same class for another 
entirely unrelated characteristic. 
“The doing of the same or similar tasks or working in the same 
business, under the same management or supervision, does not produce 
80 a sameness of workers. Anyone who observes or deals with workers 
in a factory, or workers anywhere, sees that they retain their indi- 
viduality during working hours and do not cease to be definite persons 
when they clock in.”1 
This same is true of returning servicemen and women. They retain 
their individuality. 
It is clear to anyone in industry that the human problems in indus- 
try are great, and that no one of them is within measuring distance 
of complete solution. It is important to realize in the field of industrial 
psychology that what is begun does not end. 
The term Industrial Psychology belongs to the 20th century. Dur- 
ing the last century the rapid development of industry, first in Eng- 
land and then throughout the world, has changed to lives of millions 
who have gone to work in factory or office and so set up a host of 
new problems. At the same time a social conscience has been shaping 
which has made the sensitive increasingly alive to what is happening 
not only to peoples’ bodies, but to their minds. The general recogni- 
tion of a psychological aspect in industrial affairs is something new 
in history. 
For practical purposes industrial psychology may be defined as the 
study of the conduct of those who exchange the work of their hands 
and brains for the means to live. This includes a large part of the 
population, excluding only the unfit, those too young to be given a 
paid job, and the small minority who are endowed with the means 
to work or not as they wish. Industrial psychology strictly limits its 
scope to the material and social environment to which the worker 
adapts himself while he is at work, and by which he is therefore 
modified. 
Some of the more important topics prominent in the study of indus- 
trial psychology, as it has developed during the present century, 
are vocational guidance, employee selection, placement, transfer, and 
promotion, time and motion study, hours of work (shifts) and arrange- 
ment of such hours, and the relation of sickness and of accidents to 
the material and psychological environment, including light, heat, ven- 
tilation, fatigue and absenteeism. 
The enormous number of inventions and machines developed and 
improved upon during the century, the progress made in the natural 
sciences, and the growing knowledge of the mechanisms of the human 
body and mind, all tended to focus interest on man’s likeness to a 
machine. The phrase “the human machine” rightly interpreted refers 
to part of the bodily structure, but it became, rather by implication 
than design, synonymous with man himself. Where any effort at all 
were made to study the worker of the machine, the tendency was in 
the direction of emphasizing the likeness of one worker to another, 
and the likeness of all to machines. 
iM. M. Mellis “Industrial Psychology” of Institute of British Lawderers 
XX6, 1939. 
81 The first challenge to these assumptions came from their failure 
under the hard test of war. War called for a supply of munitions on 
a hitherto undreamed-of scale, and industrial operations were at first 
based on the simple but unjustified application of elementary arith- 
metical rules. It was assumed that if a man completes 1 unit of work 
in 1 hour we will complete 8 units in 8 hours, or 12 in 12 hours. Up 
to a point, of course, it is true that the more hours one works the more 
will one accomplish, so incredibly long hours were worked in munition 
factories, seven days a week being common. The results were dis- 
concerting. Output went down and down, and absence from sickness 
&nd other causes went up and up. 
For more than three years now in this war many industrial workers 
have been working 68 and 72 hours a week and longer. All Industrial 
Relations Departments are on the watch for workers, both men and 
women, who work a shift in one factory, then another shift in the fac- 
tory of another company. Many men and women are working two 
jobs without the knowledge of either employers. We are experiencing 
many cases of complete fatigue and breakdown of health. 
In 1915 it was shown that the 12 hour working day, except for short 
periods of emergency, was a wasteful and extravagent arrangement. 
The central and foremost problem was the nature of fatigue and its 
physiological mechanism. It was shown that the excessive hours im- 
posed so severe a strain upon the workers that their rate of production 
tended to decrease, sick leave and broken time to increase, while some 
sought refuge in alcohol because they were too tired to eat. There 
was then, and is now, evidence of the almost intolerable strain on the 
management. Supervisors, foremen, production men have all been 
working much too many hours. 
In 1914-18 for a time and again now the full effect of the long hours 
was not immediately manifest because increased pay provided better 
food, and because a sense of patriotism stimulated effort, but now 
again the resulting depletion of the workers’ reserves of energy is 
plain to any observer. 
In this war, as in the last, time lost through lateness, broken time, 
sickness absence, or just sheer absence constitutes a formidable prob- 
lem. Our papers are full of absenteeism figures. The causes of lost 
time classify into 2 main groups; those largely inherent in the nature 
of events and those that might be controlled. In the first group are 
such causes as the employment of people of inferior physique, the 
inadquate housing and transport facilities, the inequalities of food 
supply, wintry weather, darkened streets, the domestic duties of mar- 
ried women, the war preoccupations and exigencies of all workers, 
and sickness and disease caused by conditions outside the factory. 
The second group includes such causes as fatigue, sickness and 
accidents originating in the factory, faulty internal organization, 
insufficiently trained supervisors, indifference, slackness, laziness, dis- 
content, prolonged hours, insufficient rest periods or holidays, and 
excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages. 
By law accidents have to be reported. Some of the factors in acci- 
dent causation have been found to be excessive speed of production, 
82 environmental conditions such as lighting or temperature and per- 
sonal matters of workers. 
However well equipped a factory may be accidents are bound to 
happen and industry must make proper provision to cut down acci- 
dents. The first incentive to accident is the health and 
physical fitness of the workers. Factory conditions contributing to 
this end include lighting, ventilation, heating, rest rooms, canteens, 
protection from poisoning and dangerous fumes and the proper organi- 
zation of a factory. People must work in healthful conditions before 
the real suitability of their work calls for consideration. 
Fatigue is sometimes spoken of as if it were an unmitigated evil, 
but surely the unit of experience is not the period causing the fatigue 
alone, but in addition, that which succeeds it, a period of rest. Fatigue 
and rest form one whole, and fatigue is only an evil when it is not 
relieved by rest. 
There are organic changes in fatigued humans—they are often too 
tired to eat. There is eyestrain, headache, and various minor disorders. 
There are psychological changes in fatigue. There is diminuation 
in the power of concentration, in memory, in ability to see the connec- 
tion between ideas all, of which are important for efficiency. The 
fatigued person criticizes uncritically because emotionally, often there 
is a loss of humor, for few of us are able to see the amusing side of 
things when fatigued. 
Most people are more easily moved to tears or laughter, less bal- 
anced emotionally, more likely to suffer from wounded self esteem, 
with easier yielding to fear or irrational stobbornness and a tendency 
to irritability which may vent itself on the wrong person. 
If such an investigation were possible, it would be interesting to 
know how many faulty decisions of people in authority were associated 
with fatigue. 
We accept the effect of illness or continued strain in reducing our 
energy. Here today we are emphasizing the mental conditions that 
also have this effect. If during a day of ordinary work we are worried 
all the time about something we have left undone, something we have 
said, the fate of someone we love, the possibility of losing one’s job, 
and so on, energy is being used up in the conflict between work and 
worry. 
The worry instead of being of the nature of current stress may be 
quite irrational, i.e. neurotic, and yet have the same results: The 
people who fear they will be fired, though they know they have secur- 
ity of tenure; those who are upset if they have to interview someone 
in authority, though they know there is nothing wrong; those forced 
to attempt an impossible perfection—these are all using up in their 
conflicts energy which is in consequence not freely available for nor- 
mal activities. 
Unconsciously we all take for granted a certain background to our 
lives. We assume that we can within certain limits plan for the future, 
for next week, or next year. War breaks this stable background. 
83 Nothing then can be taken for granted. The careers of men and of 
women are interrupted, there is uncertainty with regard to income 
and careers, both in the present and after the war—all of which means 
that, even where the actual details of daily life have not been radically 
changed, the background against which they take place has no longer 
the same security. 
The result is a feeling of uncertainty, to which people react differ- 
ently, Some have broken down under it and have sought a specious 
security in physical or mental illness; some have become querulous, 
taking as a personal grievance the shattering events now impinging 
on their stability; some have been stimulated to greater effort; some 
consciously acquiesce in the change; no one, however, remains the 
same. The environment in which we earn our living can stimulate 
or depress; help or thwart us, determining in some way to what we 
shall react. 
It is impossible in the present state of our ignorance to analyze 
all the factors that go to the formation of the mental atmosphere or 
psychological environment in which we work. 
Each person, in addition to being an individual, works in a depart- 
ment or division and is a member of a group, and there is little doubt 
that a group thinks, feels, and acts differently from the individual. 
Groups have individuality, a personality of their own, and if we 
knew enough we might be able to test and classify them as we test 
and classify individual people. 
A group once formed tends to back itself against other groups, to 
get common ideas, feelings and purposes, to develop leaders. Conven- 
tions develop. Each member of the group has a loyalty to the group 
and acts as a group member. He takes on the coloring of his group. 
Psychologists in industry need to understand social psychology and 
the group mind. 
Routine, repetitive work processes give time for brooding and bore- 
dom. It is worthy of note that we can be unconsciously fatigued, but 
we cannot be unconsciously bored. Investigators have found that some 
people, about 3% do not suffer from boredom—today is another day 
and that is excitement in itself. About 3% are always bored and 
between these extremes are varying degrees of boredom. Since those 
who experience boredom are vastly in the majority, it is for those that 
some amelioration is necessary. Changes of work during the day has 
improved production records. We might well consider this problem 
in terms of returning veterans who have been flying in the skies above 
or sailing the seas on the surface or below or living in the jungles. 
They may need changes of work during the day. 
Why we work brings us to a list of incentives. The first motive 
to consider is the money to be earned. If there were time this could 
lead to a discussion of rates and methods of determining them. 
Second; though there arc lonely jobs, yet on the whole work involves 
the companionship of people of similar interests; work provides a 
ready-to-hand group. 
84 Third; with this companionship of equals, subordinates and authori- 
ties there are endless opportunities for sympathy, love, anger, elation 
and even envy and hatred—very human qualities. 
Fourth; in work there is a chance to express oneself and opportun- 
ity for ambition. 
Fifth; there is a satisfaction in the exercise of skill. 
Sixth; work may be a drug to keep oneself from one’s thoughts. 
Seventh; some people work hard in order to earn enough to do 
what they like after work hours. To earn and enjoy leisure. 
Veterans, too, will want to work for the same reasons. 
In conclusion I think it is safe to say that most industries think 
of the returning veteran program in these terms: Suppose the war 
were to end tomorrow, in the light of current company plans now and 
in the future what could we say to our returning veterans and where 
could we place each one? What arrangements would be necessary 
for their reabsorption for their and our good? 
It may be that numbers of industrial organizations will have to 
carry on with a lower standard of efficiency from many of the 
employees, but if more use is made of the available knowledge the worst 
consequences of this could be minimized. Still further applicatons 
of all we know about methods of work and training will be needed. 
The chance of those in executive positions to do work of the utmost 
value is greater than ever. 
Since the fear of unemployment has darkened the lives of many 
during the last 20 years, it ought to be possible to arrange that no 
one who is willing to work should be exposed to this fear. But there 
should not be substituted the dead hand of maximum security in one 
organization or department. Security of work for all, but work with 
prospects of vital development. 
Industrial psychology, if given support and sympathy equal to the 
mechanical side of trade, can point out vast new fields of knowledge 
to be applied and explored. I believe we should get thereby a new 
mental adjustment of all workers to our newly won liberties and our 
overly swift moving lives. 
The Chairman: ‘Thank you, Dr. Sharp. 
The next speaker from industry will be Mrs. Constance Steele, of 
Container Corporation of America. She will have a great deal of 
experience in dealing with veterans in the months to come, particularly 
the salaried personnel, and she has to figure out how to use these 
boys as they come back. 
Mrs. Steele: I feel like a very unprofessional person after Dr. 
Sharp’s story of percentages and psychological attitudes. I am not 
at home in this group, being neither a psychiatrist nor a psychologist. 
I can tell you briefly of a few problems—in fact, I hate to even 
mention them as problems, to begin with. I am going to take the 
very opposite stand. Colonel Weimer mentioned some very grave sins, 
85 I think, that were committed in one industrial firm. I hope they never 
will be committed in Container Corporation. They aren’t at this 
time. 
We have been striving for several months to so educate or bring 
into the thinking of all of our people the right attitude toward the 
returned veterans, and I think that the right attitude is one of sincere 
confidence. I don’t think we have a great deal to worry about these 
boys who have been considered physically and mentally fit for mili- 
tary service. Their attitudes were fine when they went into this life. 
On the whole (maybe I am being a bit too optimistic), we expect that 
same attitude when they return to us, and thus far our experiences 
have not proven that expectation to be wrong. 
I have had reports from various personnel managers in our plants. 
I don’t have the figures converted into percentages at all, but they 
have had some few experiences. One plant may have had a dozen 
people return out of 189 still in service; another has had half a 
dozen return out of 200 people. These things are not too significant, 
but as each individual has been taken care of, I think that he forecasts 
what we may expect in the future when the number becomes much 
greater. 
Without exception, each personnel manager in our various divisions 
reported those men who did return to us to be infinitely better men— 
stronger, more aggressive, more dependable. We don’t have trouble 
with absenteeism from those people. Many of them have received 
such fine additional training along special lines that we have put 
them, not in their old jobs, but in better jobs. 
Now, that all sounds good, thus far. It is small, I admit, represent- 
ing, perhaps, in our whole twenty-four plants, no more than one 
hundred people. But it still is a forecast of the future. We haven’t 
had returned to us any of those who have had terrific physical handi- 
caps, as yet. That is another chapter that I think we can only begin 
thinking about now. But we have had men who have been discharged, 
some psychoneurotics, others who just couldn’t stand the gaff of 
army life, some few with physical injuries, but without exception, 
they have fitted into the organization very creditably. 
How has that been accomplished? First of all, I think that we 
have tried to work as missionaries ont of our head office into these 
local plants, where these problems occur far more frequently than 
in our division of salaried people, and we have so instructed or guided 
our people, or let’s say stimulated them (we don’t instruct them) 
that, number one, the returned veteran must immediately be given 
a feeling of welcome, of security, he musn’t ever be exposed to the 
story that Col. Weimer gave of—“Oh, I wonder, Joe ... it’s good 
to have you back ... let me see . . . now, we’ll think about three days.” 
We have preached very definitely against that. He must be conscious 
immediately that Container Corporation, and every good industrial 
company, has a plan for his immediate reinstatement. If he wants 
his old job, it’s there, and his people are waiting for him to come back. 
But during that relaxed interview which we say must take place, 
he is urged to talk as freely as he may want to about his war experi- 
86 ences. We all feel that we shouldn’t avoid that sort of conversation. 
I think any good interviewer knows the type of person who wants to 
talk freely, and also any good interviewer will recognize the reticent, 
shy person who wants to avoid discussion of military experiences. Tims 
far, of the innumerable boys whom I have interviewed, who have either 
returned or who are on furlough, I would say about eighty per cent 
(that’s one of the few times I will go into percentages) want to talk 
in great detail about their experiences, and you can respect the 
reticence of the twenty per cent. 
So during that interview we do 'acquire a knowledge of what addi- 
tional skills they have acquired while in the army. I have a few 
examples here. They are simple things which all of you, I am sure, 
have encountered or will encounter. 
We had one young man—a piler. We are in the box business, and 
he simply stood at an end of the machine and piled sheets. He had 
been making, when he left, the magnificent sum (I’m afraid of men- 
tioning this in front of Mr. Levin and Bockstahler)—the magnificent 
sum of 67 cents per hour. He was in the army just about a year and 
received training as a mechanic on jeeps. Certainly we didn’t put 
him back as a piler. We put him in a maintenance crew. He is doing 
an excellent job, and his rate there ranges between 95 cents and $1.25 
an hour. (Too low, Mr. Levin says. It’s too bad our director of indus- 
trial relations isn’t here. Perhaps he would be telling me not to quote 
rates.) 
We have had several other experiences like that. Another man 
who had some experience and additional training in clerical work 
in the army (rather strangely, because he was what is known as a 
bundler in Container Corporation) came back and felt quite pleased 
about this opportunity he had to use his head rather than his hands. 
We put him in charge of a store room in a plant, where there is some 
necessary record keeping, at a considerably increased rate. (Discre- 
tion goes out from now on, Mr. Levin.) He is a very happy person. 
We have had others—another man who was discharged from the 
army for illiteracy, strangely. We rather doubt the truthfulness of 
that. At least, he seems to get along in life pretty well, but he couldn’t 
read or write. He is back, and also is a mechanic. He had had a 
hobby in life of working on old cars. Well, he’s in the maintenance 
crew of trucks, and doing a good job. 
I hope I don’t sound too ‘‘Pollyanna.” I will name you two that 
were somewhat problems. One was a young man who had served in 
Guadalcanal, was wounded, and returned to this country, spending a 
long time in a hospital. I think this was the chief problem: He left 
us an office boy. He was gone two years and some months, and I think 
that is the big problem that faces all of us—the increase in maturity 
that these boys go through, the additional experiences. I mean, you 
can’t put them back on their old jobs. I am thinking particularly of 
the people in whom I am interested—the salaried people—young men 
who have come to us out of college, perhaps, who have spent six 
months or a year, just beginning their training in the company, and 
87 left us and have become lieutenants and captains in the Air Corps, 
I think we are facing difficult problems of placement, at least, of being 
able to have enough jobs that will satisfy all of their energies and 
their abilities and their technical knowledge and their ability to super- 
vise people. But we are not discussing that today. We haven’t had 
those boys come back as yet. 
But this youngster who had travelled the far seas to Guadalcanal— 
we didn’t put him on as an office boy, but as a payroll clerk. He had 
some bookkeeping in his high school education. He was just a combat 
soldier in the army, and he had a difficult time in adjusting himself 
to a desk job. He wasn’t physically the sort of person who could go 
out into a plant. 
This is the way we handled that. During the first three or four 
months of difficult adjustment for him, we simply talked to him. He 
came over to my office, because the people in the plant there found 
it a little bit difficult to cope with him, and all that he needed was 
Dr. Burleigh Gardiner’s famous indirect type of interview. He wanted 
to talk about his travels. He wanted a job with Container, travelling. 
He wanted to be a salesman some day. He wanted to see more of the 
world. (He hadn’t seen enough in the Pacific, I guess.) 
Frankly, we found that through listening to him, telling him a 
little bit that he wasn’t ready for travelling yet, that that was very 
much in doubt—giving no false assurances that that would be in the 
future, but rather trying to convince him that there was a lot of 
basic work that had to be done to learn the business of Container 
Corporation—in a period of time, he became adjusted to the job itself, 
and with company activities and the friendly interest of other 
employees, he is a good citizen in Container Corporation today. 
I think the most important thing that all of us must remember is 
to interview these people when they return very thoroughly, to take 
recognition of what they have learned while they have been away, 
to make them feel that this job that they are coming back to is an 
important one. We are doing a great share toward this war effort 
in our box business, although it is considered a rather prosaic busi- 
ness, and for fear that this young man who has shed his uniform may 
feel a loss of importance in returning to an industry like ours, we 
make a point in that initial interview to emphasize the part that we 
have been playing during his years of being away in this whole war 
effort, so that he, too, can retain a feeling of importance. He is shown 
the boxes that have been sent to the front, and we outline again to 
him that we packaged those Ration K’s that he did or did not like— 
in general, just trying to give him that feeling of well-being and 
security and importance, which I think is so necessary to every good 
employee. 
I am not worried about these men. I think they are good. I think 
that if industry treats them with human kindness, no maudlin sym- 
pathy at all, gives them a warm, natural feeling of welcome, doesn’t 
try to handle them ... I mean, I don’t want to have any amateur 
psychiatrists. If you have a case that needs professional help, I 
88 think that is something we may all be looking forward to, in deference 
to this good Society that we are talking before. I imagine that there 
will be several problems that should require professional care, but I 
am dreadfully afraid of this propaganda feeling, toward the non- 
traincd person, of things that he must or must not do in talking to 
veterans. I think, by all means, be natural, and use your common 
sense. You use it in every other walk of life. Use your own good taste 
about the things that should or should not be discussed with the vet- 
eran. He is a human being who has done a splendid job. I think his 
adjustment was so much greater when he entered the war than when 
he is returning home, that I am not going to be too worried about it. 
(Applause) 
The Chairman: I want to thank Mrs. Steele for a note of con- 
fidence in the veterans. Since they are going to run the future world, 
I am glad that they can do it well. 
We will next hear from Mr. Robert Levin. He is Illinois Director 
of the National C. I. 0. War Relief Committee. He can tell us some- 
thing about what the unions are doing in this whole problem. 
Mr. Levin. 
Mr. Robert Levin: I would like to give away one little secret. 
Some of us on the panel had a meeting earlier in the week to talk 
over some of the material we might present here, and as you have 
seen from some of the statistics that have been presented, we do not 
as yet have a lot of experience with returned veterans in industry 
from which to speak. Therefore, we came to the conclusion that we 
really weren’t experts in this subject. We didn’t know quite what to 
do about that, because we knew that the experts were going to be 
sitting in the audience. 
For that reason, I would like to stick to presenting one point that 
we in the unions feel is important, and I will give you some back- 
ground on that point. That point is, from the point of view of mental 
hygiene, the readjustment of a person’s mental attitude is dependent 
upon a sound environmental background. If we create a sound environ- 
ment, the average veteran will be able to make his readjustment. 
Let us keep in mind the point that was made yesterday by one of 
the speakers. A psychoneurotic does not have some strange disease. 
It was stated that a psychoneurotic is merely a person who wasn’t 
adjustable to the business of the army, just as some people are not 
adjustable to the business of being physicians or lawyers or mechanics. 
So in presenting this, I could take you with me out to the plants 
and show you how this problem of readjustment in the environmental 
background is working. I would like to point out that it is not going 
to be those of us on the platform or those of us in this audience or 
the leaders of the community that are going to do the real job in 
readjusting the individual veteran. We can present to you what we 
feel, from the viewpoint of management and government and the 
union, is the proper way of handling a readjustment. But the real 
job is being done today out in the plants, by workers and foremen. 
89 Now, how do we organize those people? How do we go into those 
plants and make them see the problems? And how do we organize 
industry in our society so that we can integrate the returning veteran 
with this sound background? 
In other words, we cannot have a professional handling of each 
individual veteran, but we as leaders can attempt to create an environ- 
ment where they can readjust. 
In giving the union viewpoint on this, I would like to first emphasize 
again that this returning veteran is not abnormal. We are very 
happy that this problem of mental attitude readjustment, of mental 
hygiene, and of mental health in industry has come up so thoroughly 
and so strongly at this time. There has always been a problem of 
mental hygiene in industry. People have not recognized it. Now that 
the veteran is coming back, and the problem is more serious, we hope 
that there will be a broad recognition of it, that mental hygiene of 
all workers will be considered. We feel that the type of discussion 
we are having today is sound assistance to all of industrial relations 
and to all people, because it will encourage thinking on the part of 
management, unions, and other groups, of the importance of mental 
hygiene. The unions have been fighting for a long time for good 
physical health conditions in the plants, and management and govern- 
ment have been cooperating in raising these standards tremendously. 
Up until now we have not gone into this other field. 
There are several important steps in creating a sound background 
so that the readjustment can take place out there in the shops. One 
of the important things, we in the unions feel, is to create a good 
labor-management cooperation in the handling of the problem. Just 
yesterday, a shop steward reported to me an incident in one of the 
plants that will point up this problem of labor-management coopera- 
tion. A veteran had come back, applied for work, talked it over with 
the personnel department. I don’t know what went on in that per- 
sonnel department, but his ease must have been handled very well, 
because he was placed to work in a tool crib. The shop steward work- 
ing in that part of the plant one day noticed that this man fell asleep 
in the afternoon. He didn’t say much to him, but the man began 
to sleep for fifteen minutes during the day now and then, and you 
could never tell when he would do it. The steward knew he might 
get into trouble over that sort of thing, so in a friendly fashion, as 
a fellow worker and as a leader of that working group, he suggested 
that perhaps he ought to get a little more sleep at night. The veteran 
explained the situation to him, and for want of a better term, the 
shop steward told me the veteran had sleeping sickness of some sort. 
I don’t know specifically what the trouble was, but because of illnesses 
he had gotten in the South Pacific, this man lapsed into a form of 
unconsciousness of some sort for fifteen minutes. I don’t know the 
medical background. They had placed him where he could do a job 
and where he would not harm himself or others because of his dis- 
ability. That was good, but the workers around him were not pre- 
pared for this sort of thing. The shop steward knew how to handle it, 
but there should have been in the beginning a labor-management 
90 cooperation on that, so the shop steward could have done his part in 
adjusting that man and the other workers to him. 
Not every veteran who comes to the plant should be whispered 
about as to what sort of a problem he has and what to watch out for. 
That’s exactly the opposite of what should be done, and for that 
reason this example might be a little poor. But the problem will best 
be solved by the workers and the management getting together and 
adjusting the problems as they arise. 
I was also asked before this panel to check on some of our plants 
and find out about these rumors of veterans job-skipping. We find 
that in general there is a tremendous amount of job-skipping among 
veterans. There are several reasons for this, and one of them is a 
legal one. The civilian worker who has not been in the armed services 
is frozen in his job. He must get a release before going somewhere 
else to work. In other words, his possibilities of job-skipping, if he 
doesn’t like the physical or psychological environment of his job, are 
pretty limited. He cannot jump from job to job. The veteran is not 
under these restrictions. He is specifically exempted from having to 
get a release, so that he can go from one job to another. Therefore it 
might not be as serious a matter as it appears—we don’t have a good 
comparison between the veteran and the civilian. 
However, we do feel it is serious because it is more than what you 
would think of as normal job-skipping. Now, what are the reasons 
for this? Some of these have already been brought out. The best one 
was the example expressed earlier, of a man who was a file clerk, spent 
three years in the army and became an expert on machinery, and 
then came back and got his old job back. Naturally, there is a malad- 
justment there, and he will leave that clerical job and try again. 
Thus, some of the job-skipping is caused by plant management 
attempting to live up to the letter of the law requiring that they give 
the man his job back, but doing no more than that. The law says 
that the veteran must have a job equal to the job he had before he 
went into the army. It doesn’t say you must adjust that to the experi- 
ence the man has had in the interim, or the many other factors that 
are involved in reemployment after a period of absence. 
Then there is another reason. I have talked to a lot of our veterans 
in many different industries to get their answers as to why they were 
leaving jobs and what they thought about when they came back to 
our plants, and one of the explanations given, interestingly enough, 
is that they are leaving jobs because they are discontented with that 
plant, with the working conditions there. They go elsewhere. The 
main reason given is that they want higher wages. To some extent, 
we feel that this is because of the picture that has been painted for 
the service man of the tremendous income a civilian is getting today. 
He thinks that we are rolling in wealth, to some degree. He was told 
that time and again while he was overseas. Then he is discharged, 
and he comes back to work in a plant, and they don’t give him those 
fabulous wages. He says, “Well, there’s something wrong with this 
plant,” and he goes on to another one, and he goes on to a third. 
91 That might not be the major factor, but we are convinced that that 
is a real basis for job-skipping today—the wrong impression the vet- 
eran and the service man has been given as to the wage structure 
in this country. 
In creating a sound background and a sound environment for people 
to readjust in, the problem of the veteran-union conflict, so called, 
will be important. Actually, this problem does not loom as a conflict 
when you face it. It is not as serious as some people would try to 
make it. The problem is in the matter of seniority. As you all know, 
seniority is looked upon by a working man as his personal property. 
It is the only thing he owns. It is his only security. That is why, 
when working men get together to form unions, seniority becomes 
their basis of operation. 
Now, what happens when a veteran returns? How are we going to 
solve the problem of integrating him into the industry in relation to 
the seniority of the people already there? 
I would like to state the general principles upon which labor is 
operating, and then I would like to point out to you that even these 
do not cover the entire problem. 
First of all, if a man had worked in a plant for ten years, and 
then was drafted, and spent three years in the army, and then was 
released and came back to his plant, the union says to management, 
that man does not have ten years seniority, he has thirteen years. 
In other words, seniority continues accumulating while a man is in 
the armed service. 
Then we ran into one other problem. The army finds that the 
eighteen-year-old is the best soldier. They therefore take these fel- 
lows as soon as they come out of high school, or even before. Well, 
now, take two high school graduates. One went into the army, and 
the other, because of a physical disability, went into industry. Three 
years afterwards, the one in industry would have three years seniority, 
three years experience in industry. The man that went from high 
school right into the army never had a job before. What happens to 
him when he comes back? 
The CIO position on this is that after he gets a job in a plant, he 
automatically has the amount of seniority that he would have, had 
he been working throughout his period in the army. Therefore, he 
and the fellow that did not get in the army can start out on an equal 
footing on the seniority problem. 
We do not believe in the super-seniority-for-veterans schemes that 
have been brought forward. We do not believe in these, not for a 
selfish reason, but because we feel they are going to cause chaos and 
will be impossible to administer. They will be bad for the working- 
people, they will be bad for the veteran before and after he becomes 
a working person, and they will be bad for the stability of the coun- 
try. I can show you the problem that lies behind this. 
There is one plant in New Jersey employing two thousand people. 
To date, six thousand men have passed through that plant into the 
92 armed forces. The law says each person has a right to his job back. 
How are we going to solve that? That one example will show yon 
that we cannot solve these problems on the basis of seniority, of 
forcing people to give jobs in certain industries, and so forth. It is 
a problem that we must adjust on an overall pattern. You can ask 
me many questions as to what to do on seniority in this instance 
and that instance. For every question you ask, we are asking our- 
selves about ten, because this is a very complex problem. 
In addition to that problem, the average veteran is not, perhaps, 
going to want to go back to his old industry, to the job that he had, 
that the law guarantees him. 
So all these factors enter, and I think you can see from that, that 
the problem of seniority versus reemployment of the veteran does not 
become as big a bogeyman as many would have it be. It is only a 
small part of an extremely complex problem. 
What is the solution to that bigger problem? Every veteran has 
a right to and must have a job when he comes back. He shouldn’t 
throw other people out of jobs. 
The answer to that has already been mentioned. We must have 
industry, labor, and the government get together to form a plan that 
will work, that will guarantee an economy that will give us sixty 
million jobs, so that every veteran can get the type of job that he 
wants without displacing other people and causing industrial chaos. 
How this is going to be done should be debated elsewhere, but I think 
it is important that we see here that for sound mental readjustment 
for the veteran, for giving him a job, this is a crucial point. It enters 
our discussions of mental hygiene and it will be basic to the readjust- 
ment problem. It was not solved thoroughly after the last war, and 
we have seen some of the wreckage that has been caused by that 
problem. 
There is one other point that the unions feel will be involved in 
gaining a better atmosphere in the plants. A veteran coming back 
feels he has a right to a job; he feels he has a right to a decent 
society and to real security in that society. He wants to be a part of 
that society. Well, if he comes back and gets a job and even gets 
adjusted to it, turning screw number six on assembly line number five 
in plant number four in area two of some great national corporation, 
he is not going to feel much as if he is part of that society. He is a 
cog in a machine. As an answer to that problem and as an answer 
to many other problems, the C. I. 0. is instituting what we call a 
union counselling plan. It is something that workers have needed 
for a long time, but it is something that, again, is brought to a head 
by the needs of the veterans in industry. The average worker doesn’t 
know and the average veteran won’t know that there are groups in 
the community that can help him with the types of problems that 
he will be facing. He doesn’t know where to turn, he doesn’t know* 
what phone number to call, he doesn’t know that there are certain 
benefits that he never heard about that can meet his specific problem. 
For that reason, we hope to have in the very near future, in every 
department in every C. I. 0. plant, a union counselor. This counselor 
93 goes through a six-week training in which we try to give him, with 
the cooperation of Councils of Social Agencies, universities, and others 
who are supplying our instructors, a background in community organi- 
zation, in what facilities are available, and most of all, in how to use 
central information centers, in how to steer a person to them, in how 
to get that person to feel that the community is interested in him, 
that the community has agencies to solve his problems and that he 
can go to them, and that he has a right to them. That is what we want 
our counselors to be able to do. 
We have already instituted this program in the major cities of 
the country. We have started here, with the cooperation of the Chi- 
cago Council of Social Agencies, and the classes are already running 
and in several plants the procedure is already under way. Your 
veteran will have a person who is trained as a community person, 
working right with him on the machines. This man will not be inter- 
ested in prying into his personal affairs, but if the veteran has a 
problem, this person will represent the community in saying, “We 
are interested in you and will try to find a way to solve your prob- 
lem,” and he will see that he gets to the agency, and will follow up 
to see that the agency does give him the service that the veteran has a 
right to have. This is, we feel, one of the real advances in trade 
Unionism. 
I mentioned earlier labor-management cooperation in solving the 
veteran problem. I know that all branches of labor feel that this is 
the basis of a possibility of solution. As yet, there are some indus- 
tries—and I don’t need to name some of the outstanding ones—that 
don’t quite believe in that approach. In those instances we are a 
little suspicious of what is going to happen to the veteran. We are 
suspicious for two reasons: first, because in those industries, the 
attitude that has been expressed by your industrial representatives 
here has not been incorporated into their practices and philosophy 
in the past. That is, they have not looked upon the working person 
as more than a unit of production. They have not realized that in 
addition to that, he is a human being, that he not only might have 
physical problems, but that he has mental hygiene problems, that 
they must be solved, that he must be handled as more than a unit of 
production. We have seen these problems in many plants. It is that 
lack of understanding of mental hygiene of a worker, a problem that 
a machine does not have, that has caused a lot of the industrial con- 
flict. Therefore, if the mental hygiene attitude in approaching prob- 
lems has not been incorporated into industrial relations in the past, 
we are suspicious that it won’t be, in many industries, in relation 
to the veteran in the future. There will be an expressed interest in 
the veteran, but it will be this sort of thing: “The world is yours, 
boys, but I can’t give you a job in this specific instance,” and so 
forth. These examples have already been given by others on the 
platform. 
This is thus another way in which youn groups can help—by empha- 
sizing in industrial relations that mental hygiene is important. The 
unions are working on this as hard as possible, because we feel we 
94 can do much to help in the readjustment of the veteran if we get more 
and more of industry to recognize that problem. 
The second reason for our suspicion is in the legal field. As yet, 
we have not had a great deal of experience in it, but we have had 
a few good examples of the union’s having to go in and fight for 
the rights of a veteran, because management did not want to give 
him his rights. The most famous case, the test case which will be 
going to the Supreme Court, is now being fought by the National 
C. I. 0. War Relief Committee. Our national chairman is a special 
adviser to the Court, because of the seriousness of the problem. Again, 
it is a man in New Jersey. He went back to get his job back. He was 
discharged from the Army because of flat feet. He had had flat feet 
all of his life. He had this job for several years, and had gotten along 
all right on it with flat feet. When he came back to the plant and 
got a physical examination in the plant, they said, “You have a right 
to your old job, but you are not in physical condition for it. You 
were discharged from the army for flat feet, and you are not in good 
condition. We can’t give you that job back.” 
That is an outstanding example, and we think we can broaden 
the interpretation of the law to give a disabled veteran—much more, 
one who didn’t get his disability in the army—a better break in indus- 
try. That is a test case being fought to make sure that a veteran does 
get a good break, so that a man who used to work on a machine 
that took both arms, if he loses one arm, will be transferred to another 
machine. It is not in the law, but he certainly has that right, and 
the unions are fighting to protect this man. That is a legal case we 
are fighting. This legal ease is only one out of a thousand. The others 
are handled through the usual grievance procedures in the plants. 
A good example that we have in a small community in this state 
is of a returned Negro veteran who had been on the islands in the 
Pacific for quite some time, and had been subjected to serious bomb- 
ing, and so forth. This man was put back to work in the plant. They 
gave him a job in the boiler room, where the temperature was 110 
degrees and there was deafening noise. He quit within a week. It 
was not management’s fault, theoretically. The union had that man 
reinstated and put in a different type of job. 
That is why it is so important that the union, which is consciously 
interested in the mental hygiene, in the physical health, and in the 
well-being of every worker, veteran or otherwise—that the union be 
in on the planning and the solving of these problems. If the union 
and management get together, I think out there in industry we are 
going to be able to solve the problem for the individual man. 
In conclusion, there is one point that I would like to make, and 
that is, with these fifteen million or more veterans coming back, in 
our creation of a social environment in which they can readjust, 
that is a large number of people, and they are not the only ones 
whose mental hygiene must be protected and who must readjust. 
Those of us who are here and never went to war are going to have 
to readjust mentally to them. We must keep in mind that there is a 
95 readjustment on our part. Particularly in the unions, we are aware 
of this. These men are going to come back feeling they have a right 
to a job. It has been pointed out that they are not going to allow for 
dilly-dallying—they are used to military precision—and we find that 
the veterans who are already working in our plants and are members 
of the unions are the most vociferous against the delays in the present 
industrial relations set-up. War workers who have been in industry 
and have seen this thing develop, can be kept from walking out on 
wildcat strikes because there lias been a delay in government pro- 
cedures in getting a justified raise within the Little Steel formula, 
even, over maybe two or three years. Well, the veteran is used to the 
army way of doing things, and he is not going to sit by and watch 
industrial relations handled in that way. 
As a result, two things are going to happen. We who have been 
union leaders during the period that the veterans have been in the 
army will have to realize that they are going to make excellent union 
men, that there are going to be a lot of them, that they are going to 
be the most articulate, that they are going to be the majority and 
that they will become the union leaders in representing the workers 
in order to get this full employment and these better conditions when 
the war is over. 
We have to readjust to that, and we are anxious to do it. 
The second point involved in this is that we feel the veteran can 
be an extremely beneficial addition to the mental hygiene of this 
country, if he becomes a part of our society in that way. If we chan- 
nelize his feeling that we must have a sound society, that he has a 
right to it—if we channelize that and use it constructively, that vet- 
eran can be a leader, not only in the unions, but throughout society, 
to make sure that we get it. If we approach this thing soundly, if we 
do it constructively and cooperatively between all groups in society, 
the veteran can be a constructive element, can assist us, can lead 
us in making sure that we get this program of sixty million jobs 
and a full security for all the citizens of this country. 
That, then, is pretty much the union viewpoint on this problem. 
The union viewpoint, of course, is developed from our interest in the 
problem of individual workers, and in trying to work it out in the 
plant, and through the general economy of the nation. 
I think I have emphasized the mental hygiene approach to this, 
but I think you will all agree that mental hygiene for the average 
person is not an abnormal thing. It is the difference between pneu- 
monia and a cold. The veteran working in the plant will have a 
“cold.” You professional psychiatrists will have to take care of the 
man with “pneumonia,” but in industry we are going to have to 
give the background for curing that type of thing that you would call 
a “cold.” 
We must realize that it is not something abnormal, that the solution 
can come, and must come, through a good, sound approach and a good, 
sound economy when the war is over. (Applause) 
96 The Chairman: Mr. Levin’s remarks imply also that the present 
union leadership will probably be pushed out if they don’t get action. 
Next will be Mr. Bockstahler, Regional Director of the Labor 
League for Human Rights of the United States, A. F. of L. He will 
continue giving us some of the union point of view. 
Mr. Bockstahler: I would like to start out by saying that I am 
not a psychiatrist, or even a psychologist. I have been attempting 
to do a little work with the social service or social agency end of 
this, and I don’t know very much about mental hygiene yet. 
Time is fleeting. I understand that there is to be some time left 
for a discussion period. In order to go into a lot of detail, I would 
probably have to reiterate a lot of what Mr. Levin has said. I think, 
in order to save time and expedite matters generally, and give you 
experts out there the chance that you are probably waiting for to 
take a poke at us, I will cut it down very short. 
I have to corroborate Mr. Levin’s statements, by and large, with 
a very few exceptions, and that comes about not because of any 
definite disagreement in so far as labor policy is concerned, but due 
to the setup of both organizations. The C. I. 0. is a unilateral 
organization. The A. F. of L. happens to be made up of craft organi- 
zations. That is the only difference in so far as the operation of our 
various organizations are concerned, especially the organizations that 
we both represent—the C. I. 0. War Relief, and the Labor League 
for Human Rights—which are set up attempting to coordinate labor’s 
efforts in all community endeavors. 
We have been working very closely with the veterans’ organization 
from the craft union standpoint, with the U. S. E. S., and with the 
War Manpower Commission in their various activities. I think this 
can be substantiated by Colonel Weimer; also by people connected 
with these various organizations. Through the War Manpower Com- 
mission, we have people out of various organizations that are working 
up training programs to assist the veterans upon their return. In 
most of the agencies comprising these various units, you will find 
labor people aiding and assisting the returning veteran in attempt- 
ing to locate himself in the spot where he best fits on his return from 
overseas duties. 
Bob mentioned to you the C. I. 0. plan of union counseling. We, 
too, have a similar plan, only it is worked on a little different basis 
because of the difference in the setup of the two organizations. I am 
not going to go into much more detail, but I would like to stress one 
point that Bob made, and that is, the labor-management committees, 
but I think in this particular circumstance, it should be broadened 
to include everybody who is interested in this particular phase of 
the activities—the social workers, the mental hygiene organizations. 
From an educational standpoint, it should even be brought down to 
the mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters of the returning 
service men, so that situations such as have been described here this 
morning can be curtailed, if possible, or minimized greatly, so that 
97 a returned vet, when he does come back, can do as he sees fit to do, 
and will be put in the best possible spot that is available at the time. 
Colonel Weimer used a term that I think fits very ably into this 
whole session, and that is, esprit de corps—fellowship among men. 
I think if that particular point is taken to heart and followed through 
very closely and very carefully, the life of the returning vet can be 
made a lot better, and his good-will given to all of us. 
I don’t know of anything more to say other than to reiterate the 
fact that that particular coordination of all these committees into 
one single unit, if possible, for the advancement of the welfare of the 
returning vet, specifically at this particular stage, should be upper- 
most in all of our minds. 
Thank you. (Applause) 
The Chairman : At this moment I face the irrepressible impulse 
to add my few words of wisdom. 
It seems to me that one theme runs through the discussion this 
morning—that we need sympathetic understanding, an attitude of 
sympathetic understanding toward the veteran, a feeling that we must 
all pull together, that it is not a job to be left to the federal agencies. 
Colonel Werner may find a job for a veteran, but from then on he 
has to still make adjustments. That isn’t the adjustment, that’s the 
beginning. The personnel departments can marshall facilities of their 
companies, of their employment people, and so on. That is just the 
first step. The unions can have their counselors in the shop, working 
alongside of the veterans. If it is all pulled together, you have a 
chance of creating this social atmosphere in which readjustment can 
take place. 
Take the story of Colonel Weimer: He is speaking to the veteran. 
He sees a symbol of the thing that is important, that badge of merit. 
He mentions it, and the veteran is pleased, he lights up. Somebody 
recognized the things that mean something to him. And then his 
mother said, “I gave my son”—thinking of herself, not of the boy. 
Now, I think the most important thing for the adjustment of any 
person, at work or at home, is this social atmosphere. Mrs. Steele 
touched on that point of confidence that they could adjust, that there 
would not be problems, that they were people you would be glad to 
have back. It’s all right to face the fact of the problem, but if you 
set up an atmosphere of expected maladjustments, expected failure, 
they will fail. Any person in this room who takes a job where those 
around him, his superiors or equals, expect him to fail, will usually 
fail. I have seen it happen again and again. A social atmosphere 
in which adjustment can take place is essential. It can’t be done 
authoritatively from above. The government can’t order it. Manage- 
ment can’t order it. The union can’t order it. The people down there, 
the circle in which you move, have to act in such a way as to produce it. 
How can we act towards the veterans in such a way that they 
will feel that they are normal people who have done a job that people 
recognize, that people have some feeling of the importance of it, and 
98 that now they can come back and get into the old routines of civilian 
life? These are very trying experiences they have gone through, so 
we say, don’t talk about them, let them forget it. The man who forgets 
those trying experiences is only forgetting it as a neurotic escape 
from reality. You don’t want to forget it. What you want to do is 
learn how to live with the fact that those things did exist and hap- 
pened to you. You only have to go to the Freudian psychoanalysis 
to see what a traumatic experience that has been repressed can do 
to you years later. 
Now, I would like to put in my little plug for one approach to this 
problem, referring to work that has been done by Professor Carl 
Rogers, who will be with the University of Chicago next year, in 
the development of an approach to counseling with veterans, to coun- 
seling with other people, to assist in the adjustment. It is an approach 
that can be applied in everyday life, and it amounts to one thing. 
You are interested, first, in the other person, his experiences, his 
ideas, his problems. You have humility about it, and you do not 
freely tell people what they ought to do. It is very nice to sit back 
and say what we are going to do to help the veteran adjust. The 
veteran has to make his own adjustment. We will build a social 
atmosphere in which that can take place, and can occasionally, very 
occasionally, lift a guiding hand. The professionals can say, ‘‘Well, 
this kind of job would fit your interests, and that wouldn’t.” Most 
of us will give so much advice that the veterans will have to rebel 
against it and just tell us all where to go. 
Now, I would like to emphasize the importance of this feeling that 
we don’t have the answers for them, and all we can do is act in such 
a way that they can feel free to talk, free to think, and free to work 
out their own problems. Dr. Rogers is training people for the U. S. 0. 
at the moment, to work in the service centers, helping veterans to 
think out their own problems, not guiding them, not telling them how 
they ought to think, not saying, “You poor boy! Don’t you feel too 
bad?”; not saying, “Well, you ought not feel that way about it”; 
just letting them do their own thinking. 
That is very near to my heart, since I had many years’ experience 
in an industrial concern that has a program of that sort as a regular 
part of their personnel program. They have their counselors who do 
not advise, do not tell, do not give the answers. They let the person 
work out his own salvation through the use of a skill in which they 
are trained. 
- Are there any questions? 
Col. Weimer: Professor, may I have the opportunity of answer- 
ing a question which was brought up? 
I feel it as almost a personal obligation—my gratitude toward 
the A. F. of L., the C. I. 0., the corporations represented by Dr. Sharp 
and Mrs. Steele, for their splendid cooperation with veterans. But 
that gratitude doesn’t blind me to this, that two of the speakers have 
given you the idea that these returning veterans are a lot of flibber- 
tigibbets who hop around from one job to another. 
99 I want to admit that when I was twenty or twenty-one years old, 
I had a lot of jobs, and I didn’t have the excuse of a war for my 
apparent instability. And there are a lot of other men of my age now 
who will frankly admit the same thing. 
I want also to admit this, that is prevalent to a certain degree even 
within the armed services themselves. 
There is a story about the sailor who went to the Pearly Gates, 
and the assistant gatekeeper said, “Hi, St. Peter, there’s a Navy 
man out here,” and St. Peter said, “What Navy?” He said, “Amer- 
ican.” St. Peter said, “Well, let him in. But you know what these 
sailors are like. He’ll be putting in for a transfer in three months.” 
(Laughter) 
But I would like to point this out to you. I told you about having 
men in these hospitals who register these boys for work, and this 
is our experience, that men who have been in boot camp or basic 
training and are discharged during that period, will go back to their 
old jobs, in 75 per cent of the cases. The longer they are away from 
the old jobs, the fewer there are who are certain of going back to 
them. Among men who have been in service a year, one or two 
years, about half of them being discharged are positive that they are 
going to go back to their old jobs. Among men in service over two 
years, it runs about 40 per cent who are positive of going back to 
their old jobs. 
Well, here’s the kind of thing that happens. Here’s a kid discharged 
at Great Lakes, and he goes back to his old job, and one of the men 
in the shop says to him, “What are you doing out of uniform?” 
He tells him the truth, that he was discharged because of stomach 
ulcers. He says, “How do you get ulcers eating the best food in the 
world? Don’t give me that.” 
So the boy thinks, “Is this the kind of business I’m going to get 
from Frank and Jim and Andy and the rest of them around here? 
The hell with them. I quit.” 
Another boy comes back to a job, and before he went into the 
service he had trained a new man to take his place. He goes back on 
the job, only to discover that this fellow he remembers as a green- 
horn is now his boss, and he says, “Well, this is no good. I quit.” 
Another boy comes back, and he finds that he has got a boss now 
who is as young as he is, who is in sound health, and who has appar- 
ently, in his mind at least, been unjustly deferred from military 
service, and he says, “I’m not going to work for a guy like that.” 
I am trying to point out to you that some of these things have a 
definite reason, a good reason, and it is up to somebody other than 
the veteran to try to correct them. 
Here’s another thing. Esquire Magazine sent a letter out to some 
three thousand men who are on their subscription list, and who are 
also in service, asking what kind of work they wanted, and the 
magazine had in mind trying to start, through their advertisers and 
other big firms, to provide job opportunities for these men. Thirty- 
100 four per cent of the replies they got said, “I don’t want a job. I 
want a business of my own.” 
Now, that percentage is rather high, and it would be higher, per- 
haps, than among the average group of other magazine readers, 
because, after all, that magazine costs a lot of money. But here’s 
the thing: among those 34 per cent there was a definite group of 
men who had thought things over carefully and who had planned 
definitely on going into business for themselves. There was another 
group who were just fed up with taking orders, and there was still 
another group, like the boy I mentioned, who feared that if they went 
back to a job they would have to take orders from some man who, 
they thought, should have been in the military or naval service. 
The Army itself made a checkup on this thing, and found, last 
June, that eleven per cent of all men in the Army hoped some day 
to have a business of their own, and the sooner the better. Now, 
that percentage was probably boosted considerably by the passage 
of the GI bill, which, under title 3, offers loan guarantees for men 
who want to have businesses of their own. 
So you have this effect on some of the boys that come back. They 
do want to make all the money they can, on a job, to build up a 
little nest egg for this business that they hope to enter into. That is 
something that probably could be determined at the time of their 
employment, and that could be given general recognition. 
Here is one good thing I do want to boast about a little bit. One 
of the largest corporations in America has been keeping a check on 
the returning disabled veterans, and they have found that the attitude 
of that disabled veteran toward supervision is per cent better 
than that of the average working man working for them. I don’t 
think that’s a high figure, because these men have learned how to 
respect authority, and as long as their supervisors do things that 
are worthy of respect, they will get that respect. 
I know an employer in Chicago who has another plant outside 
of Chicago, who now has 40 per cent of his male working force of 
returned veterans. He says he is going to increase that as much as 
he can as soon as he can, because he likes them and they are deliv- 
ering the goods. 
Now, I admit there are boys who are hard to place. One of the 
gentlemen mentioned the air force boys. I had a boy come in to me 
who went from Harvard directly into the Army Air Force. He got 
a string of Zeros to his credit. He operated as a fighter pilot. He 
had command of no one but himself in his own ydane, yet he was 
discharged as a major, he is twenty-four years old, and his income 
as a major, with flying pay, with allowances, is over six hundred 
dollars a month. He’s a swell kid. He says, “I don’t want to make 
this tough on anybody. I’ll take any kind of a job. I’ll be a butcher 
or a bookkeeper, for six hundred bucks a month. I was worth that 
to the Army. I ought to be worth that to somebody else.” 
Well, you can explain to a man like that that when an employer 
lays out money, whether it’s a hundred or six hundred a month, he 
101 is making an investment in labor on which he expects to get a return. 
And you can say to him, “Let’s dig into you and pull out what 
you’ve got inside of you and see what’s worth six hundred to an 
employer.” You can’t make him happy doing that. And you can 
suggest ways of upgrading himself by taking some technical train- 
ing, perhaps, over and above what he received in the armed forces, 
that would guarantee his receiving a larger salary than any that 
might at the moment be open to him. But those six hundred dollar 
a month jobs are not so easy to find. 
We have got this kind of a condition, too, that helps to explain 
why some of these employees don’t find things to their liking, and 
that is the thing I talked about before—the pressure at home. I had 
a man call me up, and he said, “Look, I sent my boy to college, and 
I had him take up chemistry for two years, and then the war came 
along and he enlisted in the Navy, and he’s back home now. He’s 
married. He can’t get along on the government allowance for train- 
ing. It isn’t enough, and he won’t borrow the rest of the money from 
me. Now,” he said, “the only sensible thing is for that boy to get 
a job where he can capitalize on this two years of chemistry he’s 
had, and I want you to back me up.” 
I said, “I’m going to back up the boy.” 
He said, “What do you mean?” 
I said, “Well, if I’m backing up the boy, I can back you up.” 
He said, ‘ ‘ That’s swell. ’ ’ 
“But,” I said, “You sent him to college. You had him take up 
chemistry. I don’t know whether he cares two cents about it or not. 
We are going to give him a test to find out what he is interested in, 
and get him that kind of a job. We want him to take the kind of a 
job that he is willing to be working at five years from now, ten years 
from now, in a field that he thinks he is going to like. And if he won’t 
like chemistry, he won’t get that kind of a job, as far as we are con- 
cerned. He will have to get somebody else to help him do it. ’ ’ 
I hope nobody gets the impression that a majority of these veterans 
are hopping around from one place to another. Otherwise, a man 
like this man I told you about couldn’t have built up his force where 
forty per cent of his male working force were returned vets. 
That’s about all I had in mind at the moment. I don’t know whether 
I have made my point, but I have tried to. 
Me. Levin: Colonel Weimer has emphasized a point that is ex- 
tremely important. We are going to spend two days discussing the 
problems of the returning veteran, and with such emphasis on that 
problem, it is apt to become overemphasized in our minds. 
On this problem of job-skipping, as it has been pointed out, there 
are many restless people today. They are not only veterans, but the 
veteran is the only one that is allowed to change from one job to 
another. That factor throws our statistics away off. I think it is 
important to emphasize that we don’t want to overemphasize the 
problem of the veteran. 
102 The Chairman: Are there any questions from the floor? 
Mr. Christian A. Ruckmick (Supervisor of Training, Chicago & 
North Western Ry., Chicago) : By the same token as given by the 
last speaker—overemphasis—may we not be overemphasizing the war 
veteran as a whole? That is, I am old enough as a psychologist to 
know that we did the same thing as a child psychologist, years ago 
when we started child psychology. Some eminent authority started 
the progressive school and we had progressive education and we almost 
asked the child what he wanted to study next before we put him along 
in the grade. 
Now, is there any danger at the present time, in spending two days 
—books are written, lots of literature, current effort—that we are 
paying more attention to the war veteran than we should, that we 
should be re-educating and readjusting ourselves to the veteran, espe- 
cially the people with whom he is going to work, and not focus on 
him the attention of the people in the shop or in the office or anywhere 
else? He doesn’t want it. He wants to be left alone, doesn’t he? 
I think I would like to hear from the Colonel on that. He seems to 
be closest to the heart of the veteran. Am I wrong? Is there danger 
of overemphasis of attention to the veteran? 
Col. Weimer: I think I have tried to point out some of the things 
that a veteran thinks are right, and some of them that he thinks are 
wrong. He thinks it is wrong if he has to come back to work in the 
groove that he worked before when a fellow that he trained and he 
knew as a greenhorn has a better job. He wants something done about 
it. If he gets somebody to do something about it, he doesn’t think 
that’s coddling. Do you? 
Mr. Ruckmick : No. I mean overattention on the floor—girls gath- 
ering around, other men, that sort of thing. 
Col. Weimer: Well, there’s a manpower shortage. (Laughter) 
It’s true, I know of one or two cases where boys very definitely 
have had their heads completely turned by overattention. They have 
had the Local Chamber of Commerce give them a banquet and play 
them up, and local papers have carried news stories about them, and 
they have completely changed the attitude of that man within this 
period that these occasions were going on, until he got to the point 
where perhaps he was demanding attention from everybody. I regret 
to see that, and I know that most veterans regret to see it. 
I don’t know whether that answer is just what you have in mind. 
The Chairman: We are about ready to have the twelve o’clock 
program. I’m sorry, there will be no time for more discussion. 
I want to thank the members of the panel very much for presenting 
their views and illuminating ideas. 
103 ROUND TABLE DISCUSSION 
on 
EMOTIONAL ASPECTS OF PROBLEMS IN EDUCATION 
Mr. Cyril 0. Houle : Chairman 
Executive Secretary of the Committee on University College, Uni- 
versity of Chicago. 
Mr. Lester Schloerb ; 
Director of Occupational Research, Chicago Board of Education. 
Mr. John White: 
Coordinator of Veterans’ Program, Illinois Institute of Technology. 
Miss Alice Farquhar : 
Chief of Adult Education Department, Chicago Public Library. 
104 The Chairman : The general theme of this conference is readjust- 
ing with the returning serviceman from war-time living to peace-time 
living. We must take into consideration the emotional as well as the 
physical and material needs of soldier and civilian; the conditioning 
of the civilian for the soldier’s return and the renaturalization of 
the soldier. This particular round table discussion will deal with the 
emotional aspects of the educational problems which will be created 
by the returning serviceman. 
I should like to make it clear that we are attempting to focus our 
discussion on the emotional aspects of these problems. This round 
table will be extremely informal, as you can tell by the fact that the 
Chairman is sitting down. We hope that after brief presentations on 
our part you will help us discuss the emotional problems which have 
been raised by the several difficulties we think the returning service- 
man will have. 
My first responsibility is to introduce my colleagues on this panel 
so that you will know who they are. Then, I shall present a few 
figures after which each of them will speak briefly. Following that, 
we will go into a discussion of the problems that have been raised by 
our several presentations. At this point I think I should say that any 
resemblance between the list of the people in the program and those 
actually before you is purely coincidental. 
On my right is Miss Alice Farquhar, who is Chief of the Adult 
Education Department of the Chicago Public Library. Miss Farquhar 
would like to have it made clear that she is not representing merely 
the Chicago Public Library or indeed, any library or librarians, but 
all workers in adult education. 
On my left is Mr. Lester Schloerb who is Director of Occupational 
Research, Chicago Board of Education. He would like to have it 
thoroughly understood he does not represent the Naperville or Chi- 
cago Boards of Education, but all public schools everywhere. 
The third person is Mr. John White, who is Coordinator of the Vet- 
erans’ Program at the Illinois Institute of Technology. Mr. White 
would like to have me make it perfectly clear he does not represent 
the Illinois Institute of Technology, but instead all colleges and 
universities everywhere. 
Professor Rosecrance, in his speech yesterday, made an analysis 
of the extent of the problem that will exist when the servicemen come 
back. Everyone has his own estimate of how many servicemen there 
will be and what the total problem is, so in order to be perfectly pro- 
fessional, I have worked up my own set of figures. It so happens that 
my figures are the largest of anybody’s I have seen so far, but I can- 
not convince myself that any other figures are accurate. 
The Army, not long ago, made a sampling poll of some twenty 
thousand male, white, enlisted men. This sampling was done according 
to the typical representative sampling with which all of you are 
familiar. It would be wrong, of course, to base complete predictions 
on the basis of a poll which was taken of white enlisted servicemen. 
Nevertheless, this poll is the best we have. 
105 It is generally thought there will be at least fifteen million veterans. 
It is possible that there will be some seventeen million people in the 
armed services. Some of them will not return. A conservative guess 
is that fifteen million veterans will return at the end of the war. 
Projecting the percentages from the sampling study against an expected 
number of fifteen million veterans, I come out with the conclusion 
that 29 per cent of the veterans or a total of three million, eight hun- 
dred and fifty-nine thousand veterans will want some kind of education 
when they return. At least, they now think that they will. That is 
a tremendous number, much larger than the typical predictions. Of 
these men, those wanting full-time education will be approximately 11 
per cent, or one million, three hundred and thirty thousand. Of these, 
7 per cent are completely definite. That is, eight hundred and thirty- 
five thousand people say they are completely sure they are coming 
back, and another 4 per cent, or four hundred, ninety-five thousand, 
are pretty sure they will come back. 
The larger task is of course, the task of part-time education, where 
approximately two and a half million veterans think they will want 
part-time education. A third of those would rather come-back to full- 
time education if they could, but they realize that they can’t. And 
two-thirds of that number want just part-time education. That is, they 
want to work and then study on the side. 
Now, these are fairly large figures when we realize that the typical 
already existing program of education is going to have this tremendous 
backlog of veterans added to it. With a total of three million, eight 
hundred and fifty-nine thousand veterans added to the educational 
program, we can readily foresee a number of problems. 
I am not frightened by the problems, but they will be there. They 
can be handled and they must be handled. The veterans who come 
back for the full-time school and those who come back to the part- 
time education are going to enter a situation of some mental and 
emotional stress. It is fairly easy to analyze some elements which 
will cause emotional stress on the part of the returning veteran. I 
have made my own classification of them. It is overlapping and incom- 
plete, but will, I think, indicate whence some of the problems will 
come. 
The chief problem will be the difficulty that the veteran will have 
in disciplining himself after Army life. Here, perhaps I should make 
a parenthetical remark; I am not talking about the general emotional 
problems of the veterans. I am speaking of those factors within the 
educational situation which lead to emotional stress. Veterans who 
undertake education will also have all the problems of family life 
which the others do, but what I am discussing are the problems peculiar 
to persons in the educational institutions. 
I said that the first difficulty is that of self-discipline after Army 
life. The process of education, despite the abracadabra of class attend- 
ance and grades, is essentially a self-discipline, and it will be necessary 
for these men, and difficult for them, to impose upon themselves this 
kind of discipline. Already we see this in the case of the serviceman 
106 who comes into class and just stares off into distance, without being 
able to bring his mind to bear on the problems that the rest of the 
class can handle. 
A second area of stress is in the relative quiet and calm of academic 
life after the stress and excitement of battle. We may be asked, “How 
are you going to keep them on the campus studying after they have 
fought on Iwo Jima?” The annual bacchanal of the American Legion 
is, in my opinion, the result of the inability of a large number of men 
to adjust themselves to a quiet life after having lived an enormously 
exciting life during the last war. They have to blow off steam once 
a year. It is not out of their systems yet. 
A third problem is the preoccupation with concrete specific activi- 
ties that the veterans will have, with a complete refusal by some of 
them to understand cultural and liberal education. The veteran, when 
he comes back, will be a person who has been subjected to a great deal 
of vocationalism. He has been trained in skills and these skills have 
been broken down for him by all the ingenuity civilian educators— 
turned military educators—have been able to devise. It is going to 
be hard for the veteran to deal more broadly with the larger matters 
in life. Yet, I think it is essential that he does get some of that educa- 
tion which deals with liberal and broad understandings; the ability 
to express himself effectively, both orally and in written communica- 
tion; the precision and clarity of thought which must be achieved by 
the study of the liberal arts; and the breadth of knowledge and under- 
standing which can come only from a broad survey of life. 
It is going to be very difficult to persuade the veteran that there 
is anything to literature or art or composition. He is going to want 
to learn specific things. And yet, the American educational institu- 
tions must somehow convince him that these broader things are 
important. 
Another source of stress is the difficulty of the veteran in defining 
his vocational objectives and the feeling of insecurity that stems from 
such difficulty. The veteran may have trouble finding exactly what 
he wants to do. Therefore, he will feel insecure in his educational 
program because he is not sure he can find a job and get adjusted 
when he gets out of that educational program. 
Still another source is the keen competition with which the veteran 
will be faced. Our students at The University of Chicago—particu- 
larly the eleven students under the Vocational Rehabilitation Pro- 
gram—feel that most keenly. They have a fear of the competition 
against which they must undertake their work. They are up against 
a pretty tough situation with a group of younger, alert, keen, mentally 
disciplined people, and they feel that meeting this competition is one 
of their most serious problems. 
Another source of strain will be the overcrowding of the educa- 
tional institutions. Even if only those who are definitely sure they 
want full-time education come back to our institutions, we would be 
so crowded we would have to resort to large-sized classes and a general 
lack of personal attention. 
107 A more common source of emotional stress is the resentment the 
veteran will have against being placed with others who are at a 
different age or maturity level than his own. For instance, you will 
remember the boy who wrote the article in the Saturday Evening 
Post. He went back to high school after serving with the Marines 
in the South Pacific and found the people with whom he was placed 
in school were so different from him that it was difficult to com- 
municate with them. 
Another difficulty is the resentment which the veterans will have 
against the inelasticity of teaching techniques and machinery of 
operation in educational institutions. The veterans will think it is 
inelastic even if it isn’t—and much of it is. At all educational insti- 
tutions and public schools and universities, much of the instruction 
is geared to another group of people and it will be hard for the pro- 
fessors and the instructors to shift to a consideration of the problems 
of the veteran. 
Another source of emotional tension is the feeling on the part of 
many veterans that they ought to have special privileges of a substan- 
tial sort. I think we have a difficult problem here in knowing exactly 
how many special privileges a veteran should have. He ought to be 
recognized for his valor and for his willingness to serve his country 
in singularly dangerous ways, but at some place a stop must be put 
to the feeling of special privilege. One veteran whom I failed on an 
examination has told me I couldn’t do that because he was a veteran. 
It so happened that he had been in the Army for three months and 
had never got very far away from Chicago, but nevertheless he had 
a feeling of special privilege which led him to think I couldn’t fail 
him. I did—but I could see the emotional tension it created on his 
part. 
I think another difficulty we should consider is the emotional feeling 
developed when a veteran realizes he is in a substandard educational 
institution. A study has recently been made of the practices of thirty- 
four states in authorizing the institutions which are to receive public 
funds for educating veterans. It was found that all sorts of methods 
were being used in the several states, one state even approving any 
institution that asked to be approved. In other words, in that particu- 
lar state, if you set up an office or put a desk in an empty warehouse 
and called yourself an educational institution and asked for approval, 
you could get it—which means that any student who registered with 
you could be given assistance under Public Law 346. In these thirty- 
four states, some 637 colleges had been approved and 25 per cent of 
them were unaccredited institutions. 
Another source of particular resentment for the full-time student 
is the difficulty of living on the allotment which is given him. Do 
you realize that the single veteran, under Public Law 346, receives 
$5O a month for maintenance”? You cannot live in or near the typical 
university for $5O a month. Where is the rest of the money coming 
from? I think some veterans are going to have sub-standard diets, 
sub-standard housing conditions, and all of the difficulties and ills that 
those bring, because of the meager allotment provided. 
108 Another problem which a number of institutions have found is the 
difficulty of providing adequate housing for the veterans. Many of 
the veterans are married and want to live with their wives and their 
families in or near the colleges. This is a problem of the college and 
university, rather than a problem of the other educational institutions. 
But, in and near the typical college and university, there is a housing 
shortage. One of our most promising veterans at The University of 
Chicago had to leave his studies because he could not find adequate 
housing for himself and his wife near our university. This particular 
problem is, perhaps, relatively minor, but it is a problem which the 
veteran will have and which will cause emotional tension. 
There are a number of problems which many veterans are going 
to have. I think the time has come to ask what the several kinds of 
institutions are doing about these problems. Mr. Schloerb, what are 
the public schools doing about them? 
Mr. Lester Schloerb : I would like to suggest that the experience 
of Dean Brown has an application as we consider the educational 
problem of the vet. He was eating lunch with a graduate student, 
and in the conversation, he asked what the man was studying. He 
answered that he was in the school of bacteriology working for his 
Ph.D. degree, and making a special study of the amoeba that was 
eating the bowels of the parasite that was destroying canary birdseed. 
Dean Brown’s comment was /'Education is fine but that is education 
going to seed”. 
We must face the issues of public education; and look at them 
from the standpoint of the productive efforts that may result. We 
must find the distinct place which public education has with respect 
to the returning veteran. 
I am going to throw three suggestions into the hopper. The first 
is this: When a veteran returns to enroll in the regular public sec- 
ondary school, we can expect conflicts which result from the differen- 
tials which exist in age, social background, experience, and study 
habits. These are going to create conflicts. I am going to suggest a 
number of ways out. Some may be good and some bad. 
Many say we must think in terms of separate building facilities for 
veterans. Another is to expand junior colleges to include more courses 
and wider age groups. Also evening school programs to take the 
place of the regular day school, or special full-time vocational schools 
have been suggested. Other suggestions include separate classes for 
veterans, adjust the veteran to the secondary school and give him a 
place in the social leadership of the school. Another suggests a compre- 
hensive personnel and counseling program. This would tend to over- 
come some of the conflicts which may arise. Still another suggestion 
encourages special teachers for just the veterans. These solutions 
attempt to overcome some age and social difficulties which are sure 
to arise. 
A second conflict arises when the veteran returns to request his 
secondary school diploma which he has not earned previous to induc- 
109 tion. He feels that he has had at least the equivalent of a high school 
education or even a junior college education, so he wants his diploma. 
For ways out I am suggesting several possibilities. One is to use 
USAFI to the fullest degree. This makes it possible to determine 
whether or not the man has the equivalent of a high school educa- 
tion. Another suggestion is to provide a testing center in every district. 
Certainly, every large school district should have such a testing center. 
Third, provide credit committees; committees that will pass on the 
credits which these young men have earned, either in the armed 
forces or in previous school experience. Another way out is to pro- 
vide intensive short term courses. Provide these short courses on 
an intensive basis in order quickly to bring him up to meeting the full 
requirements of a diploma. Another suggestion is to provide vestibule 
school programs, which were mentioned by Dr. Rosecrance yesterday. 
Los Angeles, I believe, calls this a staging area. This attempts to 
keep the veterans together as they meet diploma requirements as 
quickly as they can. 
These suggestions deal with this conflict that is sure to arise when 
these men come back and want the high school diploma which they 
feel they have earned. 
Third, when the veterans return to take traditional subjects in the 
public schools, we are sure to have conflicts. We have had intimations 
of them already as our Chairman indicated in the various articles 
that have appeared. 
Suggestions on ways out include: We must have a flexible cur- 
riculum. We must have short courses. We must have a peacetime 
curriculum on the same basis as we have had a war training curricu- 
lum. In other words, when we reached an emergency state in war, 
we set up a great many war training courses. I would venture the 
statement that we are going to face the same situation with respect 
to needs for peacetime emergency situations. We will need a new 
battery of courses that prepare for peace just as we prepared for war. 
I would like to suggest also that evening schools and junior colleges 
will be able to provide ways out in combating the rebellion which is 
going to take place with respect to traditional subjects. We must 
also include a comprehensive personnel and guidance program to take 
care of those veterans who should have some of these traditional sub- 
jects in order to continue in their chosen work. 
I would also suggest that we must do something about our teachers. 
We must have some teacher training programs which aim to train 
how to train the veteran and how to meet all possible difficulties. 
Traditional methods need to be changed. It may not be the subject as 
much as the method. We must introduce a great many more tech- 
niques and teachers must be taught to use them. 
Public education will get some of these men who may want to take 
G.I. training later. In the meantime, public education should take 
care of them. Some others will want to take the G.I. training under 
public education. Public education should be prepared to give it. In 
110 doing so we must be prepared to weigh and evaluate the various ways 
out in order to prevent the conflicts we are talking about. 
The Chairman: Thank you very much. Now, what about the 
colleges and the universities, Mr. White? 
Mr. John White: The same survey you mentioned this morning 
of the armed forces personnel, indicated we might well expect some 
660,000 veterans to enter our universities and colleges. 
The Chairman : Mr. White, I think I should make it clear I am 
not using the American Council on Education figures. I recomputed 
those on the basis of fifteen—rather than ten—million veterans. 
Mr, White: Mine are American Council figures. Those men have 
already begun to come to us, and although the number has been com- 
paratively small, they have brought with them many problems which 
serve to indicate what we shall face in the future. Each institution 
is facing problems of its own. There is no one who knows what all 
the problems are or will be. Thus far we have found no one who 
knows all the answers. I shall attempt to point out what I believe 
are a few of those problems, their emotional aspects, and to point out 
those approaches taken to meet them by a number of colleges and 
universities. I do not have time to elaborate. I do not have the 
answers. I have a very faint hope that we may find some of the 
answers in the discussion later. 
One of the many problems is that of the man who cannot meet 
our particular admission standards and whose application is there- 
fore declined. Sometimes we can suggest other programs within higher 
education, but many times his plans and ambitions are thwarted, 
and facilities in most cases do not now exist in our institutions for 
readvisement. This means we are sending away a man in a mental 
muddle. It is a problem we must correct, and I think in some instances 
we are moving in that direction. 
Another potential problem is the person who, although he qualifies 
for further education at the collegiate level, has been out of school 
for a number of years, is now rusty, and suffers from lack of healthy 
study habits. Not infrequently we face a clash in personalities between 
students and instructor. The veteran, made to face harsh realities, 
sometimes feels that teacher is “out of this world” and does not have 
an appreciation of his, the veteran’s, problems. The opposite situa- 
tion contributes to just as serious, if not a more serious, condition. 
I feel confident that many, if not all of your counselors, will agree 
when I say that many" veterans coming to our offices today suffer from 
too much counseling. Teachers, friends, organizatons, agencies, all 
meaning well, but amateurs in most cases, are too anxious to help and 
advise. The result is that several groups or individuals are working 
at crossed purposes and in many cases, those “would-be” counselors 
do not possess the facts in the matter. We are too ready to pamper 
and I wish to point out here that I feel absolutely certain that these 
men do not want to be pampered—they do not want to be made to 
feel special. 
Ill Much thought needs to be given to the veteran who is not qualified 
for academic work at the collegiate level but who is above the trade 
school level of competence. There is a need for continuation of 
specialized training as in wartime—l refer, for instance to the 
ESMWT—but, who is going to do it? At the present time we do not 
have those facilities in the Chicago area and the result is that either 
we send that man to a trade school where he will waste time, not get 
what he wants or needs, and where he will be unhappy, or we admit 
him as a student in our colleges to face certain failure, and where 
again the end result will be an emotionally upset man and a loss 
of time and money. 
There are many more problems: the married veteran and his troubles 
. . . financial, academic and marital; the man who desires to tele- 
scope the educational process in an attempt to get it finished and 
find permanent employment; the student who finds himself in the 
wrong academic program either through a lack of background, ability, 
or interest; the veteran discharged from the armed forces as a psycho- 
neurotic, who in college, is unable, for instance, to take examinations, 
to sit for an hour in a crowded class room, or is unable for one reason 
or another to do many things we expect of the students in college. 
There are, by the way, not nearly so many of these cases as we are 
sometimes led to believe. 
There is also the “ grade-fretter ”—the man who has a failure com- 
plex and who has an undue fear of losing his educational rights 
through such a lack of success. This last ties in with the problem of 
the veteran student who lacks confidence—brought on many times 
by competition in class with a person fresh from high school. 
What have we colleges and universities done to meet these disturb- 
ances? The answers to that seem to be as numerous as the problems. 
The least one can say is that we are all trying. We know of approaches 
ranging from college policies which permit the admission of veterans 
every Monday morning to those which state flatly that veterans will 
be treated as regular applicants entering at the beginning of a semester 
and taking only the regular courses. I do believe, however, that Col- 
gate University spoke for all of higher education when it stated in 
its Veterans’ Manual that, “the one thing Colgate is not prepared 
to do for servicemen is to lower its academic standards.” 
Campus veterans organizations have been formed, special divisions 
have been established, and men and women have been appointed to 
serve as veteran counselors. Considered from the standpoint of admin- 
istrative organizations, the programs adopted-can be classified into 
three types: First, the “vestibule school,” which Mr. Rosecrance 
mentioned, in which veterans are enrolled for academic purposes; 
second, a separate agency for the admitting, counseling and guidance 
of veterans. Third, a coordinating committee which functions through 
facilities already established. From a survey by the American Council 
of Education, I have obtained a few specific examples. 
New York University has established a vestibule school. Late last 
spring they announced the institution of a reorientation program for 
112 veterans under the auspices of the Veteran Counseling Service. 
Through this program, groups of veterans may be given classes on 
any Monday. The main purpose of the program is to enable veterans 
to get under way with their studies without waiting until the next 
session opens, and also to assist the veterans in readjusting themselves 
to college life. 
The University of Illinois has set up a Division of Special Services 
for War Veterans to provide them with information and counseling 
services. The veteran is allowed to plan his courses so as to meet 
the degree requirements of the colleges of the University, but if he 
wishes, he may take a completely individualized course of study and 
may proceed to a Bachelor of Science in the Division of Special Serv- 
ice for War Veterans. 
The University of Chicago maintains a separate agency for handling 
veterans’ affairs. There, the veterans’ counseling service has special 
advisors in the college, the divisions, and the professional schools. 
Every effort will be made to have the returning veterans placed in 
classes and in residence with men and women of their own age. This 
does not mean that veterans will be segregated, but rather that a 
certain maturity on their part will be recognized. 
At the University of Minnesota, one will find that in order to sup- 
plement the regular function of the Student Counseling Bureau, 
there has been created a Special Committee on Coordination of 
Advisory Services for Veterans. This committee is made up of vet- 
erans’ advisors from each of the colleges, the Director of Admissions, 
the Director of the Counseling Bureau, and the Dean of Students 
as chairman. The Bureau of Veterans Affairs has also been established 
under the Dean of Students with a full-time director who works with 
all departments to coordinate, adapt and to strengthen all the edu- 
cational and counseling facilities involved in the assistance to veterans. 
I trust that what I have told you will give you some idea of our 
problems and our approaches to them. Veterans’ education is still 
in the experimental stages, and I believe that it is quite obvious that 
we are still groping for the correct answers to many problems. I can 
assure you that any help that comes out of this meeting would be duly 
appreciated. 
The Chairman : Thank you, Mr. White. That was an excellent 
summary of what the colleges and universities are doing. We have 
now seen two aspects of the more formal educational institutions, 
those which maintain regular and sequential programs of study. Hard 
as it has been to speak for the public schools and colleges and uni- 
versities, I think it is still going to be much harder for our next 
speaker. In truth, my heart goes out to her. Miss Alice Farquhar 
is going to tell us what adult educational institutions are doing to 
meet these problems. 
Miss Alice Farquhar: I appreciate your sympathy because I was 
going to begin by saying I want it distinctly understood, despite the 
Chairman’s introduction, that there is no special craving on my part 
to cover all informal adult educational institutions and agencies. 
113 That would be an extremely difficult thing to do, especially when 
there has been no time to contact these agencies to get their view- 
points. Anything I say is strictly my own idea. 
I want to begin by making two generalizations, which is never a 
wise thing to do, but it may stimulate discussion. The first is, that 
by and large, informal educational agencies are not aware of program 
difficulties due to emotional disturbances of the veteran. Now, this 
is probably because such agencies have always had the maladjusted 
to deal with, and the techniques they have found useful with civilian 
maladjusted have been used with the veterans as a matter of course. 
The second is that informal agencies, when they speak of adjust- 
ment are thinking of the adjustment of the civilian rather than the 
veteran. Many readers of recent articles, one of which I think Mr. 
White referred to, were quite upset at the suggestion that every 
returning soldier and sailor is going to be slightly neurotic and will 
need considerable training before being fit for civilian life. Now, the 
boys I meet in my particular agency are rather astonished that such 
planning is being done for them. They say, “Just let me get into 
my civies once and I’ll do my own adjusting.” They are amazed 
that civilians would expect them, after all their wide experience 
and their training and travel, to be as they were when they left. They 
don’t want, and they don’t need to adjust to civilian life as it was, 
because civilian life no longer is as it was. Contrary I think, to 
some wishful thinking and a good deal of dramatic writing, few 
want to come back to their rooms as they left them, with the pictures 
on the mirror and pennants on the wall. That is adolescent stuff. They 
want a different world and one that measures up to their newly found 
ideals, and they are willing and anxious to cooperate in any plan for 
good community living. Our educational task, as informal agencies, is 
to direct somewhat, a united effort of veterans and civilians to this 
end. 
Now, despite my conviction that the greatest emotional strain in 
adjustment will be on the civilian, I will follow the trend and throw 
the spotlight on the veteran, because I want to say a word about 
some of those emotional conflicts which the high school people and 
college people have brought up. Take the difficulty of adjusting to 
routine. There is no set routine in informal education. It is true that 
these boys have marital difficulties, but so have civilians, and instead 
of these marital difficulties intefering with the agency programs and 
processes, these programs really relieve that strain because they are 
geared to the interest of the individual. 
The fact that they have to relearn to study is no problem either, 
because that is expected of any adult who has been out of school. In 
fact, some help in that is always part of the first assignment of any 
adult education activity. I don’t think life is going to seem tame to 
them after all the excitement of the war. The college graduate who 
returns to a small home town after four exciting and stimulating years 
at a large state university has the same adjustment to make and he 
makes it; and informal agencies such as libraries and settlements and 
the Y.W.C.A., are sufficiently geared to community programs to assist 
114 the veteran to transfer his energies and his war loyalties to other areas 
if he does need direction. 
There isn’t apt to be much sense of failure because the type of 
activity he is engaged in in an informal agency is usually of his own 
choosing and he rarely chooses a field where he has no interest or 
ability. 
What I am saying is, that, in informal education, while we do see 
evidence of strain, we see it not as something which interferes with 
our program, but as an educational need—something upon which to 
build a program. The education of agencies like the public library, 
the Y.M.C.A., the settlement, the labor union, the women’s club, 
is an education which starts at any point and builds an experience. 
It is spot education, starting often by simply introducing a civilian 
and soldier to each other at a social gathering. It gambles on futures, 
for it hopes that this slight contact will lead to the discovery later on 
of a hidden interest upon which real education can be based. It trusts 
this education will have continuity and it often has, leading the indi- 
vidual from one study to another through a period of years. It is 
essentially social education. It is backlog knowledge designed to help 
a person solve his own problems. Its framework is more nearly the 
normal community situation than is that of formal education. 
Such education has a tremendous advantage in any program of 
adjustment; in fact it has always been education for adjustment— 
adjustment of the individual to a change of job, to a tragedy, to dras- 
tic government regulations, to machine production, to global war con- 
ditions. Today’s adjustment will be the greatest men and women 
have been called upon to make, and naturally, as has been said a good 
number of times, it is the greatest challenge adult education has ever 
had to meet. 
Now, what have we done to meet this challenge? I feel that our 
task has been a more formidable one than that of the college and 
high school. Their task was either to fit the veterans into regular 
organized classes or to set np special educational programs for them. 
Informal agency programs have always been of two types; those built 
to appeal to groups, and those fashioned for individual needs. Emo- 
tional disturbances don’t seem to interfere with either, but these 
programs are planned as preventive as well as curative programs. For 
instance, we see signs of friction between veterans and civilians; 
between civilians and war workers; between draftees and 4-F’s, and 
we use government literature to explain one to the other. We use good 
emotions as a springboard for education. When we noticed that army 
indoctrination programs and the navy programs had keyed the boys 
to a determination to have a real democratic America, we found it 
wise to interpret democracy to them. We recognized a certain frustra- 
tion in both civilians and veterans due to some of the shortcomings 
in democratic practices and have pointed up problems and areas where 
improvement could be made. We have recognized that the great desire 
of both civilians and veterans is for happiness, and recreational pro- 
grams have bulked large in the curriculum. It is hard to tell where 
recreation leaves off and education begins. 
115 We have noted the veteran’s feeling of helplessness and insecurity 
when separated from his military group and deprived of his planned 
daily routine, and have attempted to plan a program which would 
develop his initiative. We have experimented with new techniques. 
We arranged for in-service training in psychology, informal counsel- 
ing, and discussion technique. We have specialized in our services, 
dividing the field among the different agencies. The American Asso- 
ciation for Family Living has sponsored special institutes on marriage 
and family life problems. The Y.M.C.A. has set up facilities for edu- 
cation and counseling on personal and religious problems. The Council 
of Social Agencies has been interested in health matters. Industry 
has been building educational programs to help personnel managers 
to absorb the handicapped in their institutions. 
When it comes to settlements, they like the universities, differ in 
their policy. Some of them have set up separate veterans’ clubs, while 
others feel that the only hope at present is to get civilians and veterans 
of the same age together—working together, playing together and 
talking together. Some of them are merging those two methods. 
The public library is perhaps typical of other informal educational 
agencies in that it is doing a great deal of planning about the physical 
condition of the buildings which house its educational activities and 
this is based on knowledge of what the G.I. expects of us when he 
comes home. These boys don’t make any bones about it. They wTant 
their education in pleasant, attractive surroundings and with pleasant 
people to help them. As one soldier said, ‘‘l’d rather have two smiles 
and a wrong answer than a sourpuss who tells me what I want to 
know. ’ ’ 
Now, what does this all add up to? From our limited experience 
I should say that our technique in dealing with emotional difficulties 
should consist first of referral made from firsthand knowledge of the 
psychiatric facilities and programs of the social agencies in the com- 
munity and of the use of non-directive counseling. Now, it takes an 
intrepid soul to recommend any form of informal counseling in a 
meeting of psychiatrists, but common sense must make us admit that 
there never has been nor will there be for the present emergency 
enough trained psychiatrists to meet the demand and that in 50 per 
cent of the cases coming to informal agencies, good, informal, non- 
directive counseling will be sufficient. 
Secondly, good strategy demands a united community attack on 
civilian problems, because the solving of them will go far in alleviat- 
ing the emotional strains of the veteran. Putting the veteran back to 
work in a normal community where he can make his own adjustments 
with a little help, will be far more helpful than any amount of edu- 
cational programs in informal agencies. 
The Chairman: Thank you very much, Miss Farquhar. In my 
judgment, we have had three of the best presentations that I have 
ever heard concerning the adjustments which the schools and the 
colleges and the adult educational institutions will need to make to 
care for the returning serviceman. As I was listening to these speeches, 
116 I began to think that perhaps we should talk about the mental health 
of the educators rather than the mental health of the servicemen. 
Now I would like to turn the meeting over to you. I am fully pre- 
pared to lecture for fifty minutes, but before I start in on my lecture 
I would like to see if any of you have any questions to ask. 
Chaplain Sergeant (Great Lakes) : The question I would like to 
ask is, what percentage of these boys coming back are going to be 
problems such as you are speaking of here, or what percentage of 
the boys coming back are. going to fit into the educational system 
without any trouble to the system or to themselves? 
The Chairman : Well, Chaplain Sergeant, perhaps you are better 
qualified to answer that question than we are because you know the 
men themselves. I don’t mean to turn the question back to you, how- 
ever; let me ask if any members of the panel have any comment on 
that question? 
Mr. White : The only thing we could say is, we really don’t as of 
have a fair basis on which to make a judgment of that kind 
because the men who are coming back today are problems or they 
wouldn’t be back. By that, I mean most of them. When they come 
out in large numbers, you will have a far greater percentage of really 
normal people than you now have and still at the same time a large 
percentage of them today are absolutely normal. 
The Chairman; How many veterans do you have at Illinois 
Institute ? 
Mr. White: Approximately 115. 
The Chairman: How many of them would you say are problems? 
Mr. White: I doubt if more than 15 or 20 are real problems and 
even those aren’t serious in most cases. 
The Chairman: Mr. Smith, you’re the Counselor for veterans at 
the University of Chicago. How many does The University of Chicago 
have, and how many are problems? 
Mr. Smith : How many veterans? We have 115 at the present time 
but I have no statistics on the number that are problems. It is a 
little difficult to say where you are going to draw the line. I should 
say certainly six or seven would be a good liberal number, who present 
anything like a serious problem in emotional adjustment. 
We do have financial problems and we have academic problems as 
we do in our civilian population. I should like to raise this point in 
commenting on the Chaplain’s question: I wonder if a very consider- 
able number of the people who are maladjusted in war service are 
really civilian problems at all? The fact that a person doesn’t adjust 
himself to a war service doesn’t seem to me to argue prima facie 
that he is not going to adjust himself to civilian education. 
Mr. White : I would agree to that. 
Mr. Schloerb : I would like to ask Mr. Smith if he did not refuse 
to enroll those who might have been problems? 
Mr. Smith : You mean have we turned down people? 
117 Mr. Schloerb: Yes. 
Mr. Smith : Very, very few. I think since last fall, which was the 
first time we had people under Public Law 346, that the Student 
Health Service has refused three men, and after two or three weeks 
as advised, we refused perhaps two others. 
Mr. White: I would like to ask Air. Willard from Northwestern 
what his experience has been? 
Mr. Willard: We have, according to the present statistics, 481 
veterans at Evanston and on the Chicago campus. Approximately 
200 are in full-time programs on the Evanston campus. They are not 
representative samples. I have repeatedly said these men coming back 
to us now are not representative of the great mass and I would like 
to reemphasize that at this time. Some of these men are problems, 
but I rather think the three or four that have been mentioned, and 
the 6 per cent in your institution is a little larger than the problem 
children we have. We have had considerable experience with these 
men and the education of veterans is not a problem or a new question. 
We have been doing it since 1865, and we also had a very great num- 
ber there at the end of World War I. We have only had three men 
who have fallen out of bed scholastically and were excluded from the 
University. We had one man who couldn’t be a gentleman on the 
campus and ours is a coeducational institution and so it was suggested 
that he resign from the University, which he did. 
. . . Off the record . . . 
Mr Willard : I would like to inject one thought which has disturbed 
me. I saw the picture shown yesterday and may I make a plea for 
all of you who saw that picture, that a comparatively small percentage 
of the men in the Marine Corps have been subjected to the experiences 
which that picture showed. In the first place, if you study the statis- 
tics of military service, you find that not all men get into battle, 
only a comparatively small percentage, and those who get into battle 
therefore are in comparatively small numbers. As I see it, these young 
men are coming back. They are the healthiest young men it has ever 
been our privilege to have on our American campuses. It might sur- 
prise you to know we have suspended the health examination tem- 
porarily for veterans who are returning. We know they have been 
examined and reexamined, and we do not send them to the health 
service. We do have them fill out a card so that their cards are in 
the health service department in case of an emergency, but we do not 
examine them except in a few cases, where in our judgment, possibly 
an examination should be given. 
We have this fine, healthy, energetic, disciplined group of young 
men with mass courtesies surpassing anything we have ever had on 
the campus before. They want direction. They are men of discipline. 
They will do, for the most part, exactly what they are told to do, and 
at the time they are expected to do it. 
I would like to leave just a final request to you in this meeting and 
that is, the problems of the veterans are not huge, mass problems 
any more than they were before. I have raised three boys who were 
118 live wires and a daughter and she is a live wire. We have educated 
these children at Northwestern—one or two or three degrees. I know 
something of what young men think. I happen to be a veteran of 
the first World War and I never knew until now what a terrific prob- 
lem I must have been when I came back. I am overwhelmed and I 
sometimes think I should go back to some of my friends of those days 
and apologize for the difficulties I caused. Those young men are fine, 
and I bet any of you a new Stetson hat, I can take the veterans of 
the last war from freshman to men working for their Doctor’s degree, 
and I can take their grades and take the numerical average and let 
you take an equal number, and I bet each of you a new Stetson hat 
my grades will be better than yours. I mean it, too. 
The Chairman : Are there any other representatives from universi- 
ties here who might speak on the subject? Air. Schloerb, what about 
the public schools? 
Mr. Schloerb: There are comparatively few. There are junior 
college representatives here who can provide a more adequate answer. 
Mr. McCallister: We have really had no problem, because the 
number of people who come into the junior college are few and they 
seem to know what there is to do. Our problem has been largely a 
matter of the educational aspects. We have had a few come in for 
advice concerning the probability of getting credits in the junior 
college on the basis of experience and so forth, but by using the manual 
that has been used so much, we have had a feeling when they left us 
that they were pretty well satisfied and had found what they were 
looking for. We can’t speak with experience because we just don’t 
have a sufficient number to mention it. I think maybe the Wright 
College or a couple of other colleges might have had a few people 
under the G.I. Bill. I haven’t had any experience with them at all. 
Mr. Eeisling: I think the greatest problems are the people in the 
colleges now. We have more problems with girls than boys. Our class- 
rooms are awfully quiet. The girls need quiet to write their letters! 
We have only one veteran now and he is somewhat of a problem but 
as far as we are concerned at Wright we have had no experience. 
I would like to suggest, since no one has raised it directly that we are 
waiting anxiously for the veteran to come back. We can do a lot, I 
think, in our counseling work in preparing these people who are here 
waiting for the veteran. We certainly ought to appreciate and recog- 
nize that an emotionally upset sweetheart can disturb the balance of 
a veteran. 
Mr. Novak: The only person we had at Wright who might have 
been considered a problem was a person—a returning veteran—who 
had a fear complex of failing the course and therefore losing his edu- 
cational benefits. He dropped out of school voluntarily in spite of 
anything we could do, about six weeks before the end of the semester. 
I felt it was because he was going to fail at least one course. 
The Chairman: How about the informal educational institutions? 
Miss Farquhar: There is one minor thing upsetting a good many 
of the boys coming to us. If they are entitled to four years of edu- 
119 cation, they are torn between the desire to embark on a long, arduous 
course and prepare themselves for what they have always wanted 
to do, and the inclination to do the easier thing, get special training 
in the work they were doing when they were drafted. We had an 
attractive blond chap the other day who wms an entertainer. He can 
do anything; dance, write songs, put on shows. He didn’t know 
whether to go into radio work with television coming on, which would 
demand those talents, or whether to study architecture. He had always 
wanted to be an architect. We gave him all the vocational material 
we had on both types of work, recommended testing, personal investiga- 
tion and conferences with specialists. He has come back two or three 
times and he is still thinking about it. Of course, that is a very minor 
complex, but it is something on which they need help. 
The Chairman : Are there any representatives of adult educa- 
tional institutions here who might speak on that point? 
Miss Margaret Rieser; I have a college advisory service. I think 
maybe there is a little over-simplification here today. I have seen the 
students who through the years have been turned down from colleges 
and I assume that the University of Chicago and Northwestern will 
carry on pretty much as they have right along in their academic 
standards, which is right and proper,. because the student will go 
there who has no difficulty in keeping up. 
I am wondering about the people who come back with the benefits 
in mind. What happens to the people The University of Chicago 
turns down because they couldn’t make the grade? The same thing 
is true at Northwestern? How is one to handle the group that Mrs. 
McCarn spoke of yesterday? A number of Negroes from the south, 
who have had very poor high school education and who come here 
and go to a public school and are not acceptable at one of the trade 
schools. Who is going to tell the veteran where he can go with the 
credits he has, and have a good chance of getting in. Even if he is 
not troubled with some mental disease, he certainly is troubled with 
a great deal of discouragement and wonders who is looking after him. 
The Chairman : I think yon have raised a very important point, 
Miss Rieser. Some representative of the community agencies should 
speak to that point. 
Mr. Schloerb: I would be inclined to think that many of these 
people are going to take advantage of the training provided by the 
private institutions which have been approved by the State Super- 
intendent of Public Instruction under the G.I. Bill. Many of these 
schools, I am afraid, may take advantage of the fact that this money 
is made available to the veteran and they are offering courses which 
they think may be desired by him. We hope they are sure that it is 
going to be of benefit to him. 
Miss Farquhar; That is all right, but suppose you are a Negro. 
Your father was a plumber. You have worked with your father. 
You know a lot about plumbing. You want to go to Washburn Trade 
School and you are told the class is full. Then it comes out that 
there is no Negro union for plumbers and therefore you cannot go into 
120 the plumbing business. What are you going to do? You know it 
won’t do you any good to go to the trade school because you can’t 
get a job when you come out. I think Miss Rieser knows more about 
this whole proposition than anybody we can come in contact with. 
Chaplain Sergeant ; That is an educational problem at the 
moment ? 
Miss Farquhar : No, it is broader than that. 
Chaplain Sergeant : It is in the realm of government and industry. 
Miss Farquhar: That is what I mean when I say the answer to 
this whole situation is—adult education. You’ve got to educate society. 
You’ve got to have a broader education in your labor unions and in 
your civilian population and in your communities, to get a feeling for 
a thing which must be done. 
Mr. White: That is what I meant when I said before, I thought 
there was a need for continuation after the war of such specialized 
training as the ESMWT. They have been able to get it there. 
The Chairman: The point Miss Farquhar is raising is that even 
a great many of the people trained under the ESMWT programs 
cannot get jobs because there is racial prejudice; there are union 
restrictions, or other restrictions. 
Miss Shirley Kahn : I think all of this points to the need for a 
more extensive vocational counseling program—the social agencies. I 
think it is very important to understand the motivations of the veteran 
coming back, what his thoughts are about going on for additional 
schooling. I think an understanding of the individual’s background 
and his aptitudes are very important. 
I happen to represent an agency that is secularized. It is the 
Jewish Vocational Service, and our attempts are to know the indi- 
vidual’s background, his experiences during the service and what his 
motivations are for desiring this training. I think it is important 
for us not to think only in terms of the college education, but in terms 
perhaps of trade education too, or maybe it is just a job he needs or 
maybe he needs a training period of adjustment before seeking train- 
ing or a job. 
Mr. Norman Cash: I wanted to talk about the other extreme of 
the veterans who have failed in readjustment and have been incarce- 
rated for a major crime. We now have, in the Illinois penitentiary, 
about 350 from World War II; persons who are honorably or dis- 
honorably discharged, but people with service, and it has been our 
observation as we viewed these cases, that the war cases as such seems 
to activate what instability is in the personality at the time, of the 
man, and this is especially true about the younger men. For example 
take the unstable element of the fellow who at seventeen probably 
enlisted in the Navy. Now when these fellows are unfortunate enough 
to be released, they come home and they are fish out of water because 
their friends are gone and the neighborhood associates are no longer 
there. They don’t know what to do and they grope around and get 
jobs. Some of them try schooling, and it is at this point that the voca- 
121 tional guidance would be quite helpful to them, I cite one case in 
particular of a lad who was attending Lane Technical High School 
and had a good high school record there, but his friends enlisted in 
the navy so he did also. He was discharged as a possible case for 
psychiatry. Now, unfortunately on the way home while on the boat, 
he contracted malaria and he had some attacks. When he got to Chi- 
cago he went to his folks’ home and got his severance pay. With that 
money he bought an automobile and started to work and it is at 
that point he should have had some guidance. He paid S3OO down 
on the car, and the car cost him SBOO. He worked but got behind 
with his payments and was picked up during a round of the taverns 
which included a shooting. He is now our problem and he is a good 
boy. He never had any trouble before and he tells me when he came 
home he was just out of place. He didn’t know what to do and he 
needed counseling. 
Mr. Cash : I feel that the real problem is in getting these fellows 
who left high school back into the high school group again, and 
frankly, I don’t know how you are going to do it. A lot of them are 
pretty unstable. I respect the professor’s remark about Northwestern, 
but I feel he is dealing with a selected group; men who had higher 
education, whereas the real problem comes from the men who have 
not yet channelized their thinking in definite areas and are restless 
when they return. 
Chaplain Sergeant: Aren’t we faced with one problem here more 
than any other? It is not the problem of what we are going to do 
with them after we get them into the universities or the colleges, but 
the problem of how we can guide these young men when they come 
out of the service to find the place where they belong. Maybe some 
of them belong in a trade school or they, of their own accord will 
apply for entry at Northwestern University. Now, I believe we can 
solve that problem at that point. We aren’t going to have any prob- 
lem from the educational point of view at all. They are going to fit 
into your colleges once you get them into the right place. 
The Chairman: Well, to sum up a bit, we have had various 
responses to the question that Chaplain Sergeant asked: how many 
of these man are going to be problems? We have seen in terms of 
the people who are working in educational institutions, particularly 
full-time educational institutions, varying estimates from no problem 
at Northwestern to 7 to 15 per cent at other universities. The point 
has been made that this is not a representative percentage. The point 
has also been made that this is perhaps a higher percentage than we 
will have later on, because these people are emotionally maladjusted, 
many of them, and are released from the Army for that reason, I 
think the problem will grow greater as time goes on, because of a 
number of factors such as the great pressure of numbers when the 
bulk of the soldiers come back and the general over-crowding of edu- 
cational institutions which will lead to the absence of personal atten- 
tion which now can be given. We have seen that almost any veteran 
who comes back now has lavished upon him a great deal of care. 
What is going to happen when we have 2,000 veterans in an institu- 
tion? In my judgment, it is going to be worse than at the present. 
122 However, going on, it has been pointed out that perhaps the most 
difficult problem is the veteran who does not get into the right institu- 
tion to start with; who doesn’t get into any kind of an educational 
program which is forward-looking for him. We have had a suggestion 
from Mr. Cash from the State Criminology Department that this is a 
serious problem as is witnessed by the number of people who are 
already so seriously maladjusted that the state must care for them 
in penal institutions. 
We have had evidence from two people who see that the community 
rather than the institution should guide people of this sort. Finally, 
we have had the suggestion that the serious problem is the problem 
of guidance of the veteran as he comes from the service so that he can 
choose the correct vocational personal objective and then be helped 
to fit into the kind of training program which will lead him towards 
that. Is that a fair summary? 
Miss Gale: As a high school counselor, I would like to ask, why 
wait until he comes home? After all, we who have been working at 
the high school level recognize that we have been working as coun- 
selors. Most of these boys have left from the high school group. They 
haven’t left from the college level. The majority, we have had our 
contacts with last, and if they have left high school before they 
graduated, part of them left high school as a temporary solution of 
the problem they weren’t willing to face in high school. We are going 
to have to recognize when they come back, they still have this unsolved 
high school problem and that has to be faced. Many of them right 
now are facing this unsolved problem. If you give them a chance 
to correspond with you, you will find that through correspondence 
your counseling program can project out into the farthest reaches 
of the varying forces in the armed service. 
I have been having lots of fun counseling with people in the Aleu- 
tians, Saipan, Iwo Jima, Italy, Africa, and other places. It is amazing 
what you can do by correspondence. Long distance counseling can be 
done and the ground work that you lay there will establish in their 
minds what they feel is of major importance, and possibly you can 
push some of the problems out of the scene and get them to just face 
realities and analyze themselves. 
My particular question then is: why wait as individuals for the 
boys or girls to come home? You can reach out and start your coun- 
seling now. 
The Chairman: The Chairman of Mrs. Gale’s Board of Education 
is at my left. He told me before the meeting began that you write 
around eighty or ninety letters a month. 
Miss Gale: It is a real privilege and it is amazing what I have 
learned. 
Professor Rosecrance: Maybe at this time one might put into 
the picture this one fact: Plans are made, I understand so that follow- 
ing the cessation of hostilities there will be developed within the 
armed services an educational program occupying twenty hours a 
week of the on-duty time of the men in the service. Now, that is differ- 
123 ent from our present Armed Forces Institute Program which is on 
off-duty time and now enrolls almost a million members of the armed 
services. I can well imagine that a man in service might, before he 
has realized it, choose to spend twenty hours a week in educational 
enterprises rather than doing K.P. In the European Theatre, I am 
told that already a thousand officers have been designated as teachers 
for use in Paris, Rome, and Munich. Those three cities have been 
designated as training centers. Therefore, it is quite possible that 
when the larger numbers come back to us, they will already have 
received from the armed services, themselves, a great deal of educa- 
tion and a great deal of counseling. I am sure many of you are aware 
of the fact that the Arnly has now developed—and I think the Navy 
also—a separation counseling service with which everyone ought to 
be familiar, and many of these services actually counsel the men with 
regard to their advantages, their benefits, and things they might do, 
where their experience in the Navy or Army could be put to use in 
civilian life. They come, therefore, with somewhat more background 
than those we had in the earlier phases of the war. 
The Chairman: Thank you. I think the American public doesn’t 
know the extent to which the Army is going to undertake this military 
instruction. The headquarters of the U. S. Armed Forces Institute 
will be in Munich which will be the American center of occupation 
of Germany. Plans are already under way for educational programs 
and people are designated who are forming a nucleus that could go 
immediately to Munich and establish an American university for 
servicemen there, in addition to the ones at Paris and Rome that you 
mentioned. 
Miss Rieser : I just wanted to say that they have a setup, I believe, 
in the Army, where any person who comes to a separation center can 
get all the information we are talking about. But, there is one difficult 
spot—it is voluntary. Apparently it now takes practically forty-eight 
hours to be- separated from the Army, and after all, who is going to 
wait and take batteries of tests, even on the high school level or 
college level, when they have been away? But, perhaps that is a part 
of our home job, to try and get the people, particularly the people 
who are not near a large city like Chicago, but in smaller centers, 
to get all that information, because they can get scores and a very 
definite idea of just where they should fit into the college or high 
school picture. Everything is checked. 
Miss Bandeau (Chicago Sun Servicemen’s Bureau) : We have an 
information service and catch the veterans sometimes very shortly 
after they have had their exit interviews. I would like to find out how 
much good an interview and counseling does at the time the man is 
ready to come home? He is full of fine ideas at that point and very 
anxious to get home. He forgets about insurance, he forgets about 
dependency benefits—everything that happens in the forty-eight hours 
of separation. It doesn’t seem an opportune time to offer counseling 
to men. 
The Chairman : Chaplain Sergeant, what is the Navy doing along 
these two lines of post-hostility education and separation? 
124 Chaplain Sergeant: I am not too familiar or two well aware of 
what is being done there. In line with the aptitude tests, they are 
giving those to all the boys who come in. I don’t think the Army or 
Navy, either one of them, have gone far enough on the work that 
should be done on sending the boys out. They could use the same 
aptitude tests they are using for the boys coming in, helping them 
find themselves. I think forty-eight hours is an awfully short time 
to hold these boys. I think it should be a longer time, in preparation 
for their going back out, and the Army and Navy should take the 
responsibility on that; either the Army and Navy or some govern- 
mental agency. I think that is where we need education of civilians 
in helping these boys, not in fixing up college courses for them neces- 
sarily, but in helping the boy find himself. 
The Chairman : It would be your point, no matter how much time 
you take then, it is the wrong time? 
Chaplain Sergeant : Nearly all of our boys now are given a leave 
and then are brought back and surveyed out. 
Mr, Henry Voss: I know this discussion is very interesting in 
discussing the ways and channels, but it seems to me we ought to 
know also where we are going as to the later integration of these men 
into our society, how they are emotionally disturbed and how those 
disturbances can be avoided. It seems to me one of the greatest feel- 
ings of insecurity these men have when they come back is not whether 
they can get a job, but whether that job is going to last or not. What 
are the possibilities of security in the larger national and industrial 
sense? It seems to me that thought should be given to all our educa- 
tional institutions, the universities, the high schools, the adult educa- 
tion schools. The challenge is there for all of us to explain carefully 
to these men who have been in particular places, to want to know 
when they come back here, what has happened at home and what the 
possibilities are of developing this larger democratic program. I 
think the educational developments in the army have been very import- 
ant and we all should study them carefully because they give us some 
conception of how it can be carried on with a particular aim in mind. 
It seems to me we ought to provide not only discussion of the prob- 
lems, but attempt to answer them; to come to some conclusion. Now, 
ex-President Rainey of the University of Texas has given us a chal- 
lenge in the educational sphere and he has deliberately presented 
this problem in education: Are we going to merely present problems 
or are we going to attempt to find solutions which will be of some 
social use? I think as the lines of discussion were developing yester- 
day, and it also became apparent today, that the veteran is not going 
to be a particular problem after he becomes reintegrated into society. 
We are interested in seeing that reintegration continues to the ulti- 
mate, the final redevelopment of his character; in terms of possibilities 
of a world that is opening up. That will be more and more apparent 
in San Francisco with the later international developments. 
It seems to me when we talk about changes in education, we ought 
to be thinking seriously of this particular problem: How are we going 
to show the possibilities of a larger and fuller democracy? 
125 Miss Kahn: I wanted to amplify Miss Landeau’s statement on 
counseling at the time of separation not being opportune. We have 
found in our experience, men coming back do not come to our agency 
until around three months after separation from service. They lie 
around the house for that period or get a job that pays the most 
money and finally they realize that is not the best thing, but that 
they should get some sort of job or training that will have a future 
for them. 
Miss Lorsch : I would like to know whether the educational insti- 
tutions are mentioning the possibilities of on-the-job training to those 
who may feel they do not fit into the programs, like this Negro prob- 
lem? In some cases it is not education under all your provinces, but 
it is one of the things provided for by the G.I. Bill and I am wonder- 
ing if these institutions are drawing attention to that benefit? 
The Chairman: Before you sit down, would you tell the group 
a bit about what you mean by on-the-job training? I think perhaps 
some of the people here don’t know what it is. 
Miss Lorsch : Well, it may be regular training under the apprentice 
program. This is a ticklish time to speak of it because it seems to be 
in a state of fluctuation under the approval of the G.I. Bill. Until 
recently the Veterans Administration has been able to approve that 
part as they have for those under Public Law 16 who are getting 
vocational rehabilitation. A boy or girl is fitted into a job on which he 
receives training with a definite objective in view. It is planned. He 
isn’t just set loose in a job. Also, it is apprentice training, only it 
doesn’t always come under the regular apprentice training setup, I 
don’t know whether that explains it any better or not. It is a bad 
time to try to explain it right at this moment. 
The Chairman : Is there any representative here from the Veterans 
Administration? I think we feel that gap very badly here. Is there 
anyone who can describe for ns, even though it is unofficial, the 
counseling program of the Veterans Administration? 
Miss Landeau: The Administration’s Vocational Guidance Counsel 
is part of the program. 
The Chairman : That is for the people who have been crippled or 
disabled. 
Miss Landeau ; They must have a vocational handicap; be crippled 
or disabled. And beyond that, they must have a need for vocational 
rehabilitation to overcome that handicap. That same service is avail- 
able to men who are going to go to school or take training under 
Public Law 346, but they have to ask for it. It is not, “Here, you 
may have it. ’ ’ 
Voice: And in order to obtain it, they must first have the letter 
of eligibility and fill out the form for education under the G.I. Bill, 
and when they receive the letter of eligibility, they present that to the 
Veterans Administration, generally speaking, in the Chicago area, to 
the downtown office and receive the same vocational testing and 
guidance. 
126 The Chairman: Why isn’t it automatic? 
Miss Farquhar; My suspicion is that they are not equipped to 
handle that big a load at present. 
Mr. White; They practically request that you don’t send'them in; 
they are so crowded. 
Miss Lorch : I spent the afternoon with Mr. Marshall two days 
ago and he said they could handle lots more men. 
The Chairman: How long ago was your request? 
Mr. White : A week ago Saturday. 
Miss Kahn: Well, theoretically the men who are not in the service 
are supposed to go to the U.S.E.S. and the Veterans Bureau and they 
are supposed to have a counseling service there. I guess they haven’t 
expanded to that yet. 
Miss Lorch : That is for job guidance. That is information intended 
for vocational training only. Those are aptitude tests for a person 
who intends to look for a job and is not certain what to choose. 
Mr. Novak: I might mention, Mr. Ilostettler of the Veterans 
Administration said they expect to do more counseling in that bracket 
because they have the time and they feel that the time to do it is 
while the person is still in the service, before he is mustered out. 
They are concerned, however, with what will happen if there is a 
general demobilization such as Mr. Rosecrance talked about yesterday. 
I would like to mention this: While this discussion was going on, 
I couldn’t help but think of what will happen in regard to these 
schools which have been approved by the State Superintendent of 
Instruction. We have all manners of schools there and we know how 
academic people have felt in the past regarding profit-making institu- 
tions, that sometimes they do a good job and sometimes they don’t. 
If we take it for granted that these profit-making institutions do a 
good job in what they propose to do, we can’t help but think that 
many of them will go after the veterans. After all, there is $5OO a 
year to be used. We know how many of our present academic insti- 
tutions go after money and how many of them send representatives 
to high schools and try to get students. Of course, we take it for 
granted they do a good job. Some of them go to a great extreme in 
getting students, with high-salaried, high-powered people to go out 
and get them. Now, if that is done by accredited, recognized, insti- 
tutions, what may happen with some of the other type of institutions? 
Therefore, I agree with the Chaplain that either the Army or the 
Navy or some other governmental agency should take the responsi- 
bility in counseling these people adequately before they get out, and 
even hold up their discharge if necessary. 
Also, I would like to point out I feel it is not only a question of 
when that counseling takes place; if it is immediately upon discharge, 
the day before, or holding them up for forty-eight hours, and that not 
being sufficient time, and so forth. I think that alone is not the only 
thing that is important. It is also where that counseling is done, or in 
regards to which district it is done. If a veteran is discharged and 
127 has to live in Chicago and someone counsels him in New York or 
Washington or on the West Coast, those people would not have the 
time or take the trouble to counsel him regarding the particular schools 
here. I am not thinking of the academic institutions when I say that, 
so much as these trade schools. There are so many places for mistakes 
to occur where students will sign up with some institution and their 
papers will clear and they will be obligated. Then suddenly they may 
discover that isn’t the school they should have gone to or that they 
could have gone to another one but they didn’t know about it. 
The Chairman : Mr. Novak, what you say is quite true. I do 
want to point out one thing to you in defense of the Army and Navy, 
however, and that is that some of the educational institutions have 
political influence, particularly those which are run as a private 
industry, and I think the Army and the Veterans Administration are 
quite afraid—perhaps they shouldn’t be—of attacking private indus- 
try. Just let one instance come up where the Army or Navy steers 
someone away from a profit-making institution and you have trouble 
on your hands. 
Mr. Novak: That is exactly what I was thinking of when I said 
that. I was also commenting on the question of whether institutions 
are counseling students to go to some other institution if that particu- 
lar one can’t meet the needs. I think that is the answer. They will 
try to hold them by hook or crook. 
Professor Rosecrance : Here is a bit of experience on that matter 
which I would like to share with you. You will all recognize that 
under the National Youth Administration, institutions received money 
from the federal government in precisely this same manner. The dif- 
ference here is merely a matter of amount. It happened that President 
Snyder was invited by Charles M. Allen, the State Director of the 
Student’s Aid for Colleges, to nominate a person to represent some 
of the larger institutions of the state on a National Youth Adminis- 
tration, Illinois Advisory Counsel. He asked me to attend, not as a 
representative of Northwestern so much as a representative of larger 
institutions. The purpose of this group of institutional representatives 
was to give some help and aid on the matter that you have in mind. 
The Secretary of our committee was the Secretary for the State Cer- 
tification Board and the State Department of Public Instruction, 
and the State Department of Public Instruction, too, is subjected to 
political influences. Much as the State Department would have liked 
to eliminate from the accredited list some beauty culture school, shall 
we say, or some other school of different caliber, the State Department 
did not dare to take that action. 
Therefore, the problem was thrown into the lap of this advisory 
group to decide what institutions should be on this accredited list and 
what institutions should not. Now then, the technique was interesting 
to me because it put the responsibility back where it belongs, on the 
institutions themselves, to say what institutions are really educational 
institutions and what institutions are business institutions. We did 
not issue any manifestoes, but we did aid the State Department of 
128 Public Instruction and we did aid the state, gradually, bit by bit, to 
straighten this list out. Had that not been discontinued we would 
have had in Illinois a list of institutions that we could all respect. 
The Chairman : Thank you very much, Mr. Ilosecrance, I think 
that is very interesting. The challenge is certainly upon the educa- 
tional institutions to demonstrate whether they have sufficient breadth 
of vision and vigor of performance to do this very important task. 
Today we have talked about the problem of education of the return- 
ing veteran in a broad context and in a more specific context. Broadly, 
we have seen that the veteran, as he returns, must be reintroduced 
into our society with satisfaction for him and for the people who 
have been here while he was away. Broadly speaking, we see this as a 
problem of our entire social order; the problem of unemployment, the 
problem of adjustment to financial crises and of economic disturb- 
ances, the problem of racial equality, and the problem of national 
security. That broader picture, as has been pointed out, is one that 
we must keep in mind. 
On a more refined basis, we have concentrated upon the veterans 
who will have emotional problems. There may be many or there may 
be few, but the general opinion of this group this morning is that 
even if the most minor estimates are made, the problem is one of 
considerable scope and is an extraordinarily difficult one. We have 
seen this as a problem both within the educational institutions, for 
the people enrolled and for the veteran who has not yet entered an 
educational institution but is trying to find the correct kind of a 
training program for himself. 
We have seen furthermore, and I think this is extraordinarily inter- 
esting, as representing a true account of the picture, that the problem 
which concerns all of us educationally is the counseling or the guid- 
ance functions so far as the veteran is concerned. We have spent 
almost all of our time here today talking about the readjustment of 
the individual as essentially a task of counseling and of guidance, 
though of course, perhaps to a lesser extent it is a question of admin- 
istrative and academic readjustment. 
It has been suggested that we don’t have to wait until the veteran 
comes back to reestablish these ties. It has been suggested that the 
Army and Navy should strengthen their program of counseling and 
that the Veterans Administration should do more than it does. It 
has been suggested that all of the several agencies should refer to a 
central focus point of counseling those people who need help. It has 
been suggested finally, that the universities, the public schools, the 
reputable educational community agencies, must, rather than falling 
into bickering and disagreement, take the positive step of keeping the 
situation clear for the veterans -as far as attendance at reputable insti- 
tutions is concerned. The state of Michigan, under the leadership 
of a very vigorous State Superintendent of Public Instruction, has 
129 followed this practice and has set up a method for approving institu- 
tions. Under this plan, the reputable institutions of the state take the 
responsibility and the leadership for this program. 
This has been a very interesting discussion, and I hope a profitable 
one. We have seen that the problem is perhaps broader or perhaps 
narrower than we thought. I think one thing this discussion has 
done has been to pull down out of the clouds the rather vague indeci- 
sions, fears and worries about this problem. We have had some fairly 
concrete approaches and understandings and I hope that today’s 
discussion will be a real contribution to the thinking of those who 
have been present. 
130 ROUND TABLE DISCUSSION 
on 
EMOTIONAL ASPECTS OF PROBLEMS IN RELIGION 
Ernest J. Chave, Ph.D. ; Chairman 
Associate Professor of Religious Education, The Divinity School, 
University of Chicago. 
Anton T. Boisen, D.D. 
Chaplain, Elgin State Hospital, Elgin, Illinois. 
Russell L. Dicks, D.D. 
Chaplain, Wesley Memorial Hospital, Chicago, Illinois. 
Reverend Virgil E. Lowder 
Secretary, Department of Social Service, Church Federation of 
Greater Chicago. 
Rabbi Felix Levy 
Temple Emmanuel, Chicago 
Reverend Edgar F. Witte 
Executive Director of The Lutheran Charities of Chicago. 
131 The Chairman: There are three panels this morning which are 
being conducted on the general theme of Emotional Aspects of Prob- 
lems in Industry, Education, and Religion. This is the one on Religion. 
And this is part of the general topic of readjusting with the return- 
ing Servicemen. 
Now, those of you who attended the meetings yesterday will have 
discovered that the first two words of this general title have been 
emphasized. It’s readjusting with the returning Servicemen, instead 
of the common assumption that the returning Serviceman must adjust 
himself to a given order. We feel that the conference has done some- 
thing significant when it has emphasized that fact, that this is a 
civilian, as well as a Serviceman adjustment. 
The other night I was out participating in a panel discussion 
where the man who spoke first said he wasn’t professionally religious, 
that he knew nothing about theology. He then took twenty minutes, 
to give a five-minute speech, on theology. 
Now, may I introduce the Panel? 
Mr. Witte, farthest at my left, is from the Lutheran Charities of 
this city; Rabbi Levy is from Emmanuel Congregation; Mr. Virgil 
Lowder is from the Church Federation, Social Welfare Department; 
Mr. Dicks is Chaplain at Wesley Memorial Hospital. Mr. Boisen is 
the Chaplain of the Elgin State Hospital. I am Ernest Chave of the 
Divinity School of the University of Chicago. 
Now, in the problems presented in our group, by both the speakers 
and those in the audience, there will be many different practices, 
and many different emotional habits. We’re asking for consideration 
this morning of the emotional aspects of religion which Servicemen 
may have. 
I wish we had more pastors here. A good many pastors have an 
emotional attitude toward certain familiar forms of religion and 
expect certain things of returned men. The question is: ‘‘Should 
returned Servicemen adjust to them? should the pastors adjust to 
Servicemen? or can there be a two-way adjustment that makes for 
better working, for better understanding, and for better outcomes 
of the whole setup.” 
Religion is very old in the human race, and religion has many 
different phases to it. This morning we cannot cover the whole field, 
and we’re not quite sure what interests will be represented as we 
move forward. 
We have asked Dr. Boisen to open the topic with a statement of 
some phases of religion which, from his experience, he feels are 
important for us to keep in mind as we think of this adjustment 
process. 
When he has spoken, we shall ask Mr. Dicks to bring before us 
some specific types of cases, so that as we discuss generalities, we 
shall think of what these general principles mean, relative to specific 
people, for every case, as we know, is different. 
132 Mr. Lowder will remind us of the fact that the church is an 
organization with which, and through which, most of us expect to 
work. With our many different churches we have a problem in meet- 
ing needs of not letting a great number of people slip between. 
After these three men have spoken, we shall ask Rabbi Levy and 
Mr. Witte to make comments upon the three short talks that have 
been given. We are asking each man to limit himself to not more 
than fifteen minutes so that there will be plenty of time for partici- 
pation of the audience. 
After that there will be a free-for-all. The Panel will join with 
you in cross-questioning and thinking together to see whether we 
can get some general principles and some specific lines of procedure 
that we feel can be put to use in the days ahead. 
We will now hear from Dr. Boisen. 
Dr. Boisen : I made out this outline to assist in clarifying what 
I’m going to try to say. I shall read this outline and then comment 
on its points. 
The general topic that I have taken is “A Cause Worth Living 
and Dying For,” as representing the distinctive contribution that 
the church will be able to make in this new situation that will be 
our concern. “The distinctive contribution of the Church to the 
well-being of the returning servicemen lies in the challenge which 
it must bring to them and the demands which it must make upon 
them to participate in the struggle for a better world. What is needed 
is religious quickening in the form of a vital religious movement 
based upon a commanding and expanding vision of the day that 
ought to be.” 
I think that’s not too much to hope for because crisis experiences 
are very commonly associated with religious quickening, and war is 
a social crisis of the greatest magnitude. 
The tendency in crisis experiences both personal and social, to be 
associated with religious quickening, can be seen in normal crises 
such as coming of age, getting married, birth of children, bereave- 
ment, and death. On such occasions organized religion in all different 
cultures tends to come into its own. 
In this country many people who never darken the church’s door 
from one year’s end to another go in at such times; even though 
justices of the peace and mortuary chapels are becoming more common 
today, marriage and death are still primarily functions of the church. 
It is to be recognized, however, that crises not only tend to be asso- 
ciated with religious quickening, they’re also periods of danger. 
That’s something we see at the mental hospital. We have certain 
recognized forms of mental illness that are associated with just these 
periods. 
The largest group in any mental hospital has been given the name 
“dementia praecox” because it was supposed to be associated with 
the adolescent period. 
133 We know that getting married is, for a good many people, a period 
of stress and danger, and I’ve dealt with at least five fathers who 
had very severe psychoses at the time their wives have had children. 
It isn’t only women who have difficulty at such times. 
Crises, then, tend to make and also to break. 
Recently, I spent quite a little time studying the development of 
the Holiness sects which were so much in evidence during the 1930’5. 
One of the most striking things to me is the fact that this period of 
economic depression was not marked, as many thought it would be, 
by any demonstrable increase in mental illness. On the other hand, 
it was marked by a very rapid development of these mystical sects. 
My study indicated that these sects had been growing very rapidly, 
and they had been growing among those on whom the strains fell 
most heavily. The explanation seemed to be that economic distress 
tended to increase the sense of fellowship; people were suffering 
together through no fault of their own. They were thus led to think 
and feel together intensely about the things that matter most. 
On that account, there was a lessening of the sense of guilt and 
estrangement, which is the major causative factor in functional 
mental illness, and an increase in this sense of fellowship. That 
meant conditions favorable to religious experience. 
Now, in spite of these considerations, I think we will have to 
recognize that war has very seldom been associated with important 
religious movements, even though it is the greatest of all social crises. 
Now, why is that? 
My first suggestion is that war, as a rule, represents a malignant, 
rather than a benign reaction. The tendency is to project blame, 
to think in terms of black and white, to blame the enemy instead of 
looking within. The consequence is that there is generally an incor- 
rect diagnosis, and we mistake the real enemy. 
Dr. Hammill: I’d like to ask Dr. Boisen what he means when 
he says war is seldom associated with any important religious move- 
ment? What about the crusades? 
Dr. Boisbn: Well, I wouldn’t call the crusades important religious 
movements. I’m thinking of such movements as Christianity itself, 
which arose among the underprivileged people of a subject race, of the 
Anabapisl Movement, of the Wesleyan Movement, and of the revival- 
ism in the early part of the last century which arose among people 
who had been driven out of the South by competition with slave labor. 
Let us look now at the tendency to mistake the real enemy. The 
real enemy is, after all, not a matter of flesh and blood. The real 
enemy is not the German people or the Japanese people. 
Here for example is a man who holds that the only solution after 
we have beaten the Germans is to destroy them, and he proposes 
to do that by enslaving them and sterilizing them. 
134 Now, my contention would be that that man represents the spirit 
of the Nazis that we’re supposed to be fighting against. But his 
philosophy is their philosophy and his attitude is their attitude. 
In this connection I’d like to quote some remarks I picked up about 
twenty years ago when I was making a study of the Negro Pente- 
costal Missions in Boston. 
A Negro preacher was holding forth, after indulging in some very 
unflattering remarks about education and educated people, he went 
on as follows: “Say, you know we Holiness folk we don’t fit in 
nowhere. It’s cause we’ve got Jesus in us . . . 
“Paul was an educated man, but these men we was talking about 
was ignorant men. Jesus chose twelve ignorant men and only one 
educated man. Not many wise, not many mighty are called. God 
will take a man from out of the gutter and clean him up and set 
him before kings . . . 
“We’re farther from God today than ever. What did you see in 
the war ? Priests and ministers on both sides standing up and praying 
God to kill the other side. And they were educated men! German 
priests and ministers asking God to kill Englishmen and Frenchmen 
and Americans and French and English and American priests and 
ministers standing up and asking God to kill Germans! What was 
God to do ? And they were educated men! 
“Oh, you see the trouble is today that every dog is after his own 
tail. The Irish is stuck on hisself. The white man he look out for 
hisself, and the black men for hisself, and the Japanese, he stick out 
his chest and look out for hisself. We don’t have all things in 
common.” 
I think that Negro preacher had a real point. 
Another factor is the dominance of the Army and its culture. The 
Army is a continuing body with traditions, beliefs and attitudes of 
its own, all based upon the requirements of war. And there are very 
sharply contrasting objectives in war and in peace. In consequence, 
we have considerable opposition between the military and civilian 
virtues. 
Among military virtues obedience is very important, as contrasted 
with the stress upon self-reliance in civilian groups. Courage is empha- 
sized, instead of self-control of the sex drive, and there is intense 
and narrow devotion as against kindliness and tolerance. 
For these reasons, then, although war does increase the sense of 
fellowship, although it does force men to do fresh and earnest think- 
ing, the sense of fellowship is limited to the “in-group”, and the 
earnest thinking doesn’t always issue in constructive results. There 
are, however, some constructive features that come out of the war 
situation. 
War is not necessarily disassociated from religious quickening. 
Among the constructive aspects are social change. This war, I take 
it, is going to force China out of its unchanging ways, force it to 
135 accept our modern machine civilization, if that is a blessing. It may 
even force us to give up our own isolationism. 
War also means enlarged horizons, it means intensification of 
fellowship. 
Perhaps the most striking example of the positive effects of war 
is to be found in the history of the Hebrew-prophetic religion. The 
Hebrew religion in the beginning was a tribal religion, with Jehovah 
thought of as a war god. 
The Hebrews believed that Jehovah had chosen them from out of 
all the peoples of the world to be his people, that he had made with 
them a covenant and that so long as they kept this covenant, all 
would be well with them. If they were recreant, they would be 
destroyed. Then, in the course of years reverses came, national 
reverses, and the question arose, “What is the meaning of this, is 
our faith mistaken?” 
We know the answer of the great Hebrew prophets; “Our faith 
is not mistaken,” they said, “but the trouble is that we have sinned 
and Jehovah is angry. The Assyrians and Babylonians are merely 
instruments in his hand, but Jehovah is a just God. Therefore, if 
we turn from our evil ways, a remnant will be saved.” 
Now, it doesn’t follow that this view of theirs was correct. The 
Assyrians and the Babylonians were strong and warlike peoples. Even 
though the Hebrews had kept their covenant faithfully, they might 
have been conquered anyway. But the prophetic interpretation was 
a benign reaction, not a malignant one. It set them looking for the 
evils within their own gates, and trying to correct those evils. 
Then, in the Second, Isaiah, we have a deeper insight: “Israel,” 
Isaiah said, “is the righteous servant of the Lord, suffering for the 
redemption of mankind. There is a meaning in it and if we do our 
part bravely, blessing will come out of it.” 
As I understand it, that interpretation was what influenced Jesus 
in his concept of his Messianic role. The great problem before him 
was the fate of his people, and he was forced to the conclusion that 
the old hope of a place in the sun would have to be given up. That, 
for him, was virtually the experience of death, but he came out of 
it with a new message, a message for the entire world. 
It is very important from the standpoint of this general thesis to 
recognize that the religion of Jesus was made a world-wide religion 
by a representative of his enemies, the Apostle Paul, the Pharisee, 
who may be looked upon as the answer to the prayer on the cross. 
It was this representative of his enemies, then, who freed Christian- 
ity from the ritualistic fetters which would have kept it a minor sect 
within the Hebrew religion and who carried it throughout the entire 
Roman Empire. 
Now, as I see it, one of the greatest opportunities, and the great 
need in this new situation which will confront us is that of enlisting 
the returning Servicemen and utilizing their splendid resources in 
appropriate social action. They are going to have a great many 
136 problems. They’re going to have problems arising out of the handling 
of aggressive impulses that have been unleashed during the war, and 
after the war is over will have to find other outlets. 
They will have problems arising out of the requirement of obedi- 
ence. That requirement has resulted in a vast amount of repressed 
hostility. We know that soldiers habitually are accustomed to indulge 
in all sorts of criticism, grouching, and fault finding. That tendency 
may continue when peace comes. The requirement of obedience may 
have lessened the development of the inner controls they will need 
in civilian life. Instead of developing a healthy self-reliance they 
may clamor for pensions and bonuses and be ready to knuckle under 
to Fascist leaders. 
On the other hand the war experiences may have enlarged their 
horizons. In many cases it will increase their sense of power, 
their readiness to serve in some great cause. I know of no more 
important therapeutic influence than that of a cause in which they 
can be enlisted. 
In the last war I spent nearly two years at the front. I had thus 
an opportunity to see something of the problems and attitudes of 
Servicemen. My experience however was with men w’ho had volun- 
teered. I was with the First and then with the Forty-Second Divi- 
sion. Practically all of these men had enlisted of their own free 
will out of a love of adventure or in response to what they regarded 
as a great cause. I have the impression that spirit is not so evident 
today, that our fighting men today are somewhat cynical regarding 
the possibility of a better world. I have also the impression that 
there is far more mental illness today than in the last war. Certainly 
very little mental illness came under my direct observation among 
the volunteers of World War I. There seems to be a great deal today. 
If there is such a contrast it may well be accounted for by the absence 
among our Servicemen today of the feeling that they were fighting 
for a great cause and by the further consideration that their own 
consent was not asked for. They were forced into the service and 
many felt this as an intolerable affront to their personal dignity. 
This very absence of the utopian motive in the present war brings 
perhaps all the greater challenge to the forces of religion to come 
forward with a commanding summons and to enlist the splendid 
resources and the fighting spirit of the returning servicemen in behalf 
of the cause of peace. And to the extent that these men can find 
constructive expression for their aggressive tendencies in behalf of 
a great cause, to that extent they should find health and happiness. 
The Chairman: Doctor Boisen has opened up the question. We 
will not have discussion yet, but ask Mr. Dicks, the Chaplain at 
Wesley Memorial Hospital, to lead us forward with these ideas in 
mind which Dr. Boisen has raised. 
Can we say what the results are in religion? Is it a good religious 
reaction, or an unfortunate one, that is taking place in the lives 
of these men? What are the possibilities of conserving the best? 
137 Mr. Dicks: I’d like to shift the subject of the personal crisis just 
a little from what Dr. Boisen has described because I’ve been observ- 
ing it in a situation where it arises outside the normal personal crises, 
as he suggested; that is, being born, and coming of age, and dying, 
and so forth, those things which come to all persons. 
In a general hospital we frequently see a kind of crisis in a person 
who is physically handicapped. One person will be conscious of the 
fact that of all the people he knows he is the one who has a broken 
back, and therefore, that personal crisis is in a different category 
or area from the person who is facing death and recognizes that all 
persons die. 
Two or three days ago a man asked me to come to see him, who 
said he had been treated for a physical condition, and the treatment 
had been successful, but he was still left with a terrific pain in his 
abdomen. The doctor told him it would go away. He thought it 
wouldn’t. He didn’t say, “Why did God do this to me,” but the 
fact that he sent for the chaplain rather than someone else, implied 
it. This attitude toward a personal crisis, “Why has God done this 
to me ? ” is very old in religious literature. 
Right alongside that I place another man who, two weeks ago, 
asked me to come to see him. His attitude was, “I can’t let God 
help me.” He is a successful business man, but when he gets tired 
he goes off and gets drunk. He just goes on a real bender all by 
himself. As that has been happening with increasing frequency he’s 
getting quite worried about it. He is a trustee in his church and is 
thoroughly familiar with the religious teachings of his church and 
knows from the teaching of the church that God does help a person 
in a personal crisis, but he says, “I can’t let God help me.” 
Those two different attitudes are quite different toward the per- 
sonal crisis but with definite religious implications. 
A few months ago I went to see a flyer who, as a result of an auto- 
mobile accident, had broken his back. Now, it is the height of insult 
for a flyer to be hurt in an automobile accident. If he had been hurt 
in a crackup of his plane, I’m sure his attitude would have been 
rather different, but he had been hurt when he was off duty, and 
he faced the rest of his life from a wheelchair. 
His attitude was different from the attitude which we see among 
the wounded where they are surrounded by others in the same condi- 
tion. This man was isolated, and he felt that it wasn’t quite fair. 
One does not run into any serious emotional problems, by and 
large, with handicapped persons and physically disabled men, as a 
result of wounds, when they are surrounded by other wounded men. 
When they get out of the security of the hospital, go out among 
civilians and civilians start staring at them, asking them questions, 
then the crisis becomes acute. 
Another instance which just came to my attention was that of a 
brother of one of my students in the seminary whose plane was shot 
down over a neutral country. His plane burned and most of the 
members of the crew were killed, and he was imprisoned in this 
138 neutral country. Now, because he was a restless kind of guy and 
wanted to get back into the war, he and his friends kept trying to 
escape, making seven different attempts before he was successful. 
He finally did succeed in escaping, returning to England and then 
finally home. He’s just gotten home, and he’s very bitter, not toward 
the Germans, but he’s bitter toward this neutral country because of 
the way he was treated there and because they did not live up to the 
terms of the International Convention which regulated the treatment 
of prisoners. This country isn’t even a belligerent in the war, and 
he’s very bitter toward that country. He is also bitter toward our 
own government officials there, because of their failure to insist that 
the American soldiers receive better treatment, who were imprisoned 
there. 
My student said his brother’s first reaction was that he didn’t want 
to talk about his experiences, and he was not pushed, but he returned 
again and again to describe the experience. The result was that 
within twenty-four hours he had told the complete story of being 
shot down in his plane, and then he had talked about all this other 
experience. It was followed by anxiety, an acute anxiety condition; 
he continued to have nightmares, and he is now on his way to a 
treatment center in Florida. 
As this flyer talked with his brother, his bitterness seemed to lift, 
and emotionally he was helped tremendously. On the basis of psychi- 
atric treatment, which we are all familiar with, his brother feels the 
flyer will be all right within a few weeks after he is placed under 
treatment and can go over his story thoroughly. However, there are 
certain attitudes which will stay with him all his life, his brother 
feels, certain attitudes which will color his whole outlook on the 
world. 
Now, to go on to another problem, the problem of the wife. We are 
always tempted to cite the bizarre cases; they ’re the ones which inter- 
est ns most. One came to my attention in Detroit. I think it’s unusual, 
but here’s a soldier’s wife with two children. The thought had never 
entered her head to look at another man until her husband was called 
in the Army and was away for a period of time, and then she had 
one and then another, and finally by the time the case was reported 
to me by a counselor she had lived with seven different men. She has 
no desire whatsoever to have her husband return and says she will 
not live with him again because she is not going back to the drudgery 
of being a housewife. The counselor feels there is little chance of 
reclaiming her, that she is just one step from commercial prostitution. 
This instance is unusual but I was told by a chaplain who served 
in the Aleutians that one man after another committed suicide, 
brought about by letters which came from wives which said, “You’ve 
been away so long now, and I’m sorry to have to tell you that I’ve 
fallen in love with someone else.” In El Paso, Texas, one of our 
men reported that within a period of five weeks six returning soldiers 
had killed their wives. Probably most of the returning Servicemen 
will not be inclined to take such drastic measures with their wives, 
but many will. 
139 I was told by a Red Cross worker about a crack infantry division 
which was sent to Iceland. At that time Iceland was considered Num- 
ber One in point of danger, by the military commands. This division 
was kept in Iceland for two years. During those two years Iceland 
dropped to twenty-third on the Military Command’s list, so far as 
point of danger was concerned. Then the division was shipped to 
England, and within a month after arriving in England, members 
of the division committed twenty-eight murders and suicides. Why 
they waited until they got to England to start killing off each other 
and other people around them would be rather interesting if we 
could do a case study, but, nevertheless, that was the story reported. 
We see there the accumulation of tensions which supports a theory 
I have that boredom and loneliness is the most vicious human emotion 
that we experience. It really is more vicious in its far-reaching impli- 
cations than is the emotion of anxiety which concerns us during war- 
time, and which we had so impressively presented yesterday morning 
by Commander Schwartz. 
Another instance was reported by one of my former students who 
is now a chaplain in Calcutta, India. This counseling opportunity 
came to him while he was serving in an Army infantry division in 
training. A soldier came into their outfit as a replacement. This 
man had been in the early fighting in the Guadacanal Area and had 
gone through some bitter experiences there, had been wounded several 
times, and in one bit of action only twenty-eight members of his 
company came out alive. As he talked with the chaplain, his imme- 
diate problem and crisis was that the division had been alerted, and 
he thought he wasn’t ready to fight, and that, plus the fact he was 
to become a father, brought another crisis. This soldier, as he talked 
with his chaplain, went into a trance-like state as he repeated these 
combat experiences. They reached a climax at a point where he told 
about a time when the Japs were infiltrating, and a Japanese soldier 
was crawling in front of his foxhole; as they weren’t permitted to 
fire this American soldier leaped on the Japanese, and they engaged 
in a hand-to-hand tussle; when it was over he had cut the Jap’s head 
completely off. 
In a trance-like state, weeping intensely, the soldier repeated over 
and over again, after he had told the story, “I wasn’t raised to do 
a thing like that”, which brought clearly into focus the conflict from 
which he was suffering. His early training, his religious training, and 
the training which our American boys are accustomed to, is so differ- 
ent from war demands that they rebel against the awful conditions. 
This leads me to my conclusion, that the anxiety problem with which 
we are concerned in war, at heart, is a religious problem, because 
anxiety, sooner or later, ties up specifically, with the problem of death. 
Religion has always concerned itself with death. 
So far as we can observe clinically, there is not much difference in 
the way the average religious person dies and the average non-religious 
person. We often see the person who has not expressed a formal 
religious belief dying nobly, interested in protecting his family after 
he has gone, making it easier for them. 
140 On the other hand, we can observe this clinically—that a person 
who is mature in his religion, has a faith and has some understanding 
of why people suffer, and why there is suffering, that person dies 
with a courage and a triumph that we cannot observe in persons who 
are not religious. This observation has very far-reaching implications 
for the mental hygienist as he studies the whole problem of anxiety and 
of fear. 
The Chairman : At a White House conference in Washington a few 
years ago a committee discussing the relation of religion to education 
put out a document in which they said the resources of religion should 
be made available to every child. They did not define the resources of 
religion. Chaplain Dicks has just described a few cases. He’s done 
the thing which we asked him. He didn’t tell us how he deals with 
them as a chaplain. It may be that as we come to discussion later, 
you will want to ask specifically how to deal with a particular case. 
What are the resources of religion in meeting such cases? You may 
find that members of the panel or members of the audience would 
have quite different ways of meeting these and would think of the 
resources of religion quite differently. 
Mr. Lowder will now introduce the topic of the place of the church 
in this whole situation. 
Mr. Lowder: I’ve been asked to deal with the subject: “The church 
reorganizing for more effective service.” I suspect that that term, 
‘ ‘ reorganizing, ’ ’ was used purposely. 
Perhaps it would be rather startling to a great many ministers to 
think that it was necessary totally to reorganize a church in order 
to readjust with the returning Serviceman. They think in terms of 
adding, perhaps a Servicemen’s committee, or some other type of com- 
mittee, but not in terms of any far-reaching reorganization, but I be- 
lieve that that is not too strong a term to use. We need to critically 
examine and thoroughly reorganize, if necessary, the church, in the 
present time of readjustment. 
The attitude of returning Servicemen toward the church has been 
a matter of speculation to a great many religious leaders. They have 
heard that many men under stress of danger and needing a sense of 
security, have learned to pray. They have been told that many of 
these men may be coming back with a new interest in the church, and 
they would like to believe so. 
But others feel that that is not likely, that the return to religion 
under stress is likely to result rather in the repudiation of religion 
later; that these young men will come back critical of the church. 
I know of a young man who recently came back after two years in 
the Pacific. He went rather reluctantly with his parents to church 
on Sunday morning. He hadn’t been particularly interested in the 
church before he went away but had turned to religion while in 
danger. He managed to endure the service, and after he got out of 
the church he said, with considerable feeling to his mother, “I’ll 
bet there weren’t three real Christians in that service this morning.” 
141 I believe that young man is typical of a great many who will do 
some thinking about religion while they are away. Religion, to them, 
does not mean attendance at church, but praying in a foxhole at 
night with an enemy lurking nearby intent on one’s death, or a 
mumbled prayer as one embarks from a landing boat and struggles 
up a beach with a hail of death spitting forth from the trees. They 
will think of religion in terms of something vital and real, not in 
terms of formalities or rituals, or attendance at church meetings. 
They are likely to be critical of the church. 
If the church is to be of any real aid to these men who are return- 
ing with these critical attitudes, it must have a new birth, a revitaliza- 
tion of its program. It needs to critically examine its beliefs, its 
organization, its program and life. Mere verbal expressions of con- 
cern for these young men, whether uttered in sermons, in prayers 
to God, or in letters sent abroad to them, will mean little if there is 
no expression in actuality of that concern when they return. They 
want a church that knows why it is a church and what it is trying to 
accomplish, that is vital, effective, alive. 
The church must try to understand the returning Servicemen. It 
cannot be expected that these men will return as they went away, for 
just as the home, church, community, and every individual that com- 
poses them have changed, these young men will have changed, and 
even more deeply and radically. They will differ greatly in their 
reactions. Some will return with a desire to forget their war experi- 
ence, others with a yearning to talk about it and to be a hero in the 
sight of their friends. Some will return with an eagerness to assert 
their independence, others will be unable for a time to make choices 
in areas where someone in the military forces had made choices for 
them. They may return appreciative or extremely critical, pre- 
occupied or communicative, sobered or boisterous, pugnacious or docile. 
To meet their needs the church must try to understand them. 
The services they need in an acute degree are the services which the 
church at its best has always rendered. Some of the functions which 
the church has attempted to fill in society are these: First, it has 
sought to provide a creative group life in which individuals feel them- 
selves accepted, that they belong. Hence, as the Serviceman returns, 
the church offers a symbol of the acceptance and the approval of the 
total community. It presents the one complete fellowship, for in 
theory, at least, all are accepted as of intrinsic worth and as of 
children of a heavenly father. 
Secondly, the church attempts to relate man to the ultimate, to help 
him to take the long look, to see himself and his problems in the 
light of an ongoing divine process, to enable him to trust his uni- 
verse and the power which created it and him and to know that ulti- 
mately, no matter what his war experience may have brought, all will 
be well. 
In other words, it attempts to give him ultimate security. 
Third, the church has provided education in the ideas, ideals, values 
and beliefs of the race; it has sought to transmit a philosophy of life, 
142 and to stimulate thinking which might lead to the acquiring of a more 
adequate philosophy where the philosophy which it mediated was not 
accepted. It has sought to educate for a world community, and to 
provide a powerful cohesive uniting force that brings man closer to 
man, and draws groups and races and nations into one family. 
Fourth: The church has sought to render direct services to people, 
or to assist them to find those services. It has served as the agency 
relating persons in need to the specialized welfare agency equipped 
to give the specific services required by each particular individual. 
It has provided counseling, the opportunity for confession, release 
from hatred, fear, worry or guilt. 
Fifth: It has provided a channel for constructive activity, for self- 
expression, for the rendering of services to others, both distant and 
near. At its best it has given a cause so great as to command the 
total allegiance of the individual—the building of a brotherly, Christ- 
like world. 
The Serviceman needs each of these services which the church offers. 
These are but a few. Each of them is tremendously important in its 
relation to the returning Serviceman or woman. 
But the practical question comes to us: How can the church reor- 
ganize to fulfill these functions effectively ? Most churches would profit 
by having a small carefully selected committee to give serious thought 
to this total problem. While it is perhaps true that not many churches 
will arrive at the conclusion that they need radical reorganization, 
practically all will find that they can, by taking thought, bring a new 
emphasis, a new approach, in every phase of their work, which will be 
exceedingly beneficial, and will equip them to serve more effectively 
in the post-war period. 
Many churches have Servicemen’s commmittees, but all too often 
these Servicemen’s committees are giving most of their attention 
merely to the sending out of gifts or letters to men in the Service. 
This needs to be done. But there needs to be also active post-war 
planning and strong efforts to create a revitalized church, a church 
empowered, organized for and geared to action. There is no time to 
waste in accomplishing this, for the post-war period is beginning now. 
One of the first things a veteran wants when he gets back is a job. 
Often he wants his old job back and Selective Service is organized to 
help him secure that. But many men will want new jobs. Some 
churches are organizing employment committees. Such committees 
should relate themselves to the local office of the United States 
Employment Service and to other job-finding agencies in the com- 
munity. They should have among their members representative busi- 
ness men, persons skilled in vocational counselling, and others trained 
as educators. Sometimes the securing of a job does more for a man’s 
mental health than any other one thing that can happen to him. 
One of the most valuable committees that churches are now forming 
might be termed the counselling committee. Such a committee is 
usually composed of persons skilled in counselling, intelligent, and 
143 with a native sympathy and understanding. Its members seek to give 
friendship and counsel to returning Servicemen. Ideally the members 
of such a committee receive some special training in order that they 
may understand the therapeutic possibilities in sympathetic listening, 
learn counselling skills, and come to recognize the danger signals by 
which they may know when the problem is too serious for them to 
handle. These committees ought to deal only with the so-called 
“normal” cases. If possible, the church should add to the committee 
a case worker, preferably a psychiatric case worker, to handle the more 
difficult cases and make referrals. 
The question often arises as to whether the church should set up a 
special organization for the returned Servicemen themselves. There is 
a difference of viewpoint about this. Ideally, it would seem that the 
sooner the man can become a part of the normal community life, the 
better. Yet it must be recognized that many of these men will need, 
for a while, to be with those who can understand what they are talking 
about, and what they have been through, because these have had the 
same experience. At home, when the returned Serviceman tries to 
talk about his traumatic experience, well-meaning relatives may try 
to discourage him, saying, “It’s all over now, let’s forget it.” But he 
has to talk it out to obtain the needed release. 
The church needs to be very wise at this point. Perhaps a good plan 
would be to wait and see if the veterans themselves want such an 
organization in the church. They may not need or desire it. If it is 
seen that they are going to move outside the church and become a part 
of a group life not conducive to their best welfare, the wise church will 
offer a more constructive veterans fellowship under its own roof. 
The most important thing that any church can do in preparing for 
the returning Serviceman is to see that a new vitality and a new 
reality comes into its total organization. Many of these men will re- 
turn with a greater interest in social problems than they have had 
before. The church which expects to interest them will do well to have 
a realistic social action program. 
Also many of the returning Servicemen will have a new interest in 
missions and some will respond to appeals to prepare themselves and 
give their lives in missionary service. Many churches have never 
learned how to gear effectively into world service. They will have an 
opportunity to utilize the new and broadened interest and growing 
leadership ability in the men who have returned from other lands. 
If they are honestly tackling the problems, the injustices, the preju- 
dices, and discriminations in society in their own community, and 
working practically for a new world community, they will win the 
respect of the returning Serviceman. 
It is very important that ministers and church committees con- 
cerned to help returning Servicemen learn the techniques of the 
referral of cases. They must know how the community is organized 
for social welfare and how they can secure for the returning Service- 
man, with a minimum of delay, the services he needs. If the church 
144 is not prepared intelligently to help him in this respect it will add to 
his confusion and he will quickly turn to other agencies. 
In conclusion let me reiterate, if the church can present to the 
returning Serviceman a greater crusade than he has known in the past, 
and is so organized that it can put him effectively to work, the re- 
turned Serviceman will not only not be indifferent to or the enemy of 
the church, but will be its staunchest friend and most active and con- 
structive member in the years ahead. 
The Chairman: We have a cross-section of people in the Army and 
Navy from America, and some of them were interested in the church 
before they went into service. What is the chance they will be more 
interested when they come back? What is this church that you are 
talking about? What is the Illinois Society for Mental Hygiene? Is 
that Dr. Novick? 
When we ask for a church to do certain things, and the church to 
say certain things, what are we talking about ? Who says them ? How 
are they made meaningful to people ? The things of which Mr. Lowder 
has spoken? What is fellowship? How do you create a fellowship? 
What kinds of fellowship do you like to be in? God save us from 
some fellowships. What kind of fellowship will be the one that will 
satisfy the varied kind of needs? 
Now, we are going to ask Mr. Witte and Rabbi Levy to sharpen up 
some of these things of which we talked so you can begin to puncture, 
as far as you will, this philosophy, and ask, “How do you do this in 
specific situations?” We have had some good suggestions made to 
us this morning; will it work ? 
Will you start in where you will, wade right in, Rabbi Levy? 
Rabbi Levy : I am very much in the same position that Dr. Chave 
is. I’d like to ask myself how are you going to do these things. I 
don’t come here with any omniscience or any superior wisdom to that 
of my audience that enables me to lay down certain rules or certain 
modes of procedure you don’t already know. The chances are the 
religious bodies will have to do many things, some old, some new. I 
was really surprised at the excellent presentation of the men who have 
preceded me in giving the general picture on the one hand, and on 
the other hand illustrating it very frequently by specific instances. 
Of course, it’s much easier to give specific instances and to say, this 
is my experience, this I’ve done, this has been accomplished, and this 
has not been achieved. 
But we are met here, I suppose, more or less, in a consultative 
capacity to see what religion and psychiatry can do together. They 
have a common object, have they not, in that they want to make the 
man feel at home in the world, large and small, of which he is a part. 
Religion’s purpose is to make a man feel that he is not a stranger 
in the world, and when the psychiatrist gets hold of his patient, the 
latter usually reveals that he doesn’t feel safe, that there is something 
wrong with him. He is not as comfortable as he might be. How much 
can religion succeed, and how much can religion and psychiatry do 
145 together, to ease the situation. I don’t know. Sometimes they work 
wonders. I don’t think that religion is the handmaid of psychiatry. 
I don’t agree with Professor Link whose whole concept of religion is 
that it is a therapeutic means at the disposal of the psychologist. 
I think religion has something to say for itself that however can 
only appeal to a limited number, to a man who is religious. If you’re 
a man who is religious, you’re on safe ground; you’re on the road 
whereon if there is a certain quirk to be straightened out, if there are 
tensions, you can possibly relieve them or release them by your faith 
that God takes care of you. 
If, on the other hand, a man is not religious, what are you going to 
do about it? You can easily say, “Let’s make him religious,” as some 
people do, and I think that’s the Christian approach. The Christian 
feels that a man must get religion, that a man must be born again. 
That isn’t our approach. The Jew doesn’t know anything about that. 
I speak as an outsider for I’m not criticizing Christianity, I’m 
simply observing it. 
I suppose if you can get a man to suddenly become religious, to 
become converted, you achieve something, but we don’t have that sort 
of thing in our church, as Dr. Chave called it. I would call it some- 
thing else. So that our problem is a bit different. I would like to say 
a word or two, even though it might not be the subject directly 
assigned to me, about some of the things that I think are going to be 
specifically Jewish problems, with which the psychiatrist will have to 
deal, with which some of you, the social workers, will have to deal. 
The Jew has been pounded throughout the centuries, so often and 
so long, that it is, perhaps, a commonplace in psychiatry to say that 
he is much more frequently a ease for the psychiatrist than is his 
gentile brother, and it is, perhaps, not without significance, that the 
very science of psychiatry has been founded, or furthered and fos- 
tered by Jews like Freud and others, because it was a response to an 
inner urge, perhaps an unconscious urge, to something they had to 
answer in themselves or from themselves. 
The Jew has never since his dispersion among the nations been at 
home in the world. He’s had no place to go to that he can call his own, 
and in addition, has had to bear the usual ills and slanders of the 
world in which he lives. It is well and good for that Jew who is so 
completely religious that he relies on God and feels with God he is 
perfectly at home come what will, come martyrdom, come extermina- 
tion. You know, five or six million Jews have been killed by Hitler, so 
you know the tension under which the Jew lives. Even though he may 
live in the comparative safety of the United States or elsewhere, he 
cannot look with any degree of equanimity upon the extermination of 
his fellow Jews, and the American boy, the American Jewish boy and 
girl, the former in the Army and the latter at home or even in the 
Service, feel some of these things very keenly, certainly they are not 
as much at home in a friendly world as is the non-Jew. 
In my congregation there are almost three hundred boys and girls 
in the service. I’ve seen letters from other boys in other congregations, 
146 and I’ve talked to Jewish chaplains, and so the generalizations I 
make are not without foundation. Here are these boys supposedly 
fighting for democracy, fighting to make the world free, a better world. 
Yet, they run up against discrimination in their own Army and Navy. 
Sometimes it is true they imagine these discriminations, but sometimes 
these are real. They find that their fellow Gentiles look upon them as 
made of not quite the same stuff as non-Jews are made of. There is a 
fairly common report in the Army and in the Navy, from soldiers and 
sailors, that the war is a Jewish war, that we’re fighting this war to 
save the Jews. Men say, “when we get out, we’ll fix those Jews; 
Hitler is right.” How widespread it is, I don’t know. I don’t pre- 
tend to say that it is universal. 
Imagine what that does to the Jewish boy! I heard one sailor say, 
“Why, the Jews don’t die in battle, they have all the easy jobs.” 
This regardless of the fact that we Jews have our proportion of 
wounded and our proportion of deaths. You can’t argue with that 
kind of boy. It’s a gentile psychiatric problem at the same time. 
Chaplains tell me that there are two frequent questions that Jewish 
boys present to them. One is the problem of God, the very core of 
religion, and the second is the problem of hatred on the part of their 
fellows, what is commonly called anti-Semitism. What are we going 
to do ? I mean what is religion going to do ? What is the psychiatrist 
going to do ? I don’t know how to answer that problem. I don’t know 
that we can. Techniques may help us, of course, but they are never 
going to solve the problem until you remove the causes of the problem. 
As long as Jew and gentile dislike each other, or as long as a portion 
of the gentile world looks down upon the Jews, either because of 
religion, or because of the latter’s origin or nationality, you’re going 
to have problems of that kind arising. We have it here in Chicago at 
the present moment, tension between children, high school children; 
Jewish boys and girls manhandled because they’re Jews. It happened 
in my own neighborhood. 
And the Jewish boy or girl is willing to give his or her life for this 
country. He or she is willing to die for the United States, and yet is 
not tolerated, let alone appreciated, by those who have a different 
faith or who have a different origin. Naturally this precipitates a 
mental crisis producing inferiority and other complexes. 
I agree with practically every statement that has been made here, 
that we must present an ideal of brotherhood to our returning Service- 
men, an ideal of fellowship, and give them something to work for in 
the world in which they are to find themselves after the war is over. 
But if it’s going to be the same old world that it was before, with the 
same old hatreds, the same old misunderstandings, and the same old 
bickerings and discriminations, you’re not going to get very far. 
The Polish government in exile was asked about the Jews returning 
to Poland. You know, there were three million or more Jews in Poland, 
and two-thirds of them or more have been killed. Some of those Jews 
wanted to get back to their homes, but when the Polish minister was 
asked how the Polish government would view the return of the Jews 
to Poland, he said he would look upon it as an invasion. 
147 You gentiles don’t appreciate the position into which some of these 
Jews are put. I’m not saying that we Jews have all the virtues, but 
I do say that some of the very vices that you may criticize in us, 
gentiles are guilty of, and psychiatrists ought to know these things, 
and certainly the ministers, because sometimes religion actually is 
responsible for animosity toward the Jew. I say you people ought to 
know these things. You have a task in your churches to train your 
people to be a bit more tolerant. That is a job in itself. It’s a 
psychiatric job at the same time as it is a moral job and an ethical 
job; and we’re far from having reached anything like a degree of 
toleration that permits us to live happily together. 
In the second place, psychiatric workers will run across Jewish boys 
and girls who have gone “haywire” for one reason or another, where 
their symptoms or their cases are like those of which we have spoken. 
But where a psychosis manifests itself in certain things that are 
the deliberate result of hatred, and are the expression of a feeling of 
penalty for being a Jew, it requires a special kind of treatment, and 
I don’t know whether you’re ever going to devise any therapeutic- 
treatment that is going to cure that until you cure the rest of the 
world. 
So far as I’m concerned as a Jew, the greatest religious problem that 
faces Christianity is the change of its attitude; not Dr. Chave or these 
men here, I speak of the ordinary run of men, of Christians, the atti- 
tude in the Bible belt and elsewhere. You have to change their atti- 
tude toward the Jew. That’s a religious problem; that’s a Christian 
problem, and if you want to create a society in the United States that 
is to be sane, that is to be democratic, that isn’t to have too great a 
number of outcasts and of men who have gone wrong mentally, you’ll 
have to deal with these individuals as the cases arise, both Jew and 
gentiles, and you’ll have to prepare the ground in which we live, so 
that the environment will be a much happier and a healthier place. 
You’ll have to make the Jew feel that he can be at home here, particu- 
larly the Jewish boy and girl who return from the war and to whom 
the United States is home. 
I can’t make them feel at home; I can say, ‘'Yes, if you have God, 
yon don’t need anything else, or if you feel closely tied to your 
people, your historic group, you don’t need anything else,” but 
sometimes they will not take what I say. It’s the larger task for the 
larger group. If religion is to make a person feel at home, it’s our 
job as a whole group, all religions to see that the Jew does not feel 
homeless, psychologically, as well as otherwise. 
The Chairman: Now, we have some more problems thrown into 
our lap. Each speaker adds some more for us. Mr. Witte, what are 
you going to do, are you going to worry us some more? 
Mr. Witte; I am in the rather unenviable position of being the 
caboose on this train. Everything has been said, and so well said, 
that all I can do is make a resume, but perhaps I can inject something 
controversial to discuss. 
I would like to sharpen up a few things which have been said, and 
which I think have been implicitly stated in our discussion. The first 
148 thing is the fundamental and basic and primary objective of religion. 
That, it seems to me, is not to make man moral, not to help him 
adjust to his fellowmen, not to inspire him to build a better world; 
all of these things are by-products. The main objective is to reconcile 
man to God. Religion is to bind men back to God. So it’s immediate 
objective, as I see it, is to help him adjust to God, to establish the 
relationship between him and God described by the Psalmist in the 
words “We are his people and the sheep of his pasture.” 
Psychologically, I think that is basic, because it is that which 
gives man the feeling of security and status in the universe, which, 
of course, is something altogether different from social security and 
social status. As my friend, the Rabbi, has hinted, Christianity 
approaches that problem from the standpoint of the Gospel, namely, 
that this reconciliation between man and God is brought about by 
the grace of God through the merits of Jesus Christ, our Lord. 
But every religion has to address itself to that problem, and the 
truly religious person is a person who can call God his father, and 
who has that feeling of intimate relationship, the parent-child rela- 
tionship, with God. I believe that it is there that we must start. 
Each of us dealing wih the individual in our own way. So that 
where this relationship has already been established, it must be 
strengthened, and where it has not been established, the person deal- 
ing with him, the pastor, the priest, the rabbi, must address himself 
to the establishment of that relationship because as the individual 
has that feeling of security in the universe, all these other problems— 
the problem of loneliness, for example—are on their way to solution. 
Certainly, this is true of the problem of anxiety, anxiety neuroses, 
which are so troublesome. 
I don’t know what else yon can say to the individual if you can’t 
throw him back on God. Certainly, the help of prayer is based on 
this fact, that there is someone who can do something about the 
situation. Psychologically, of course, I suppose that prayer is helpful 
insofar as it enables the individual to do something about his situation. 
Anxiety, worry, has been defined as a substitute reaction. In other 
words, it is something which we do instead of acting. It is something 
that we do when we can’t do anything else about it. That’s why it’s 
at night, generally, when we’re trying to woo Dame Slumber that we 
get all tangled up in these anxieties. So when an individual prays, 
he's doing something about it, and yet I think that’s poor comfort 
unless there is this conviction that He, in whom we live and move is 
God, who can do something about our problem. 
This problem of Rabbi Levy’s of tolerance also finds its solution 
in this reconciliation of the individual to God because it is only then 
that we realize the fundamental kinship which is between us and 
the whole human race. We are all children of God. That’s one thing 
that I do believe we ought to keep in mind; I think it’s beside the 
point here to argue whether or not there is a God or whether an 
individual should be put in relationship with Him. I am simply 
making the flat statement that there is a God, and that before man 
149 can go any place, he has to go to God and proceed from that point, 
and all the rest of these things need to be gotten at from that viewpoint. 
Now, to another thing, we ought to keep in mind the basic con- 
tributions that the returning soldier, the returning serviceman, can 
bring to this problem of adjustment, of his adjusting with us, and, 
particularly, in joining hands with us in trying to make this a better 
world in which to live. I believe that he has learned a great deal about 
this particular problem; that, as Dr. Boisen has pointed out, there 
have been some very real affirmative factors in his life as a soldier. 
He has learned group loyalty. People are telling us that one of the 
things which have been most helpful to the soldier is the feeling that 
he is part of a unit, and that’s particularly stressed in the Armed 
Forces, loyalty to the unit; soldiers not only belong to the First 
Army of the United States, they belong, let’s say, to the First Infantry 
Division or this tank corps, and so on, right down to a certain squad 
in their company, and they have learned to live with one another, 
and they have found that their whole welfare, their very lives depend 
upon how well they serve one another and how well the members of 
the group pull together as a unit. And when they go into battle, 
the thing that sustains them and makes them overcome their fear— 
and their anxiety, is the fact that they are going in there with their 
own group—“ Joe is here beside me—and together we’ll go on and 
see this thing through. ’ ’ 
Bringing that back into civilian life, it seems to me, is a tremendous 
contribution the returning servicemen can make to group living, to 
our interdependence. Also I think there is the feeling of humility, 
not being docile, but a humble recognition of their small part in the 
total effort, that others also are contributing to it, which our returning 
service personnel will share with the civilians. 
The third thing that I would like to sharpen up is the part of the 
church. 
I believe that the church sometimes makes the mistake in trying 
to be all things to all men, trying to do everything instead of sticking 
to the specialty it’s there for, to establish a relationship between man 
and God, and then the relationship between man and his fellowmen. 
Let the Church see specifically what its task is, specifically the pastor 
and let him address himself to that task without becoming emotionally 
involved in the situation but rather view it objectively, taking the pro- 
fessional approach. 
I have never been a physician, and I don’t know how the physician 
feels about his cases, but I suspect that if the physician became emo- 
tionally involved in every case of life and death under his knife or 
under his treatment, that he would soon crack up. I think that’s why 
physicians consider it unethical to treat members of their own family, 
because they are emotionally tied to the situation. If we can avoid 
that and avoid the other extreme of being too cold, it will be greatly 
helpful. 
In the second place the clergyman can learn from the case work 
approach. In seeldng to help the returning service man let him draw 
150 upon the available resources in the community. Where psychiatric 
treatment is indicated let’s not try to be an amateur psychiatrist but 
refer the service man to a qualified psychiatrist. 
Summing up, may I say, that the church should be conscious of 
what it has to offer and what its task is and devote itself to it. Church 
workers, however, should be familiar with the social resources of the 
community and refer service men who are in need of their services, 
to these agencies. It will be of distinct help if pastors and others of 
the church dealing with returning veterans have a sufficient knowledge 
of mental illness to enable them to recognize neuroses and psychoses 
and to refer such cases to psychiatrists. 
In conclusion I would like to express one word of caution, that we 
don’t regard psychiatry as a cure-all. I believe the pendulum has 
swung from the extreme rejection of psychiatry on the one hand, to 
a wholehearted acceptance of it. Many now believe that psychiatry 
is the answer to all our problems. The minute we are stymied we shift 
our problem to the psychiatrist, and the result is we’re sending many 
people to the psychiatrist who have no business there at all. It’s like 
sending the baby over to the doctor when all the baby has is hiccups, 
taking the doctor’s valuable time on something which is perfectly 
natural and will probably cure itself. 
The Chairman: It is difficult, when religion is discussed, to have 
time to work out satisfactorily any problem because there are so many 
ramifications. Mr. Witte has just introduced the theological aspect, 
and that, alone, would be plenty for us. The theological view is an 
emotional projection, and we have the two problems, the religious 
person who has an emotional reaction to religion trying to meet the 
emotional needs of other persons, and the question as to whether a 
rational approach can solve an emotional conflict. 
Rabbi Levy said that the biggest problem of the Jew was God. The 
biggest problem of the Protestant leaders is also God. This is one 
of the difficulties on which we have very little agreement, and yet, 
as Mr. Witte said, a good many assume that that is the primary 
adjustment that has to be made. 
What questions have you? 
Miss Elizabeth Alexander: (Central Service for Chronically 111) 
How does Mr. Dicks answer the questions, “Why has God done this 
to me?” and “I can’t let God help me.” 
Mr. Dicks: I cited those two illustrations as being quite opposite 
to each other. Yet in dealing with them one finds them surprisingly 
the same. I don’t answer the questions. I try to get an individual 
to answer his own questions. In the first illustration that I gave, the 
man implied the question—it never came into clear focus. He seemed, 
as he talked, to have secured whatever release he desired. 
Miss Alexander : Immediately without any explanation ? 
Mr. Dicks: Without anything from me, except attentiveness and 
encouragement. With the other man we’re not out of the woods at 
all. It’s a matter of listening to his story, and many times encour- 
151 aging him to talk about certain subjects to gain insight. In the end 
he will gain release from his immediate tensions and come to some 
understanding as to why, when he gets tired, he drinks. That may 
not be at all adequate. My desire will be to go further with him 
so that he may learn something about the actual experience of faith. 
I think that’s where we fail as religious people so much of the time. 
We talk about faith, and feeling at home in the world, but it is mere 
talk, it’s not actually experience. Faith demonstrated is what we 
need, so that when we get up to leave, the individual says, “Well, 
I guess the world is a pretty good place after all.” If he actually 
makes that statement himself he has gained release, and has made 
the first steps in coming to trust God. 
Rabbi Levy: Wouldn’t you talk to a man of that type of the 
disciplinary value of suffering and the figure on the Cross? Suffering 
has its value and its place. 
Mr. Dicks; I agree but I would not speak of it at the present 
time until I’ve gotten him out of the immediate tension because he 
is utterly incapable of taking in what I have to say. That’s where 
I feel the art of preaching and the art of pastoral work are different 
arts and why so many of our men fail. They still are following the 
Sunday art through the week. 
Mr. Paul T. Sanders: (The Community Center Foundation, Palos 
Park) Question to Mr. Witte. I had a minister bring a boy to me, 
discharged because of nervous disability, although he is pretty rational 
at the present time. The boy said to the minister, “The only people 
I trust is God and my mother and father.” This directing 
young peoples’ work in his church before he went away. He said, 
“They’re all a bunch of hypocrites.” That minister was at a loss 
to meet that boy’s need, because of the machinery of the church. 
How could that man get across to this boy the realization of God? 
The Chairman: You say the boy said he only trusted God and 
his parents? Now, you’re asking Mr. Witte, are you not, how this 
boy can be made to believe in God, and yet you say he does believe 
in God. 
Mr. Sanders; What I’d like to ask is this; How can he relate 
his own experience with God to what lie thinks is hypocrisy of the 
Church ? Should we tie this boy up with the Church or not ? 
The Chairman: I’m not quite sure what the question is. Are you 
asking the question, “Is the Church presenting a doctrine of God 
that the boy can believe in, or has the boy arrived at his doctrine of 
God independently of the church? 
Mr. Sanders; Yes, independent of the church. But I wondered 
if that could be tied in to the church. 
Mr. Witte; Well, all I could say is it would be the problem of 
that pastor to gain the confidence of that boy. That can’t be done 
in one interview. He’d have to get to know that boy and have that 
boy have confidence in him. Now, he may have to talk baseball or 
talk fishing or talk something else that boy is interested in. I think, 
152 as Dr. Dicks pointed out, you have to start with these people where 
they are and then bring them to where you are. 
The Chairman: You wouldn’t start by defending the Church? 
Mr. Witte: No, I don’t think so. I think Christ had more or 
less the same sort of approach. He talked to the people about fishing 
and vineyards and goodness knows what all. He talked to them where 
they lived. Your good psychiatric approach operates in the same 
manner. The psychiatrist begins by gaining the confidence of the 
individual, getting the individual to have faith in the psychiatrist. If 
the minister reaches that point with the boy, I think he’s well on 
his way to have faith in the organization which the minister represents. 
The Chairman : We have the problem as to whether the church 
is thought of as a local group, or whether it represents a great move- 
ment. If you’re trying to relate the God of the universe, of an 
infinite universe that has been operating through billions of years, 
you need the idea of a universal church and a religious movement 
which transcends sectarianism. 
I find in a good many eases, people are dissatisfied with the local 
church. Some of them find satisfaction in the greater movements 
of religion throughout the world which are timeless and non-sectarian. 
Is there any question relative to that, or does anyone want to speak 
on that point? 
Mr. Carl Stromie: (Elgin State Hospital) There is a distinc- 
tion that I think we should make between abstract religion and the 
experience of religion which serves to stabilize the person within the 
accepted group that he is a part of. The person must fit into a partic- 
ular group. Just to drop into any church and hear a preacher doesn’t 
bring satisfying concepts to a person. The minister is faced with 
the problem of the social stratification of a particular community, 
expressed in the church as well as in other organizations. 
Miss Mildred Seasworthy : It seems to me that for any reason- 
able person, it must be somewhat difficult to relate himself to a 
movement of what you call religion or the church in general. I mean 
if the person is intellectually mature, it seems to me he would demand 
that this thing that’s going to be so important a part of his life 
must have some objective truth. I don’t see how you can say a 
general movement of the church has objective truth when it is com- 
posed of many bodies that differ on important points, and I can 
well see how an individual would question his local group if it doesn’t. 
If he cannot reasonably accept what it teaches I don’t see how he 
could, relate to an even more general thing that has many more 
contradictions in it. 
The Chairman: To whom are you addressing your question? 
Miss Seasworthy: It’s just a comment. 
The Chairman: The comment comes as to whether religion can 
be felt as something which transcends a particular local expression 
of it. 
153 Mr. Lowder: Well, I think all religions have certain definite 
beliefs in common that are fundamental, on which they do not differ. 
For instance, a belief in God, men have different concepts about that 
power, but they all have a basic belief, and I think that’s the funda- 
mental thing that unites. . . . 
Miss Seasworthy : But what do you call God? 
The Chairman: Dr. Hayden will tell you that in the varied 
stories of religion God hasn’t been essential for the organization of 
religion, and many people today feel that the concept of God isn’t 
essential. 
Dr. Boisen: The thing that impresses me more and more is that 
the idea of God is a symbol operative in all of us whether we call 
ourselves religious or not. We are all social, and religious experience 
is really the sense of fellowship raised to its highest level. 
The Chairman: I hesitate to let this group get into a theological 
discussion. 
Mr. Witte: May I make this remark? That what is religion to 
one person may not be religion to another. In other words, you can 
substitute other things for God. Bolshevism substitutes the State for 
God, and the Humanists substitute Humanity for God. 
Dr. Hammill: In working with children, it’s become absolutely 
fundamental with me to see in them throughout childhood, throughout 
the growing period of life, the expectation that the future is going 
to be better than the present. They say, “I am going to be bigger, 
I am sure to be able to do more. ’ ’ 
At about ten or eleven, as far as I’ve gotten, every child says, 
‘‘God is a great big man who can do anything,” and he always looks 
up to the sky when he says that. Now, that’s something fundamental, 
as growth is fundamental, and I think it leads to the same kind of 
idea that the future is going to be perfect. That is heaven, of course. 
Now, whether that is the original source of the idea of God in 
heaven, or only one of the reasons why we’re willing to accept the 
idea of God in heaven, I am perfectly sure it’s a fundamental quality 
in all of us just as all of us have to grow and to discover whether the 
future will be better than the present. 
Rabbi Levy : I would answer the young lady by saying that nobody 
can raise himself by his own bootstraps, and that would probably 
be the general basis for belief in God. Your whole technique is to 
get something whereon a fellow can stand, and that is why I say 
nobody can raise himself by his own bootstraps. 
Sister Mary Reginald; (Mount Mercy Sanitarium, Dwyer, Indi- 
ana) I’d like to refer to Dr. Hammill’s statement. It seems to me 
that he goes back to the fundamental question, Does the child go to 
God automatically or innately turn to God? Is God essential to the 
human being ? Does his psyche turn to God naturally, as the biological 
may turn to material things. 
154 The Chairman: We have a question where someone might say, 
“What scientific data have you on this? Would people have this 
so-called innate response, if they didn’t grow up in a theistic group ?’ ’ 
It might be quite interesting to study the responses of children to 
see under what conditions they have these responses, what the con- 
tent of the responses are, and how much they are socially conditioned 
rather than conditioned by the nature of the universe. We have not 
much data on that. 
Miss Seasworthy: I just wanted to comment that in studies of 
primitive groups, I don’t think there is any known case in which 
the primitive groups do not have a concept of Cod. I think that 
shows, too, there is something innate. 
The Chairman : Perhaps we generalize on impressions rather than 
scientific data. 
Mrs. Schaar; (Social worker) A chaplain I know who recently 
returned from overseas discussed with a group of people some of 
the experiences of the men who had seen combat. One story revolved 
around a point in which thirteen people were killed by one bomb in 
England, several of them were military, and their poor, broken bodies 
were so mutilated that they were buried under a common headstone. 
The services were held by the Catholic, Protestant and the Jewish 
clergymen who were present at the time. This chaplain said his 
feeling was that the church must make its greatest contribution with 
a oneness of purpose and a oneness of social ideals irrespective of 
what happens to be the culture of the immediate church to whom the 
veteran may turn. Would Dr. Hammill be able to say more about 
that ? 
The Chairman: How about that? Does this spirit of love depend 
upon particular theological concepts, or is there something in the 
universe which operates as a law whatever theological terms you use ? 
Dr. Hammill: When it comes to love and religion and sects and 
so forth; and dirt and profanity and obscenity, and so forth; all 
mixed up together, I’ve been sitting here thinking, wondering what 
orthodoxy means. I know what is good at one time is bad at another, 
which seems to be something very different than from what I thought 
forty years ago. When it comes to the question of growing and these 
other things, I’m perfectly sure that every one of us growing up is 
bound to see the future better than the present. The first eighteen 
years of our lives are most important and I don’t believe you can 
uproot anything as thoroughly grown in as that. 
The Chairman : How would you account for suicide on that basis? 
If everyone has the belief that the future is going to be better, why 
does he quit? 
Dr. Boisen: Very frequently along with an attempt at suicide 
we find the idea of rebirth. 
Dr, Hammill: Absolutely, and anger is the principal thing. I 
am perfectly sure that anger and fear are just as important as love 
in the human makeup. The competitive thing is masculine; the lov- 
ing thing is women. 
155 The Chairman: Now, our time for closing is nigh. May I just 
summarize in a moment what I think we have tried to do ? 
We have faced the problem as to whether in this readjustment with 
the returning serviceman, religion may have a contributing part to 
play. Sometimes the"term religion has l)een associated with the activi- 
ties of the church. Sometimes it has been almost identified with 
theology. At other times it has been pretty closely related with a 
sympathetic understanding and a spirit of love. 
With all these factors operating we have what Dr. Boisen said, 
religion sometimes appearing in undesirable forms and at other times 
in growing desirable forms with men reaching toward the abiding 
truths and values of life. But as Dr. Dicks said, when we start to 
make religion meaningful to others, the most effective method is prob- 
ably not to try to transfer our ideas to other people but having a 
philosophy of our own, to enable others to put together their experi- 
ences in a way that their philosophy may satisfyingly meet their need. 
Mr. Lowder has suggested that the Church should be more than a 
committee in meeting the serviceman, that servicemen and women 
should feel a fellowship among people of sympathetic understanding. 
That the church is an enduring organization which ought to express 
its service in more and more effective fashion. 
Rabbi Levy helped us to see that our religion professes a good many 
ideals, but sometimes it falls short at that most critical place of 
learning to love our fellowmen. We also are reminded that Christian- 
ity had its origin in Judaism, and if Christian and Jew work and 
think together each will be forced to so expand his religious views 
that they will find many bonds of unity. 
Mr. Witte expressed his religious ideas with an emotional convic- 
tion reflecting a similar intensity of feeling as the rest of the panel, 
but expressing it differently. Though we do not all express our 
religious beliefs in the same orthodox theological fashion, we all may 
have deep convictions which we want to share with others. Yet we 
cannot transfer our faith directly to others for every person has to 
get his convictions out of his own experience and his struggle to 
live. If God is real people ought to be able to find him. They will 
not find him at the end of an argument, but in reflection upon the 
deep meanings of life’s critical experiences. 
In the experience of living men have gained their ideas, and these 
ideas are not uniform. The concepts of religion are bigger than 
anyone can put in any particular definition, and the values which 
we seek are greater than any particular institution can comprehend 
or exemplify. 
So perhaps we are moving, in this readjustment, to a more sym- 
pathetic understanding of the growth which must take place in us 
all. The fullest expressions of religion will come as we share the 
problems and opportunities of life together. 
156