MORRISSEY:

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY :

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

Oral History Interview
with
Representative John E. Fogarty

April 14, 1965

Washington, DeC

by Gharles T. Morrissey

for the John F. Kennedy Library
You were beginning your fourth term in Congress
when John Kennedy came down to Washington to begin
his first term. Had you met him before he was elected
to Congress?
No, I never met John Kennedy before January, 1947,
when he first arrived here in Washington, on
the scene.
Did you have any dealings with him?
Oh, he was a real young, bright fellow. I was
much younger, myself, in those days. We got
along very well together, We saw quite a bit of
each other «= we played golf and visited back and forth
in the offices. I tried to be of whatever help I
could, having had some experience at the Washington
level.
Did you serve fin any committees together?
No, we never did serve on the same committees. When
he came here in 1947, I was on the Appropriations
Committees; and I've been on that committee since.
He was on the Legislative Committees in the House,

Did you have any common legislative problems that

you consulted with each other about?
REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY:

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

~2Q=
He had a great deal of interest in health, as I
have had over the years. He used to talk to me
about some of our health problems and how we
could do a better job than we were doing at that
time. Also, right around that C22 snare was an issue
involving the unification of the country of Ireland.
We worked together on that for four or five
years. We never had any success, but we brought
it to the attention of the world on two or three
occasions, in the House of Representatives.
What did you think of his taking on Henry Cabot Lodge
in '52? Did you talk about this before he came to
the decision?
Yes, I used to ride home with him to Providence
because he used to go there many times and then take
a car to Hyannisport. I flew up there with him many
times. It was my recollection that he would have
liked to have run for governor, But there just
wasn't a vacancy, and it didn't look as if any
vacancy was going to occure So, as he told me,
he took on Mre Lodge at that time. It was a very
difficult decision to make, I think he would have
been stronger as a candidate for Governor; but he
went on, as you know, to earn one of the most impressive
victories in either the House or the Senate that
year, because it was a Republican year,
When he was a congressman what were your impressions

of him? Many people commented that he looked a little
REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s:

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

Sickly, thin, boyish, informal. Is this the way

he struck you?

He waspretty young at the time, and he was informal
and boyishe But he handled himself very well on the
floor. Whenever he'd get up to make a speech you
wouldn't think that he was a boy; you'd think he was
aman. He handked it as any man would.

Do you have any other recollections of any conversae
tions on these trips up to Providence, when you and
he went together?

We used to talk a great deal about sailing in the
Summertimes Two or three times I drove him to
Hyannisport, and we'd stop along the Bourne Bridges
A couple of times he met people there he knew,

He was always a great person for the water, as

you know, and he did a great deal of sailing himself,
He was'a real good athlete.

Are you a sailor yourself?

No, I'm note I'm inland a little bit in Rhode Island,
and I never had much to do with sailings

The last time I was up talking to you, I said I was
a little surprised by that picture up on the wall
that shows yourself and John Kennedy with the map
of Ireland in the background. ‘hat was taken, as

I recall, for use in the 1952 campaign?
REP. FOGARTY:

Morrissey:

REP. FOGARTY:

ed par
Yes, that was taken sometime in 1952. He came
over to my office and asked if he could have a
picture taken with me, with the map of Ireland in
the back, because,we had been working on this problem of the
unification of IrelandYat that time) And I was sure
it wouldn't do him any harm in Massachusetts, with
all the Irish that were there at that time. ‘then,
on top of that, he asked me if I'd make some speeches,
which I did for hime I made about four radio
speeches for him in the campaign, urging'ihis electione
Were you at the convention in '56 when he andKefauver
had that contest for the ViceePresidential nomination?
Yes, I was one of his soecalled "vo rhevgh, I was on
the stage most of the time, kept in daily contact with
his forces, and met with hispeople every night. We
really tried to do everything we could te get him the
nomination for ViceePresident at that time. But
you know what happened. About a day before, he was
thinking about pulling out because he didn't think he
could get the nomination. We alitota him that he
ought to stay ine But as a result of the maneuvering
én the other camp, Mr. Kefauver was selected. It's
probably a good thing he didn't get the nomination
for Vice-President because he might not have won at that

times
MORRISSEY

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY 3

==
Did it look to you, during that hectic night, that
he might actually pull it off and get the nomination?
Oh, I thought he was ine I met the Speaker of the
House, Mr. Rayburn, about a half hour before the
final votes and he told me that Texas had endorsed
Kennedy for Vice President. I thought that that
was the end. I thought that was all over when the
Speaker of the House, Mr. Rayburn, made that state-
mente It didn't happen that way.
Did you ever have any doubts in your own mind that
Rhode Island wuld not be solidly for Kennedy in the
160 convention?
Oh, noe We had a few people, I suppose, who would have
liked to have seen someone else; but ninety-nine
percent of the people are for Kennedy in Rhode Island.
As you know, we gave him the biggest percentage vote
of any state in the country in the 1960 election.
The people in Rhode Island just adore the whole Kennedy
familye

Light
He was Senator for @#f6e years while you were in the
House during those eight years. Did you have any
dealings on common legislative matters concerning

your neighboring states?

REP. FOGARTY: As far as New England was concerned, we were together

and met together at varous interludes for the good
of all Neveneland, Then, again, in the field of

health and education, he was very much interested in
MORRISSEY ¢

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY 3

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY:

—b=
these fields. He would offer an alyhendment sometimes,
and have it carried in the Senate, to increase the
appropriation in the field of health or education by
a certain number of dollars. He'd then call me to
see if I could prevail upon the House to accept and
go along with his amendment. This happened several
times, and I think we won every time,
Did you campaign for him outside the state of Rhode
Island during the '60 campaign?
No, I did note It's very difficult for anyone to
leave his own district and state . You generally
stay home and try to get reeelected yourself.
If he had asked me, I probably would have.
When I was here in your office a week or two ago,
you mentioned that you assisted John Kennedy in
nego¢iating a rather complicated relationship
between the different Irish societies in Boston?
It was just the fact that we were trying to get them
all together for him in 1952. And I think, by and
large, they all were. Sometimes they don't always
go that way in Boston, as you know; but for Kennedy
they did because he just had everything. They just
couldn't afford to be for anyone else, I don't think.

Did it take much pushing and hauling?
REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY s:

REP. FOGARTY:

-Je

No, I think that they were all persuaded that he
could wine I don't think that anybody else could
have won that election in 1952 but John Kennedye
When you were serving here in the House after he
became President, yourtnterest in health masures
and, of course, the interest of the Kennedy family

and the Kennedy Haninistration were extremely close.

A
Did you and he, while he was President, have discussions
about appropriations and other legislative
measures in this field?
He calldd me dow two or three times. I think the
most memorable one, and one of the most difficult decisions
I had to make, was in 1962, when he was trying to
get a very controversial piece of farm legislation
through the Housee It was said at the time that it
was a matter of two or three votes, one way or the
other. He called me down at five o'clock one
afternoon, and for twenty minutes I sat there and
oid ne te one of my best friends. I told him that
I hadn't voted for a piece of farm legislation in
twenty years and that I was just going along with
the way he voted when he was in the House and in
the Senate. He was the leader in this bloc# in the
Senate because he knew at the time that it wasn't
good legislation. But his answer to me was, "Well,
things are different now. I'm the President."
I said, "Yes, things are different for you, but not

for mee I'm running for election this fall."
MORRISSEY ¢

REP. FOGARTY:
MORRISSEY:
REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY

REP. FOGARTY:

Gee

He took it goodenaturedly. He never held it
against me, It's one vote I'd like to have been
able to sawe change@ for him, but I just couldn't
do ite

I understand that you supported just about every
other measure which he sent upe

Just about everything but the farm legislation.
How about the trade expansion bei!

I voted against that a few times because I thought
that state tig employment in Rhode Islland and New
England, and I still think so. I probably will
vote against * rm year, tooe glee a
In 1961 there ¥p a budget slash in the ledver

for the National Institutes of Health, You gave

out a public statement criticizing the slash, and

the President commented on it in a news conference.

Did you ever discuss thiswith him beforehand or did

he ever comment on it afterwards to you?

No, I didn't talk to him beforehand. ‘this was at

a meeting at the Statler Hotel in Washington,

Itve forgotten the exact groupe I was asled this quese
tion sa question and answer period, and I just

Said what I thought. ‘The President did release
MORRISSEY

Jee
some of these funds a few months later, though;
and I think he took some of our advice anywaye
Did you get involved in the St. Patrick Day

celebrations at the White House?

REP. FOGARTY: When he was President, I was asked to go down @

MORRISSEY 3

ae

couple of times, We always had a pretty good sized
Ste Patrick's party here for members of Congress.
It was one of the best in the country, I think,
run by Mike Kirwan of Ohiee ‘The President was
Spinkss of th, Houses Tohy
upstairs with the HousecSpeaker McCormick, myself,
and about five of us at the head table. He said to
me, "John, why don't you come over next Thursday, to
the White House. the lisbacondar is going to be there,
and why don't you come over." I said, "The reason
that I'm not coming over is because you never asked
me." He said, "I'm asking you now." So, I was ine
vited that year and the following year, and I
enjoyed it very muche
You were down at the White House fa the signing of
the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community
Mental Health Centers Construction Act of Oétober,
1963. ‘There's a picture in the outer office that

was taken on that occasiomee am I right?

REP. FOGARTY: Yed@, I have a picture on the wall of my office here
MORRISSEY :

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY 3

=~1Om
showing the signing of this bill. I think that
it was one of the most forward-looking pieces of
legislation in the field of retardation that had
ever passed the Congress. It was sponsored by the
President, himself, because he had a sincere
interest in this field. It was a pleasure to work
with him in trying to get the legislation through.
Now we're trying to make sure that we give them
every dime that they ask for under this authoriza=
tion, and we're working on that right today.
Is there anything else in regard to health kegislae
tion, medicare, federal aid to education, which you
were concerned with during the Kennedy Administration
and which we ought to put on the record here?
I can't think of anything special. We agreed on
just about everything in legislation and the field
of health and education. We both agreed that they
were the two most important fields, They affect
every human being in our country and have some effect
in world policy. Sometines I just didn't think that
they went far enough. I've been saying that for mny
years, and I'll probably say the same thing this
™ orth
How about the parochial school issue yan the general
area of federapia to education? Did you and the

President ever bat this one around?
oll]

REP. FOGARTY: We didn't see eye to eye on this one, He was

MORRISSEY s

REPe FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY :

REP. FOGARTY:

trying to be a little conservative on it. He

was trying toget a bill through Congress, and he
thought that his was the best way. But I differed
with him on this approach and thought that if
we're going to provide funds for education, we
ought to provide funds for all children, regardless
of their race, creed, or color. I still believe
that waye

Looking back on it, he was a young man who came
down to Washington as a Congressman in 1947 and
was elected President in 1960. When do you think
he focused his eye on the possibility of running
for the Presidency?

I think it was right after he got elected United
States Senator in 1952. He made such a terrific

Aank,
run against Mr. Lodge, a very popular many =+think

Z thuk f wars thtwd
thet it was during the Eisenhower landslide, that, he
started focusing his eyes on the Presidency of the
United States.
Did he ever indicate to you in any specific way
that he might be thinking along this line?
I cantt say in any specific ways He talked about
the Presidency of the United States many times,

but I never said that he was a candidate in those
MORRISSEY

REP. FOGARTY:

MORRISSEY :

olQe

dayse

Is there anything else that you think we ought to
put on record?

Not unless you have any more questions, I just
feel that he wadgne of the great men of all timese
If he had lived, he would have gone down in history
as the greatest President this country has ever
hade In fact, even on the basis of the short time
that he was allowed to serve us, I still think that
when the historians write the story about the

great Presidents, he is going to be very high on
the list. Among the Presidents I have knowne-=-

Mr. Roosevelt, Mr. Truman, and Mr. Johnsone in

my opinion, he was way ahead of everyone,

Thank you very muche