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              <p begin = "00:00:04.30" dur="03.97" style="1">[The U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare Public Health Service presents T - 1780, V - 1780, MCMLXIX]</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:08.29" dur="04.15" style="1">[A National Medical Audiovisual Center Production]</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:12.46" dur="01.62" style="1">[Celso-Ramon Garcia, M.C.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:14.10" dur="06.88" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] I am Celso-Ramon Garcia, Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Pennsylvania. </p>
              <p begin = "00:00:21.00" dur="07.49" style="1">It is my position that the oral contraceptives when prescribed, used, and supervised properly</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:28.51" dur="08.75" style="1">present the function for which they were designed with acceptable minimal morbidity.</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:37.28" dur="01.08" style="1">[Louis Lasagna, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:38.38" dur="05.40" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] My name is Louis Lasagna, I'm a clinical pharmacologist from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. </p>
              <p begin = "00:00:43.80" dur="06.79" style="1">In my opinion the unpleasant side effects and the very real hazards associated with the oral contraceptives</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:50.61" dur="08.91" style="1">are of sufficient magnitude as to constitute a real deterrent to their use as a birth control technique.</p>
              <p begin = "00:00:59.54" dur="01.43" style="1">[Sheldon Segal, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:00.99" dur="04.41" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] I am Sheldon Segal. I'm the Director of the Biomedical Division of the Population Council</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:05.42" dur="02.74" style="1">at the Rockefeller University in New York.</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:08.18" dur="06.10" style="1">I shall act as moderator of the discussion of this important and timely topic.</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:14.30" dur="01.81" style="1">[Music]</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:16.13" dur="06.86" style="1">[Concepts and controversies in modern medicine]</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:23.01" dur="08.72" style="1">[The Oral Contraceptives]</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:31.75" dur="04.45" style="1">[Host:] Welcome to the exploration of concepts and controversies in modern medicine, </p>
              <p begin = "00:01:36.22" dur="04.52" style="1">one of a series of programs dedicated to examining the uncertain,</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:40.76" dur="04.80" style="1">candidly recognizing that much of today's teaching is necessarily based upon opinion,</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:45.58" dur="04.87" style="1">and that the opinions of eminent physicians in a given field vary widely. </p>
              <p begin = "00:01:50.47" dur="04.43" style="1">The National Medical Audiovisual Center believes that openly airing such opposing views </p>
              <p begin = "00:01:54.92" dur="03.97" style="1">is a basic responsibility of medical communications.</p>
              <p begin = "00:01:58.91" dur="04.34" style="1">Dr. Sheldon Segal, Director of Population Council, Rockefeller University,</p>
              <p begin = "00:02:03.27" dur="04.36" style="1">will act as moderator of this presentation. </p>
              <p begin = "00:02:07.65" dur="03.70" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] American women are interested in oral contraceptives. </p>
              <p begin = "00:02:11.37" dur="06.26" style="1">They are using these drugs at the rate of over 2500 tons a year. </p>
              <p begin = "00:02:17.65" dur="09.24" style="1">It is estimated that perhaps one out of every three American women married between the age of 15 and 44,</p>
              <p begin = "00:02:26.91" dur="03.54" style="1">has used or is using the oral contraceptive.</p>
              <p begin = "00:02:30.47" dur="05.45" style="1">It is being prescribed by virtually every physician in the country. </p>
              <p begin = "00:02:35.94" dur="05.07" style="1">On the other hand, we are well aware of the fact that women using this drug</p>
              <p begin = "00:02:41.03" dur="10.85" style="1">are not normal with respect to many laboratory parameters of medical normalcy or of physiologic function. </p>
              <p begin = "00:02:51.90" dur="05.18" style="1">We know, for example, that several of the circulating hormones</p>
              <p begin = "00:02:57.10" dur="05.10" style="1">are not within the normal range in women using oral contraceptives; </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:02.22" dur="05.07" style="1">this refers to example to the circulating level of glucocorticoids.</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:07.31" dur="02.48" style="1">We are aware of the fact there's an evidence </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:09.81" dur="04.97" style="1">of altered carbohydrate metabolism for women using oral contraceptives,</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:14.80" dur="02.63" style="1">at least a significant percentage of them. </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:17.45" dur="02.95" style="1">There's also evidence of decreased liver function </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:20.42" dur="04.73" style="1">as evidenced by certain laboratory tests. </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:25.17" dur="06.44" style="1">How is it then, that in the face of this rather perplexing enigma,</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:31.63" dur="02.56" style="1">physicians continue to prescribe the drug </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:34.21" dur="05.32" style="1">and feel that they are doing so for the well-being of their patients? </p>
              <p begin = "00:03:39.55" dur="02.83" style="1">These are some of the issues we would like to explore.</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:42.40" dur="06.31" style="1">We will first have a statement from Dr. Garcia.</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:48.73" dur="06.43" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] The ease, convenience and utter effectiveness of the steroid contraceptive</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:55.18" dur="03.09" style="1">is universally felt to distinguish it from other forms of contraception.</p>
              <p begin = "00:03:58.29" dur="02.27" style="1">[Celso-Ramon Garcia, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:00.58" dur="05.44" style="1">Never before in the history of the world have the untoward effects</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:06.04" dur="03.56" style="1">of pharmacological agents so consistently</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:09.62" dur="06.17" style="1">and so confusingly been presented to a more sophisticated world. </p>
              <p begin = "00:04:15.81" dur="06.11" style="1">[inaudible] these issues are the fears of the unknown itself,</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:21.94" dur="07.30" style="1">criticisms from the persons opposing contraception in any form,</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:29.26" dur="03.91" style="1">and the bias of medical attitudes, </p>
              <p begin = "00:04:33.19" dur="07.62" style="1">the belief that pregnancy is good and not associated with hazards,</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:40.83" dur="05.26" style="1">and then, further, moral issues are entertained.</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:46.11" dur="07.50" style="1">Basically the education of physicians imbues him with the philosophy,</p>
              <p begin = "00:04:53.63" dur="06.68" style="1">the need, to preserve life and to avoid harmful approaches. </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:00.33" dur="07.53" style="1">This, moreover, is extended to mean that errors of omission</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:07.88" dur="06.00" style="1">are less serious, less ominous,</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:13.90" dur="05.81" style="1">than the errors and the acts of comission. </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:19.73" dur="04.71" style="1">Active contraception, because of this philosophy, </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:24.46" dur="05.14" style="1">cannot be favored openly. </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:29.62" dur="04.94" style="1">The concept of health however, must consider the composite</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:34.58" dur="05.69" style="1">of physical, mental, and social well-being,</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:40.29" dur="07.13" style="1">rather than mere absence of infirmity and disease. </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:47.44" dur="04.17" style="1">The oral contraceptive by virtue of its utter effectiveness, </p>
              <p begin = "00:05:51.63" dur="03.73" style="1">and the convenience which it entertains,</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:55.38" dur="04.20" style="1">contributes to the health of the individual,</p>
              <p begin = "00:05:59.60" dur="05.52" style="1">despite the many disadvantages that have been pointed to. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:05.14" dur="05.66" style="1">The irresponsible adverse comments about potential harmful effects</p>
              <p begin = "00:06:10.82" dur="04.92" style="1">do not contribute to the health of the individual. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:15.76" dur="04.92" style="1">Many of these accusations have been made. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:20.70" dur="07.68" style="1">Moreover, an unabated population press is also menacing. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:28.40" dur="05.82" style="1">Actions of the pill affect all body systems to a greater or lesser degree. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:34.24" dur="06.82" style="1">These actions are a resultant of the combination of the end results</p>
              <p begin = "00:06:41.08" dur="06.94" style="1">of both direct effects on target organs as well as the indirect effects, </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:48.04" dur="07.77" style="1">which are mediated by alterations induced in the endocrinologically active areas. </p>
              <p begin = "00:06:55.83" dur="04.87" style="1">The metabolic alterations that have been discussed</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:00.72" dur="03.29" style="1">and pointed to as occurring with the use of the oral contraceptives</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:04.03" dur="06.89" style="1">have all been shown to be reversible when these agents are discontinued. </p>
              <p begin = "00:07:10.94" dur="04.96" style="1">Many of the reported effects are very difficult to classify</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:15.92" dur="03.92" style="1">as to whether they are drug-induced or nondrug-induced. </p>
              <p begin = "00:07:19.86" dur="05.62" style="1">Causality and association may not be synonymous. </p>
              <p begin = "00:07:25.50" dur="07.21" style="1">The epidemiologic studies of themselves do not resolve the matter convincingly,</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:32.73" dur="05.56" style="1">Although there are massive data, there are no truly comparative studies </p>
              <p begin = "00:07:38.31" dur="03.29" style="1">nor are the statistics of sufficient validity</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:41.62" dur="06.14" style="1">to resolve the association and causality controversy with absolutism.</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:47.78" dur="04.05" style="1">Clinical judgment is very much required.</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:51.85" dur="03.82" style="1">Physicians cannot shirk their responsibility.</p>
              <p begin = "00:07:55.69" dur="08.04" style="1">They must use care and continued supervision in prescribing and in supervising</p>
              <p begin = "00:08:03.75" dur="05.26" style="1">and caring for the subjects using this form of contraception. </p>
              <p begin = "00:08:09.03" dur="11.54" style="1">There is no effective, no more effective approach to contraception that can be pointed to,</p>
              <p begin = "00:08:20.59" dur="06.18" style="1">and prevention of pregnancy must be considered an all or none principle. </p>
              <p begin = "00:08:26.79" dur="05.38" style="1">The purported risks of oral contraceptives are of small incidence,</p>
              <p begin = "00:08:32.19" dur="05.13" style="1">and by and large are outweighed by the apparent risks</p>
              <p begin = "00:08:37.34" dur="04.87" style="1">associated with pregnancy and even the toll of daily living. </p>
              <p begin = "00:08:42.23" dur="04.19" style="1">No pharmacological agent can be considered to be totally safe. </p>
              <p begin = "00:08:46.44" dur="12.59" style="1">Individuality is cherished, making an ideal contraceptive almost impossible to achieve.</p>
              <p begin = "00:08:59.05" dur="05.48" style="1">Many more effective and convenient ones are needed.</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:04.55" dur="03.10" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Dr. Lasagna, would you make your opening statement please?</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:07.67" dur="05.44" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] Yes, since the beginning of the modern era of chemotherapy, </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:13.13" dur="02.32" style="1">since the time of Paul Ehrlich, let us say,</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:15.47" dur="03.67" style="1">those interested in the development of new chemicals have been searching for magic bullets, </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:19.16" dur="02.12" style="1">[Louis Lasagna, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:21.30" dur="03.65" style="1">for drugs that would pick out the offending microorganism</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:24.97" dur="03.33" style="1">or would hit a specific organ in the body,</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:28.32" dur="04.68" style="1">and leave relatively untouched the rest of the body, </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:33.02" dur="02.54" style="1">leave the patient relatively unharmed. </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:35.58" dur="03.65" style="1">Almost without exception, perhaps without exception one should say,</p>
              <p begin = "00:09:39.25" dur="03.97" style="1">this dream of a magic bullet has not been fulfilled. </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:43.24" dur="04.25" style="1">Drugs are more like buckshot than they are like magic bullets, </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:47.51" dur="03.88" style="1">and the oral contraceptives in my opinion illustrate this beautifully. </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:51.41" dur="04.87" style="1">As has been already said, they seem to hit almost every cell in the body. </p>
              <p begin = "00:09:56.30" dur="04.89" style="1">With each passing year we have become aware of the ability </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:01.21" dur="04.69" style="1">of these chemicals to affect many parts of the body. </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:05.92" dur="04.38" style="1">We have heard of changes in the skin, changes in the hair, </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:10.32" dur="01.59" style="1">alterations in libido, </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:11.93" dur="03.54" style="1">not always in the appropriate direction.</p>
              <p begin = "00:10:15.49" dur="01.78" style="1">We've heard of changes in the liver, </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:17.29" dur="01.93" style="1">disturbances in blood-clotting,</p>
              <p begin = "00:10:19.24" dur="02.67" style="1">with thromboembolic phenomena manifesting themselves </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:21.93" dur="03.26" style="1">in various parts of the body. </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:25.21" dur="04.14" style="1">We've heard of depression apparently associated</p>
              <p begin = "00:10:29.37" dur="02.58" style="1">with some women with the use of the pill. </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:31.97" dur="03.23" style="1">We've heard of severe and excruciating migrainous headaches</p>
              <p begin = "00:10:35.22" dur="04.15" style="1">developing in some women for the first time on starting oral contraceptives. </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:39.39" dur="04.44" style="1">We are now beginning to develop more and more a fear</p>
              <p begin = "00:10:43.85" dur="06.47" style="1">of the potential for development of cancer in either the breasts or the genital tract </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:50.34" dur="05.58" style="1">in women exposed for years to these hormones. </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:55.94" dur="03.52" style="1">Now when one takes all of those reports, </p>
              <p begin = "00:10:59.48" dur="05.01" style="1">and this buckshot capacity of these powerful chemicals,</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:04.51" dur="06.45" style="1">and combines that with the knowledge that other methods of contraception are available,</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:10.98" dur="04.02" style="1">which, while are not quite as effective as the oral contraceptives, </p>
              <p begin = "00:11:15.02" dur="04.85" style="1">are nevertheless, in the hands of many women extraordinarily effective, </p>
              <p begin = "00:11:19.89" dur="05.96" style="1">I believe it irresponsible for a physician to look upon these pills</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:25.87" dur="09.72" style="1">as a method of first choice for most or all women desiring birth control.</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:35.61" dur="04.86" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Well, we have an interesting situation here in which Dr. Lasagna,</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:40.49" dur="04.61" style="1">you believe that it's irresponsible for physicians to be prescribing the pill</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:45.12" dur="02.77" style="1">as the contraceptive of first choice,</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:47.91" dur="03.59" style="1">and you Dr. Garcia, believe that it's irresponsible</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:51.52" dur="04.92" style="1">to be criticizing the potential hazards of the pill.</p>
              <p begin = "00:11:56.46" dur="05.06" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] I said not for all women as a method of first choice, </p>
              <p begin = "00:12:01.54" dur="02.94" style="1">I believe it is the method of first choice for some.</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:04.50" dur="01.70" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Right.</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:06.22" dur="05.38" style="1">I think that there probably exists a difficulty here</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:11.62" dur="07.48" style="1">in defining just what the precise position of each discussant is. </p>
              <p begin = "00:12:19.12" dur="07.71" style="1">Perhaps I could help to resolve this by asking two pointed questions, one to each of you.</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:26.85" dur="05.15" style="1">To you, Dr. Lasagna, I would ask do you believe that the oral contraceptives </p>
              <p begin = "00:12:32.02" dur="04.20" style="1">as are now being used should be withdrawn from the market?</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:36.24" dur="04.71" style="1">And to you, Dr. Garcia, do you believe that the safety of these drugs</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:40.97" dur="05.38" style="1">is adequate to permit their widespread use without medical prescription? </p>
              <p begin = "00:12:46.37" dur="01.88" style="1">Dr. Lasagna?</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:48.27" dur="01.83" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] Well, I have for some years now</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:50.12" dur="02.88" style="1">been beating the drum, trying to alert people to the possible hazards</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:53.02" dur="01.31" style="1">of the oral contraceptives.</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:54.35" dur="03.99" style="1">I have never and do not today espouse to physicians</p>
              <p begin = "00:12:58.36" dur="03.72" style="1">that these medicaments should be removed from the market.</p>
              <p begin = "00:13:02.10" dur="08.37" style="1">I think they continue to play a very important role in birth control.</p>
              <p begin = "00:13:10.49" dur="08.01" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] There is no question that the controversy that exists</p>
              <p begin = "00:13:18.52" dur="05.86" style="1">is really not as deep as it appears at first glance. </p>
              <p begin = "00:13:24.40" dur="07.02" style="1">On the one hand, it's a matter of how one weighs out the relative merit.</p>
              <p begin = "00:13:31.44" dur="04.89" style="1">There is no question that, as I indicated in my opening statement, </p>
              <p begin = "00:13:36.35" dur="04.63" style="1">that the physician cannot shirk his responsibility. </p>
              <p begin = "00:13:41.00" dur="05.94" style="1">He has to supervise his patients adequately, completely.</p>
              <p begin = "00:13:46.96" dur="03.65" style="1">He cannot just prescribe the oral contraceptive, </p>
              <p begin = "00:13:50.63" dur="07.07" style="1">nor can the oral contraceptive be dispensed over the counter, nor in slot machines. </p>
              <p begin = "00:13:57.72" dur="06.32" style="1">There are sufficient warnings from the studies and epidemiological reviews,</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:04.06" dur="03.16" style="1">and while they do not point with absolute [inaudible],</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:07.24" dur="06.04" style="1">I quite concur that these must not be left unheeded.</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:13.30" dur="05.31" style="1">One must continue to review the problem with this very much in mind. </p>
              <p begin = "00:14:18.63" dur="09.82" style="1">However, the aspect of the hazards of not taking the oral contraceptives</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:28.47" dur="02.21" style="1">and when I say not taking the oral contraceptive, </p>
              <p begin = "00:14:30.70" dur="05.48" style="1">I am really referring to not taking or not using really effective methods of family planning. </p>
              <p begin = "00:14:36.20" dur="06.63" style="1">And when you get down below six pregnancies per 100 women a year,</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:42.85" dur="06.10" style="1">you are dealing with relatively effective methods.</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:48.97" dur="04.10" style="1">Above this, and most of the methods that have been evaluated</p>
              <p begin = "00:14:53.09" dur="07.82" style="1">and not associated with the need for a physician,</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:00.93" dur="04.97" style="1">are in the category of being relatively ineffective. </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:05.92" dur="03.62" style="1">And when you're dealing with this, as I indicated also,</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:09.56" dur="09.55" style="1">the need for considering the philosophy that contraception is an all or none principle, </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:19.13" dur="03.35" style="1">when a woman comes to me she, doesn't want to be half-safe, </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:22.50" dur="03.71" style="1">she wants to have complete protection, this is what she's asking for. </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:26.23" dur="03.72" style="1">The unwanted pregnancy raises the great scepter</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:29.97" dur="02.31" style="1">[Celso-Ramon Garcia, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:32.30" dur="04.83" style="1">and I think here we have increases in maternal and fetal mortality, </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:37.15" dur="02.92" style="1">we have increases in other morbidities, </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:40.09" dur="03.71" style="1">we have increased hazard of the induced abortion itself, </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:43.82" dur="03.80" style="1">even in the best of hands there are hazards with this approach. </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:47.64" dur="04.47" style="1">There are increases in the undesirable marriages</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:52.13" dur="04.65" style="1">that might result without the availability of effective contraception. </p>
              <p begin = "00:15:56.80" dur="02.21" style="1">There are also the trauma and other features</p>
              <p begin = "00:15:59.03" dur="07.61" style="1">with regard to illegitimacy and the increase in the undesirable parental behavior</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:06.66" dur="06.55" style="1">towards the offspring, which I've seen with great frequency in our society today.</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:13.23" dur="04.83" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Dr. Garcia, I don't think there's any argument about the relative advantages</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:18.08" dur="05.41" style="1">to the woman and to the society at large derived from the use of contraception. </p>
              <p begin = "00:16:23.51" dur="06.10" style="1">I think it's sometimes unfortunate that people consider as synonyms</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:29.63" dur="03.46" style="1">contraception on the one hand and oral contraception on the other. </p>
              <p begin = "00:16:33.11" dur="04.10" style="1">Many of the benefits in terms of maternal health of which you speak</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:37.23" dur="05.37" style="1">are derived from virtually all effective contraception,</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:42.62" dur="07.35" style="1">and for women in many of our socioeconomic classes, effective contraception includes </p>
              <p begin = "00:16:49.99" dur="05.44" style="1">not only oral contraception but the intelligent use of the diaphragm,</p>
              <p begin = "00:16:55.45" dur="02.00" style="1">use of the intrauterine device, </p>
              <p begin = "00:16:57.47" dur="04.96" style="1">and in fact the intelligent use of the method of periodic abstinence. </p>
              <p begin = "00:17:02.45" dur="04.35" style="1">But I think that from the response that both of you made,</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:06.82" dur="09.80" style="1">it's clear that you have each weighed the equation of relative risk and benefit,</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:16.64" dur="06.06" style="1">and come to the conclusion that there is enough safety in the use of oral contraception</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:22.72" dur="06.70" style="1">to warrant the continuation of its use in the country. </p>
              <p begin = "00:17:29.44" dur="05.98" style="1">So let us focus now on the question of these hazards and risks, </p>
              <p begin = "00:17:35.44" dur="03.14" style="1">so that those in the audience can make their own judgments</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:38.60" dur="03.98" style="1">about this balance of the hazards on the one hand</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:42.60" dur="02.61" style="1">and the effectiveness and usefulness on the other.</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:45.23" dur="02.00" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] I'd just like to comment on...</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:47.25" dur="01.41" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Sure.</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:48.68" dur="04.09" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] Dr. Garcia's statement about women wanting 100 percent protection, </p>
              <p begin = "00:17:52.79" dur="02.74" style="1">I don't think all women want 100 percent protection,</p>
              <p begin = "00:17:55.55" dur="05.44" style="1">and I think this is one of the reasons why there is such a tremendous variability </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:01.01" dur="04.88" style="1">in the reports in the literature on the effectiveness of such things as condoms and diaphragms. </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:05.91" dur="06.67" style="1">I think the condom and the diaphragm used compulsively </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:12.60" dur="03.17" style="1">represent extraordinarily effective techniques. </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:15.79" dur="02.32" style="1">But if you're casual about their use, </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:18.13" dur="04.49" style="1">if you want a child or two sometime in the future</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:22.64" dur="05.99" style="1">and don't really care all that much whether it occurs a year from now or two years from now,</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:28.65" dur="03.72" style="1">I think one has a different approach to the use of these mechanical devices</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:32.39" dur="05.32" style="1">than the woman who has had four or five children, considers her family complete,</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:37.73" dur="05.26" style="1">and is darn likely to be compulsive about the use of these techniques. </p>
              <p begin = "00:18:43.01" dur="04.34" style="1">So that I think in the interest of individualizing our approach to these women,</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:47.37" dur="04.84" style="1">I think it would be unfortunate to give the impression that every woman wants 100 percent protection...</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:52.23" dur="02.26" style="1">[Louis Lasagna, M.D.]</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:54.51" dur="02.81" style="1">furthermore, if I can just complete my thought,</p>
              <p begin = "00:18:57.34" dur="04.31" style="1">with the oral contraceptives one doesn't have 100 percent protection,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:01.67" dur="03.33" style="1">at least not with the sequential ones, which in my experience, </p>
              <p begin = "00:19:05.02" dur="02.82" style="1">the number of anecdotal reports I've come across,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:07.86" dur="05.16" style="1">talking with patients, with obstetricians, the failure rate is significant there.</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:13.04" dur="02.58" style="1">The protection is far from complete.</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:15.64" dur="05.72" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] Well, I quite agree that one has to individualize; </p>
              <p begin = "00:19:21.38" dur="06.61" style="1">however, I again, the point that one might take at issue here,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:28.01" dur="03.52" style="1">mainly that the patient that has four or five pregnancies</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:31.55" dur="03.95" style="1">could likewise be categorized as being in the upper age group,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:35.52" dur="03.06" style="1">where she's going to fall within the category of having greater risk</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:38.60" dur="02.14" style="1">with taking the oral contraceptives. </p>
              <p begin = "00:19:40.76" dur="03.93" style="1">So it's not such a simple matter, and as a gynecologist,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:44.71" dur="02.81" style="1">I don't know what your experience is as a clinical pharmacologist,</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:47.54" dur="01.22" style="1">but as a gynecologist, </p>
              <p begin = "00:19:48.78" dur="04.22" style="1">when I query my patients they want an all or none sort of reassurance</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:53.02" dur="06.92" style="1">and very few of them elect to take sequential modalities.</p>
              <p begin = "00:19:59.96" dur="03.22" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Can we pass now to the question of the hazards themselves, </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:03.20" dur="06.48" style="1">you pointed to Dr. Lasagna's worldwide reputation as a clinical pharmacologist,</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:09.70" dur="04.05" style="1">so perhaps we should ask him about some of these issues </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:13.77" dur="04.64" style="1">that have been raised with respect to the safety of the pill. </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:18.43" dur="01.87" style="1">Let's take the cancer issue first.</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:20.32" dur="05.08" style="1">Where does that stand and what are the real facts in that situation, Dr. Lasagna?</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:25.42" dur="02.31" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] I don't think there are a lot of hard facts to go on here.</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:27.75" dur="05.22" style="1">We have a long background of experimental evidence suggesting that hormones</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:32.99" dur="04.27" style="1">can be utilized in a number of animal models</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:37.28" dur="02.91" style="1">to produce things like breast cancer, that's clear. </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:40.21" dur="05.28" style="1">The relevance of these studies to the use of these hormones</p>
              <p begin = "00:20:45.51" dur="03.24" style="1">in the variety of clinical states in which they have been used </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:48.77" dur="02.37" style="1">for a long time is unclear to me. </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:51.16" dur="04.72" style="1">I think we're beginning to have reports on certain changes </p>
              <p begin = "00:20:55.90" dur="07.48" style="1">in the cells in the cervix that make one at least worry more </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:03.40" dur="02.65" style="1">than we've been worrying in the past,</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:06.07" dur="05.13" style="1">and in my opinion at the moment the issue is an open one. </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:11.22" dur="05.23" style="1">I think with the background that we have on what these hormones can do in the laboratory,</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:16.47" dur="07.70" style="1">it would be foolish to assume that we have no worries, </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:24.19" dur="05.57" style="1">but I also would say that at the moment, the evidence implicating these oral contraceptives </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:29.78" dur="05.68" style="1">in the production of any kind of cancer is lacking. </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:35.48" dur="03.01" style="1">I think the evidence, for example, is much more compelling </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:38.51" dur="02.60" style="1">in regard to thromboembolic disease.</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:41.13" dur="09.20" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] Still for a moment on the cancer issue--on the basis of the animal work isn't it more likely that the real concern is the breast rather the cervix?,</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:50.35" dur="02.58" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] I think so, yes.</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:52.95" dur="02.87" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] And have there been any clinical observations,</p>
              <p begin = "00:21:55.84" dur="02.74" style="1">or let me put it even more fundamentally, </p>
              <p begin = "00:21:58.60" dur="04.28" style="1">has anyone actually done a study that would give us some idea</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:02.90" dur="03.43" style="1">as to whether or not there is a causal relationship?</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:06.35" dur="01.82" style="1">[Dr. Lasagnal:] I'm not aware of any. </p>
              <p begin = "00:22:08.19" dur="04.82" style="1">It's a great pity, I think, that so little attention has been paid</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:13.03" dur="04.09" style="1">to the setting up of prospective studies to monitor all these things</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:17.14" dur="05.09" style="1">that we're concerned about and that we have a hard time making definite statements about,</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:22.25" dur="03.38" style="1">because we're stuck with retrospective analysis.</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:25.65" dur="03.81" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] You've been mostly involved with this.</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:29.48" dur="07.19" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] Attempts to set up prospective studies have been, in later years, tried... </p>
              <p begin = "00:22:36.69" dur="02.36" style="1">One of the greatest difficulties, and one of the things that</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:39.07" dur="07.37" style="1">I think is new to most of the scientific world in clinical lines of investigation,</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:46.46" dur="08.43" style="1">that is to sample a denominator that is as vast as is required</p>
              <p begin = "00:22:54.91" dur="03.50" style="1">to measure small changes in the numerator, </p>
              <p begin = "00:22:58.43" dur="03.10" style="1">is indeed a task that I don't know if it would ever be accomplished</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:01.55" dur="02.43" style="1">or not with reference to the oral contraceptives. </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:04.00" dur="03.89" style="1">There's so many other factors that come into the bias of selection and the like,</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:07.91" dur="07.64" style="1">that it's difficult to do this, and what's more to try to have a truly controlled population</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:15.57" dur="06.18" style="1">that is not using the steroid contraceptive [inaudible] is likewise very difficult</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:21.77" dur="02.58" style="1">because the steroid contraceptive group feel more compelled</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:24.37" dur="03.81" style="1">because of the adverse [inaudible] to come back to be seen more frequently. </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:28.20" dur="04.57" style="1">While those on other techniques are much more difficult to follow</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:32.79" dur="05.16" style="1">and this has been one of the greatest pitfalls that we've had in trying to arrange for prospective studies. </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:37.97" dur="01.49" style="1">I don't know how to get around that.</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:39.48" dur="02.70" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] But I think that there are good epidemiologic methods</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:42.20" dur="03.01" style="1">to account for this bias or to take it into account</p>
              <p begin = "00:23:45.23" dur="01.88" style="1">in setting up the design of the study. </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:47.13" dur="05.09" style="1">But let me turn to another issue, </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:52.24" dur="06.30" style="1">I think the one that has been most firmly established among the possible serious consequences </p>
              <p begin = "00:23:58.56" dur="05.86" style="1">of the use of oral contraception has been the epidemiologic studies and indications </p>
              <p begin = "00:24:04.44" dur="07.05" style="1">of an increased risk of thromboembolic disease associated with the use of the drug. </p>
              <p begin = "00:24:11.51" dur="04.29" style="1">In studies both in Britain, and now on the basis of the recent report by</p>
              <p begin = "00:24:15.82" dur="04.59" style="1">the Advisory Committee of Obstetrics and Gynecology of the Food and Drug Administration </p>
              <p begin = "00:24:20.43" dur="02.95" style="1">confirmed here in the United States.</p>
              <p begin = "00:24:23.40" dur="05.94" style="1">Can you tell us how that stands and what your view of that issue is, Dr. Garcia?</p>
              <p begin = "00:24:29.36" dur="09.72" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] I...there is a strong warning that this presents.</p>
              <p begin = "00:24:39.10" dur="05.75" style="1">I don't know that this conclusively proves that there is a cause and effect relationship,</p>
              <p begin = "00:24:44.87" dur="06.02" style="1">and I think that as I indicated previously, epidemiologic reviews will not do this. </p>
              <p begin = "00:24:50.91" dur="11.11" style="1">We're still lacking many of the mechanisms to explain the occurrence of these thromboembolic and other effects,</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:02.04" dur="07.85" style="1">and until this gap has been bridged to demonstrate the mechanism of action that will produce the effect,</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:09.91" dur="03.46" style="1">we still will not have a cause and effect relationship,</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:13.39" dur="05.50" style="1">but nonetheless these studies are very carefully designed</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:18.91" dur="04.50" style="1">and performed according to sound epidemiologic principles,</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:23.43" dur="04.97" style="1">and consistently, although with different variants of incidence and points of comparison. </p>
              <p begin = "00:25:28.42" dur="08.36" style="1">We have a concurrence with all of the studies indicating an association between the use of oral contraceptives </p>
              <p begin = "00:25:36.80" dur="01.69" style="1">and the occurrence of thrombophlebitis, </p>
              <p begin = "00:25:38.51" dur="08.88" style="1">and also consistently that risk is seen greater in the older age group than the younger age group.</p>
              <p begin = "00:25:47.41" dur="06.70" style="1">[Dr. Lasagna:] May I comment on the quality of the evidence linking the contraceptives to...oral contraceptives to clotting, </p>
              <p begin = "00:25:54.13" dur="03.10" style="1">one thing I know something about is the difficulty of linking drugs </p>
              <p begin = "00:25:57.25" dur="03.51" style="1">to side effects that are said to be associated with them.</p>
              <p begin = "00:26:00.78" dur="07.83" style="1">But in my opinion, the evidence on this point is so good as to be very compelling,</p>
              <p begin = "00:26:08.63" dur="03.58" style="1">at least it's so much better than we usually have for other drugs </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:12.23" dur="01.83" style="1">that I think one can't ignore the evidence. </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:14.08" dur="03.55" style="1">The evidence exists in my opinion, not only in the form of epidemiologic data, </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:17.65" dur="02.71" style="1">but in the clotting studies that have been done,</p>
              <p begin = "00:26:20.38" dur="02.88" style="1">which in almost all instances have shown a change in women taking these pills </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:23.28" dur="02.26" style="1">in the direction of increased clotting. </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:25.56" dur="03.38" style="1">The peculiar distribution of some of these clots that they're seeing, </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:28.96" dur="05.00" style="1">women coming in with clots in the veins of their arms, a most unusual phenomenon. </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:33.98" dur="02.19" style="1">Clots in the vertebral arteries in young women, </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:36.19" dur="03.39" style="1">a most unusual neurological picture, and then the challenge cases, </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:39.60" dur="03.89" style="1">the women who develop recurrent thrombophlebitis each time they're given the pill. </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:43.51" dur="01.04" style="1">There aren't a lot of those,</p>
              <p begin = "00:26:44.57" dur="05.92" style="1">but there are enough I think to represent a legitimate challenge type of evidence.</p>
              <p begin = "00:26:50.51" dur="04.78" style="1">[Dr. Garcia:] But this sort of bizarre type of location of thromboembolic phenomenon is not new, </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:55.31" dur="03.15" style="1">it's just that it hasn't been focused attention on in association </p>
              <p begin = "00:26:58.48" dur="02.88" style="1">with the use of oral contraceptives, number one, </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:01.38" dur="07.26" style="1">and secondly we have to also consider that...</p>
              <p begin = "00:27:08.66" dur="06.79" style="1">[Dr. Segal:] I'm afraid, Dr. Garcia, I'm not going to let you finish your thought because our time is up. </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:15.47" dur="01.87" style="1">In the few seconds left to us,</p>
              <p begin = "00:27:17.36" dur="04.97" style="1">I'd like to attempt a brief summary of this discussion. </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:22.35" dur="04.01" style="1">It seems to me that we have reached a consensus</p>
              <p begin = "00:27:26.38" dur="06.05" style="1">that this is a type of medication that does involve risk. </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:32.45" dur="04.27" style="1">Both participants agree that the risk is not so great </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:36.74" dur="04.43" style="1">to warrant removal of these drugs from the physician's armamentarium. </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:41.19" dur="02.71" style="1">I think that both agree also, however, </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:43.92" dur="05.07" style="1">that when these drugs are used, they must be used under very careful supervision </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:49.01" dur="06.30" style="1">and although the point wasn't raised I feel confident that both would agree </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:55.33" dur="03.78" style="1">that the labeling instructions required </p>
              <p begin = "00:27:59.13" dur="05.25" style="1">by the Food and Drug Administration should be adhered to very strictly. </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:04.40" dur="08.74" style="1">As with all drugs, there is a question of relative risk versus relative advantage in determining safety. </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:13.16" dur="02.54" style="1">On that basis and by that definition,</p>
              <p begin = "00:28:15.72" dur="02.78" style="1">it seems that there is an element of safety </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:18.52" dur="09.98" style="1">sufficient for continuation of the use of oral contraceptives.</p>
              <p begin = "00:28:28.52" dur="05.04" style="1">[Host:] We thank Dr. Celso-Ramon Garcia, Dr. Louis Lasagna, and Dr. Sheldon Segal </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:33.58" dur="04.13" style="1">for their interesting analysis of a critical problem in patient care. </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:37.73" dur="07.19" style="1">In subsequent programs, we shall continue to record equally significant concepts and controversies in modern medicine, </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:44.94" dur="03.86" style="1">The opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily constitute endorsement </p>
              <p begin = "00:28:48.82" dur="06.14" style="1">by the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, the Public Health Service or its constituents.</p>
              <p begin = "00:28:54.98" dur="00.49" style="1">[Music]</p>
              <p begin = "00:28:55.49" dur="05.62" style="1">[Celso-Ramon Garcia, M.D., Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania]</p>
              <p begin = "00:29:01.13" dur="08.46" style="1">[Louis Lasagna, M.D., Associate Professor of Medicine and of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine]</p>
              <p begin = "00:29:09.61" dur="06.38" style="1">[Sheldon Segal, M.D., Director, Population Council, Biomedical Division, Rockefeller University]</p>
              <p begin = "00:29:16.01" dur="07.08" style="1">[concepts and controversies in modern medicine]</p>
              <p begin = "00:29:23.11" dur="350.49" style="1">[The End, T-1780, V-1780, MCMLXIX]</p>
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